the no no boys were rejected by the japanese community? i can understand if they said that they did not want to -- if they answered no no that the caucasian community would reject them, but i'm not sure where the japanese community rejected them. i felt like they were making a stand for the community. >> i think what's happened in the last 15 or 20 years as we've looked back on history and the community has looked back on it, it's able it look at these characters in a different light, through a different lens. they are seen now in people who in their own ways made heroic choices. at the time, again, i didn't live through it, but my sense is in having talked to people, the 422nd battalion, these people went out and they were killed in very high rates.

these were your fathers and brothers. i think it by and large was true, they were trying to prove that they deserved to be americans, it prove to the country that we belonged here, that we didn't belong behind these barbed wire fences. and they did. they did that and they paid with their blood. i think that was sort of the general feeling of the community. our brothers, our fathers, our uncles, our sons, paid with their blood, literally, not figuratively, literally, so that we could be americans and live our lives and get out of camp and just go about our ways. so i think it's because it was such a heightened state and so much like -- to do with life and death that those who -- and they were in a minority who had signed no no were treated as if they had, in fact, kind of turned on their own people.

their brothers went off to war and died trying to prove we were loyal and here you did something which made us look disloyal. here you did something which made us look bad. so as a consequence of your bad behavior, maybe more boys had to die. maybe we had to work even harder. but i think it was because of the extreme circumstance of the time and the stakes were incredibly high that you did have a community that looked at these men as if they had, in fact, turned against their own community and had worked against those who had served and died. and that was the case. i know it's still a problem now. i have a friend who is a no no boy and he talks about how, even now, 60-something years later, there are people in the community who won't talk to him

because he was a no no boy. but, again, it's through the lens of present day politics, how we've begun to look at the events and studied them that the resistors from heart mountain who were another group who on constitutional grounds contested being -- serving. they refused to serve, as opposed to the no no boys, who signed no no. the resistors actually went to federal prisons. they went to leavenworth. they are now looked at and studied and interviewed in a much different light, even though in the community itself there is still strong feelings and deviciveness about how they should be viewed. a lot of my research was pulled from the no no boys and resistors was pulled from the japanese american national museum. my wife and i went down there and they have on file a bunch of interviews with people, frank ami, a variety of folks who were part of the heart

mountain resistors and also the no no boys. these interviews were done by frank chen, frank abe and other folks and they are all on file. i used those to make sure i created real live characters. hope that answers the question. >> who else wants to ask a question? . >> when you do research, are you able to compare the (inaudible). >> i have to admit i haven't done as much research into that area because there were germans also who went through the same thing and no i didn't. that certainly is a story that should be looked into. i know in my early works, a character would say why didn't they do this to the germans and italians but at the time i wrote this play, i wasn't aware that the other things were going on in the country also.

so i don't know a lot about that. . >> is there any one or any group that you studied in particular for your sort of art piece japanese artist character? . >> no, but i feel like i sort of have it inside of me, my body, that i've actually played this type of character in one of my films where he wears very odd glasses and has a bow tie and fashions himself as a bit of an intellectual. he actually represents a kind of character that you do find in the community and in communities, someone who is sort of outside of it, marginalized, who is part of the community yet he's never fit in. he's a bachelor. his interests are very

un-japanese american. he can't find relationships with a female, he's been introduced by the marriage broker and it doesn't work. but in fact his character, if he were in present-day society, he would be gay. it's sort of interesting and in fact the character whom i wrote it for, gregory wallace, is a gay actor. it's sort of interesting, francis jew, who plays him now, is gay. but you have a type of character who at a particular point in history had to sort of play out a different role but if he were in present day society, he would be, you know, gay and living life and going about his business. so that is sort of interesting about that character. . >> yes, gentleman here. . >> do you think with all the writing and examination of

relocation camps that the country has actually learned from the experience, what it's done to the extent that it wouldn't happen again? . >> like arab americans? you know, i'd like to think i could say yes, but i would think not. though in fact there is more information out there and more people know about the internment camps than ever before, it certainly seems evident to me that at least in certain like individual cases it's still going on and that, you know, certainly after post-911 in relationship to arab and muslim americans, gee. but my response would be i don't think we have learned,

unfortunately. . >> i think we have time for one more question. >> i think this is a great subject but because of the education, we have so much (inaudible) i think so many people have no idea of what happened in the internment and at least we're talking. >> well, you know what's interesting is the exhibit and the project that ruth was talking about, and that's upstairs and which i participated in, what made it so moving was the idea that you had young san francisco students who were not japanese american, who were african american, who were a variety of

folks who were aware of the experience and in some way were making it part of their own life, exactly what we're talking about. how do you make something that happened 65 years ago relevant to young people today so that there is something to be learned from it, that there is something that can be taken from it. that's what's so interesting about the exhibition. it's called if they came for us today -- am i saying it correctly? if they came for me today? which is a great, great title. that accomplishes that. because that's the key to me, how do you take an event that happened 65 years ago that was so important in terms of american history -- that's the thing, it's such a critical moment where the constitution was really tested. how do you keep it relevant in terms of its history to today and make sure that in some way it's related to cases like the aaron watata case or what

happens after post-911? that to me is the tricky thing is how do you keep it alive and my hope is with the play that in some way it takes an incident, an event that happened, at least in my case it's 1948, the story that i tell, that it has relevancy to today in terms of how people can get along with each other. the most basic terms, ultimately can people from different backgrounds really get along with push comes to shove. when bottom lines are drawn, can you in fact make that bridge and get across that, quote, racial and cultural divide that is so, so deeply embedded in those of us who live in this particular generation. i feel like my generation, i have lived in a world that is so racialized that as much as intellectually i'd lake to think of a society where all of us could just be, i can't see it in my own head.

when i look at younger folks and how they interact and how they go about their way and their life, i have hope. but certainly in my own sort of generation, in my life line, my timeline, my lens of the country is very much a highly racialized one. >> thank you for coming and thanks very much to phillip.[mu

>> good afternoon i'd like to begin. thank you and welcome to todays performance of dacugo in english. as most of you know is a

comical one man story telling that uses very limited stage set and instruments and thus it's a japanese tradition performing arts that requires special and traditional and highly trained skills. >> today's story. the hunter. 300 decadesing an in japan there was a man who liked hunting. he told a lie to a bird. or a small light. small harrons make good friends or not. you might find the answer in my story. >> good afternoon. what are you up to these days anything exciting? yes, i have an idea.

>> are you going to be the hunter in >> you told on me you're going to be unicorn hunter. it's a kind of snake kind of hunt er japan. you ever seen them. it was a stupid idea. just the one. the japanese proverb says. my prompt cart. please listen. okay. go ahead. i go to where many harrons come to feed. i walled out to one of him in a

loud voice like this. [yelling] hello mr. onin. what will the herring think? well i wonder what he wants. i understand he wants to capture me. well, what should i do. no. i can get away easy any time but i think silly man. i don't know this him and so just before he catches me. i can escape. this is going to be fun. i need to get closer to him and

call word to him. hello mr. harold will think. i need to get closer and closer to the herring and call to him in this way. hello mr. herring. the herring will think. that is strange, if you want to catch me, why is he getting further away. i don't understand. do you under stand? actually i'm going to be getting closer and closer to the herring and i make my voice smaller and smaller, so the herring will think i'm going

away. it's very interesting and what will happen next. i sneak up just behind the herring and i say, what. what will you say? i can't hear anything. >> that's idea i make my voice smaller until i make no sound at alright. so the herring will think, he's gone. well, no fun today i guess but any way i am safe. and at that moment i capture him. what do you think of my wonderful idea. great. very good. very interesting. i'd like to see you try it. thank you and can you suggest a

good place to catch and find many snow herrings. sure. into the temple. why don't you go there. thank you. i go now. going into the temple, the temple gate is closed for the night and the temple wall is too high for me to climb over. i have to look for away inside, okay. what is he doing but to leaning against the wall. it must have been a gardener that left this.

okay. i use this. i found many snow herrings. they were all sleeping. each of them standing on one skinny leg. so, i will capture them. wait. wait. wait. i know. snow herrings are very expert so take your time to watch them. so, watching them. they're sleeping.

[snoring] i don't need to use my wonderful idea. i won't have to call out to them at all. i just go. [snickering quietly] they're still sleeping. how can i get it done. i should have brought a big bag or something like that.

any way i just put his head - and then then stash him in my kimono. i can't get in front of them. easy. this is a big hour. my next victim. [snickering quietly] next. bet i capture 150. my body is full of many herring.

[laughing] where is my robe. it's missing. a temple god must have taken my ladder away. the man started pacing back and forth wondering how to get down. so, the sunlight made one of the birds wake up. bird:i can't breathe. so i must be catching a bad cold. i drank too much, saki rice wine last night. was a little tipsy. i don't remember.

any way. think can't move. someone is leaning on me so who is it. my cousin. my brother. we've been got by a hunter. hey! my cousin, wake up. no. not a good morning. we've been caught by a hunter. pass the word but be quiet okay. okay. wake up, wake up, wake up. wake up. wake up.

wake up. wake up. wake up. wake up. hey! did you wake up? we've been caught by a hunter. right. i got a good plan. just do what i say. at the count of three, you flap your wings as hard as you can. right? 1, 2, 3 - flapping! i can't move. [help me screaming] very good. whoa. i'm going high.

very good. wow. what is that. the lake. not the lake. big river. wow. what? many bridges. the bridge is very old. so, don't go plenty more all right. so. this is a real birds eye view. very good. someone is flying like me. i remember his face in my japanese history book. his real name is,foto shim. hi. good to see you. so, many

messengers down there. so, they are waiving you. why are they waiving me. to take me. the end of my life. i'm dying now. oh, my god. so, any way i don't want to - that the river. must be the sticks i don't want to cross the sticks and die because i have no money. so, six months for currency in japan. cost of six bucks. i have no money so see you later. hey! so go to this.

go to the east. [birds chirping] any way i'm safe as long as i still with birds. okay. wow. what's that coming towards me. okay. i should grab it. a kind of pole. hey, hey! i'm safe. so, any way, let's get to the - got to get out of here. go. get out of here. where am i?

whoa this morning the sunrise is very beautiful. that mountain. i'm still in japan. wow i'm lucky. and there's a place to the temple gate. oh, it's my neighborhood. very lucky. so, where is the five story building. there's the point and this is the main hall and there it is. i'm on the top of the story, tabernacle. i'm in trouble. how am i going to get down.

what's that? where? on the top of the temple? it's a bird. no. i don't think so. i think it's a man. [laughing] no one could climb up - climb - up. [singing] something is happening in the temple. whoa what's that. i think it's a performer. i think it's