interesting is music manifests itself in some way different ways. not all composers can blame their instruments very well. and not all instrumentalists compose, and there are for rangers that do not play or compose. you would not say that they are not musical. then you have all of these people who are musical experts, disk jockeys, film supervisors, and they have what we would call musical sensitivity, but it manifests itself in so many different ways, the hunt for a gene is complicated by that. if you are looking for a gene that might give you blond hair, that manifests itself in different ways, but more less is blond hair. musicality is 10 or 12 different things. and to become a great musician requires different personalities. you have to be willing to sit in a room off for hours on end practicing, that kind of

willpower, and you have to have a belief in yourself, certainly, for the first few years of musical training, it does not sound very good. you have to believe it has to amount to something. all of these things come together which complicates the search for a jeanne. >> i certainly lost a lot of hours in my life. >> how many hours a day would you -- would you say you play? >> it depends. it could be none, five minutes, four, five hours. when i am preparing for something, i still get pretty lost. i could sit there for two hours without looking up too much, thinking about where i am. >> before i go to question, i wonder if you could indulge us and play the intro to my favorite song of yours "crossway."

>> i will try. it has been awhile. ♪ [applause] >> thank you. >> questions?

>> thank you for that. that was great. i have a question, two-sided. when you play a piece like that, when we feel -- hear music, we feel the emotion. why does music trigger in motion? what is going on? let me take that -- >> let me take that. that is an interesting question. that is really the big question in cognitive neuroscience. it is not at all sounds are music. we do not put on records of chickens clucking, waterfalls falling, some of us do, but the real music come from this arrangement of organized sound we call music. i have to say, we do not really know. the closest we have got is music appears to be metaphorical for movement and instruments sometimes sound like a mother

singing, crying. and the only thing we know for sure is that music is activating a lot of regions in the brain. i think the best explanation that i will propose now, tentatively, as it has to do with expectation and release. when we hear a piece of music, because it has a pulse, we almost always know when the next bibelot be, but we do not know what it will be. the job of the composer is to reward us by playing what we expect, but violating those expectations just often enough of the time to keep us interested. when the composer can violate those expectations in an interesting way and give us a resolution that we would have never predicted, then they have got us for life. the brain love learning new things, taught something, and music is, in effect, teaching us

something. there is another way to finish this phrase. that may get that burst of dopamine that goes -- yeah! >> earlier, you said that when we listen to music we activate a pleasure center in our brain. what is happening when we listen to music that we dislike? >> there is a structure called the amygdala, which is the fear center of the brain. that is activated when we hear music that we do not like. one of the people -- things that people report most that they hate most is when they hear music that they do not like and cannot change it. it is high on the list of most noxious stimulate. we find a subversive, the amygdala kicks in, and it makes you want to run and scream. like the 20th time you heard that brittany -- britney spears

song. >> you talked about going from a more intuitive style to more analytical, conscious. was that intuitive on its own? could you flesh that out a little bit? >> i think that was a bit of necessity. i was asked to put together a collection of my transcriptions in 1990. it was the first time that i had to sit down and transcribe all my music. until then, i had done it in my head. i learned things so fundamental that i did not know i was doing. sometimes i did not realize that there were extra beats, i would change the meter for two bars. in that process, i learned a lot. also, of teaching. when you start to teach, you have to think about what you're doing so you can explain it to somebody else in a meaningful way.

i think it was that process of having to write and transcribe music that made me aware that you can analyze something, to benefit, but one needs to be careful that the analytical side does not wipe out the initial impulse to write music. >> there is that famous story where a music ecologist told john lennon that he ended a song in an alien cadence, and he says, i did? this program is provided by the commonwealth club in forum. tonight we are presenting music. i am here with alex degrassi, a grammy award winning guitarist. we will continue with audience questions. >> you mentioned in your book, and right now, music has a

pulse. i wonder what you think or know happens in the brain when music is disjointed, bad. how about classical music? >> one of the things -- whether you know it or not, whether you are a musician or not -- your brain is trying to predict what is or to come next, just like in speech. if i was going to say, the pizza was too hot to sleep, your brain is surprised because it had a prediction of what was going to come. a skillful physician will break it up harmonically, totally, or rhythmically, and when it becomes hard to predict, it becomes a game. what is your feeling about that? you do a lot of rhythmic changes. >> one of the things that i do a fair amount of -- maybe the

question is asking, for example -- you have a piece of music, there is a rhythmic feel, maybe there is a break, a cadence, maybe it is played differently for a certain period. there is still a flow, as a musician, that you're looking for, to convey. sometimes it seems abstract. i would imagine the brain is also starting to calculate what that flow is. if i am playing along going -- 1, 2, 3, 4 -- >> the brain has to recalibrate. >> the brain is trying to figure it out. >> it is just like in gauging the audience. when i lower my voice like this, i am engaging you because you have to work harder to see what is going on. composers have a variety of tricks in the tool box, and that is one of them.

>> thank you. i would like to acknowledge this book, thank you for doing the research, putting into written form. the chapter that deals with anticipation, which you have been talking about, reflects a particularly western approach. the eastern, buddhist -- a different approach, the genre of music that i have been involved, developing some brain wave research with that -- seems to solicit other kinds of responses. have you looked at other types of music that gets into these spaces between the tones, opens up that quantum field aspect? >> the question about other music is an interesting one. one thing i can say about music of other cultures, each of us is exquisitely attuned to the conventions and rules of our own

culture, such that we can hear a chord sequence, we can pretty much nail down what the motion is intended to be. but if i put on chinese opera, indigenous music of the ural mountains, i will probably not have a clue about it, and they will not have much of a clue about our music. things that we take for granted. major accord being happy, minor chords being said. it is the same as language. we understand the ones we are exposed to. there is a critical period during the first 12 years of life, one needs to be acculturated to those types of music. there are people in the field -- stay tuned -- we will have news about them soon. >> my question is how our brain remembers music. is it processed differently,

stored differently than other types of memories? i ask that because, i can remember songs that i sang in second grade but i cannot remember my teacher's name, my friends. >> a lot of that have that experience. women go to old age homes, some of the last member is preserved in the elderly, even with alzheimer's, other decay, they remember songs from their childhood when they cannot even remember their spouse's name, what year it is. music has thiese musically reinforcing views. in a good piece of music, you have the elements of rhythm, pitch, harmony, meter, articulation, timbre, all working together, so that you may not remember every note, but the ones you do remember inform the missing ones. it becomes a pattern of multiple

queues. that is one thing. the other thing we found interesting from girl imaging studies -- narrow imaging studies is when you are remembering a piece of music, it activates almost identical circuits as when you are hearing it. so much so when you compare the bring activation of someone in imagining music, remembering, to someone listening, it is virtually indistinguishable by looking at the brain scan. i wonder -- and brings up the question, how did it would you say your musical imagery is? when you imagine music, is it like a little tape playing in your head? >> yes, it is. and it works the other way, from the point of view from the composer, trying to compose something. i might be sitting on an airplane and i will remember some experience.

let's say running with anticipation, or something you saw. maybe you saw something spectacular, an illusion of light or something, and it creates an image. i will try to read something done quickly because i am trying to capture one that is. and of course, that stuff is very fleeting. the other thing, musicians who played the guitar, something with your fingers, they feel as if they are remembering in their fingers. oftentimes, you play a passage and you cannot think your way through it. your fingers have to play the way through it. muscle memory. from a scientific standpoint, if i were to scoop your brain out of your head, your fingers would not remember, but there is a motor cortex that remembers the

sequence. there is a whole field that studies the sequence, how one movement is remembered in a succession of a sequence. >> the process of creating, trying to start creating music is not that different for me that it is remembering music. it is revoking some kind of image or movement. -- evoking some kind of image or movement. >> can i ask, i am a musician, do you have any advice -- often have trouble losing -- moving away from my everyday and getting into music. do you have any recommendations on how to speed up that context switching? >> i am assuming that as a professional musician, he

doesn't have to do with complicated problems. >> you would not want me doing that. believe me. >> still, you have the context switch of being creative, non creative. >> that is true. sometimes you need something to wipe the slate clean. it could be taking a walk. these days, disconnecting. i have a studio. when i go there, is a place to work, i did not need to take my cell phone out there. having a physical location you can go to -- this is where i do this -- even just a quarter of your room. >> from a cognitive neuroscience standpoint, if you dedicate a place, if you are religious about it -- or clock 30 i am going to spend an hour -- 4:30 i'm going to spend an

hour here or there. that contextual aspect helps. inform is now wrapping up all of our events by asking our speakers, ourselves included, the following question. alex, what is your 60-second the idea to change the world? >> i think everybody should listen to music from other cultures. even daniel has said that, you know, we need to have that in printing when we are young to understand balinese monkey chants or something to put it into context. i travel a lot. i just came back from asia. i was given a lot of career in music, a lot of ethnic music -- a lot of korean music.

even though you may not have a cultural context, if you give it a little bit of a chance, it is an opportunity to open up your mind a little bit. when you do that, it may on sub -- some subconscious level give you a better understanding of why people are the way they are in different parts of the world and who they are. i think we should all be listening to each other's music and all try to play a little bit of music or sing. i think it is -- yeah. 60 seconds there? [applause] >> and you, daniel, what is your 60-second idea? >> as an educator and teacher, i think my 60-second idea to change the world is better education. if we could teach the next generation of kids to be critical thinkers, just not accept what they are told but to decide for themselves, to give them the tools to make informed

decisions about what is right and what is not, about what has been established and what is just here say, what really has a grounding in fact versus rumor, i think the world would be a much safer, more peaceful, and more prosperous place. [applause] >> let's get a big, final round of applause for this nice, informed foray into neuroscience and music with myself, daniel levinson, and the great guitarist and composer, alex degrassi. now, this meeting of in forum and the commonwealth club is adjourned. [applause]

>> cents and cisco's buses and trains serve many writers -- san francisco buses and trains serve many riders. the need to be sure they can get off at their intended stop.

the digital voice announcement system, which announces upcoming stops, can help these low vision riders know where they are, but only if set properly. >> it is a wonderful piece of technology, but in practice, it is a little bit more tricky. oftentimes, i find that the automatic announcement system is turned off or turned down so low that i'm unable to hear it, or it is turned up so high that the sound is distorted. >> most of the time, it does not ever seemed to be on. or is it is, it is a really quiet. occasionally, it is so loud that it is distorted. >> driver, may i have california st., please? >> no problem. >> whenever the announcement system does not work properly and a driver does not call out the stops, and i'm totally lost as to where i am. the announcement system calls

out the stops, but to help the customer, i caught the destination, transfer points, and requested stops. and it is the law. >> i use the p a system to make sure everyone on the bus here is my announcements. >> i have had both experiences with the loudness and the to stop for the announcements. you are never going to have it exactly balanced for every trip because your level of noise changes. the announcement system ranges from 1 to 10. 10 would be too loud, a little distorted. eight is a good number. not too loud, but loud enough for everyone to hear and understand what is going on. >> i think bus drivers might not be aware of the fact that if you let a visually impaired person off at the wrong stop, number one, they may be absolutely unfamiliar with the area they are in. >> the driver overshot the stock that i wanted. i decided to get off and find my

way back, but it was very disorienting, not exactly understanding how far i was. number 2, it might be a potentially dangerous situation if they do not know the area and are attempting to make crossings that they are unfamiliar with. >> they let me off somewhere else. i had no idea where i was. i missed the stop, and the bus was gone. then, i look around. i tried to find someone to help me, and i cannot find anybody. i would have no way of knowing where i am at. >> [inaudible] i asked why he did not stop when i asked. we did not panic. we do not know where we are. we do not know what is going on. i get over there, and right

away, i almost got killed. >> #3, it's the person in question is trying to get somewhere, it is going to make them late for whatever they are doing. >> i had to find my way to a corner and ask someone where i was going to and how to get there. i eventually made it to my appointment, which was with social security, but i was very late, and they almost did not see me. >> i was very late former doctor's appointment, and there was concern about whether or not i could be fit in. >> when i get off i stock that is unfamiliar to me, because i have no sight, i cannot just automatically orient myself off to a new environment. it takes a lot of training, a lot of work. there are a lot of skill sets involved when i am first introduced to a new area. to get off at an unfamiliar bus stop for the first time and to do it unintentionally -- it can

be a really disorienting experience. >> i think there is a sense that it is ok, that person is going to find their way, and did they do not know where they are, you are potentially putting them in a seriously dangerous situation. >> i always appreciate when the drivers are proactive in asking questions like, "where do you want to get off?" i appreciate when they help find a seat for me. i also appreciate when everything is working properly as far as the voice announcement system. they make sure that it is turned on, that it is loud enough for everyone to hear, not turned down so low that it helps no one. >> excuse me, driver, what stocks are we at? can you remind me when we get to venice and broadway? thanks. >> what we're talking about here

is full participation and inclusion. i want to be able to lead a full life. the only way that i'm able to get from place to place this by using a fully accessible public transit system like meany -- muni. >> the americans with disabilities act of 1990 is a wide-ranging federal civil- rights law that prohibits discrimination against persons with disabilities. title two of the ada addresses access to public services, including public transportation for persons with disabilities. it requires transit operators to call out stops at transfer points, major intersections, and major destinations, and to announce particular stocks requested by customers with disabilities. stop announcements are especially important for passengers who are blind or have

low vision. these individuals cannot travel independently if they are not assured of getting off at their intended destination point. i would like to start with an opening prayer. please stand if you are able. remove your hats. creator grandfather, we come this day and we are humble two- leggeds.

we give thanks to you on this wonderful day. give thanks to be able to gather and honor our own, remember our veterans, those that have passed on, those that are still serving abroad, our men and women in uniform. a moment of silence for corporal ware, my cousin. we know that no war is a good war. as native people, we have always supported our troops, creator. we know that to be true. bring them home safely and we pray for their families.

their loved ones. we pray for everyone here in attendance, safe travel. we asked for blessings upon the food, the hand that created the food which we are about to partake. remember our young ones, our young ones not yet born. we give thanks and praise to their families. we remember our four-legged, the fish. we remember our elders, our young ones this day, and i believe we say these things in your name.