tectonic shifts are under way in this country. hope is not a policy. policy is a wonky word. hope needs a story, a narrative. here is what is going on in this country. president obama now is speaking more forcefully about what he wants to do it and against smoking out those who are obstructing. this is really wonky. anyway, i think one of the most exciting things are the movements of our times. i closed this book out before occupy. i wrote about wisconsin. our correspondent was there for

57 days. that was about occupying the state house. occupy has become a brand. it has also become e ncampments. soon it will need to be more than a space and a place. it will need to go to state houses, occupy banks, occupy congress. take the movement energy into those stairs -- spheres with the ideas matter of the heart of occupy. >> winter is coming. cities like san francisco and oakland and other cities are closing down the encampments and chasing people off. you can drive 90 miles from

davis and pepper spray. it is hard to maintain people's attention for long periods of time. i am wondering -- should they be occupying the supreme court? [applause] >> i was talking about that today. with all respect for putting your body on the line which captivated the imagination in the beginning, it now needs to be less about states and place -- spaces and places and more about going to wear in justice -- injustice is. there are plans to occupy the supreme court from the second anniversary of the citizens united decision. that crazy decision has given the rights to corporations to

unleash their treasuries into our already polluted political system. go there. go to your local congresspersons office. go to banks charging student loans up the highest rates. go to those places. i think we will see more of that. occupy congress means not only closing out the super committee. it also means finding movement candidates who will run in the electoral office. this is where people get ammocete -- antsy because they say you are taking over the energy of the occupy movement. we need good people to run. >> union unity of purpose if you are going to get anything done. my wife and i ran at an event for gloria steinem recently. -- you need unity of purpose if

you are going to get anything done. they were chanting about the notion that the occupy movement is male-century. -- male-centric. they had a chance that that it t mean 99% men. you have people rending this garment of unity. >> you always find there are divisions. we have written about the fact that the camp in bloomington was run by women. the unity is around a core messages of the movement. the leadership of a movement

drives people batty. where are the leaders? it is more of a leader-less movement and the new left was when you have a lot of gusy in power. it is not one place. there is a unity of issues. ending inequality, making people pay their fair share of taxes, finding a way out of the student debt slavery, finding ways to keep people in their homes, stopping the evictions, making sure that those who got us into the economic mess, the bankers and wall street, be held accountable -- and getting money out of our politics. [applause] >> one place you want to occupy for sure is the white house. goldman sachs, these guys are

continuing to run economic policy. it is goldman sachs. i am sorry. they're all goldman sachs alums. the bill back to goldman sachs. they go back into government. -- they all go back to goldman sachs. they go back into government. it is a white house issued. >> this goes back to the media in a way. i will go back to goldman sachs if i must. remember in august when there were about 1200 people doing civil disobedience around the white house protesting the keystone pipeline. the corporate mainstream media was like this on that. imagine if 1200 tea party members hitched themselves to the date of the white house. when occupy launched in september in new york and then

moved across the country, suddenly there was more attention being paid to other movements. it exposed how the media has done such a disservice to this country in the last few years by saying there was one movement in this country, the tea party. there are many other movements. the occupy wall street movement has brought into sharper relief and force the media to pay attention to other issues and movements. i could take off 10 or 15. -- tick off to enter 15. they've been toiling in the fields. now there is a space. i am not saying we will see movement into a new universe tomorrow. but there is a space now for new ideas and people who are more receptive.

there's more receptivity to issues that were closed off. the media played a role in that. >> the media is not playing that helpful of a role, generally speaking. we defended the proposition of mainstream media in new york a couple of years ago. the reality is the attention span is quite short. >> that will be a problem. there is an interesting conflict. >> the nation is not un- mainstream media. it has been around for a long time. you say it is minority ideas pushing the nation. minority ideas get a hearing in "the nation." everybody has a blog. is there such a thing as a minority idea?

>> minority idea comes from the fact that there are issues that do not get the attention they deserve. part of what "venation" tries to do is drive issues into a national conversation that are off the radar. we did a special issue 34 years ago called "the new inequality. -- we did a special issue three or four years ago called "the new inequality." i would like to publish agait again. there was a tough piece about ronald lauder's management strategy. the occupy movement is moving

"the new york times) to cover issues like that. that is important. critical mindedness is also what "venation" is about -- "the nation" is about. >> what single thing has come of of the -- out of the huge wikileaks document that has made a fundamental change in people's lives? >> i think it plays some role in what we're seeing in the era of uprisings. it played a role. we're doing a project of drilling down beyond the headlines. it has played a role in moving people to see some of the backroom dealings of u.s.

foreign policy. it has exposed people to think harder. i do think it played a role in leading people in tunisia and egypt to look at some of the cables and see what people already knew in their gut the soccer field in wikileaks about the alliances between u.s. foreign policy with the most repressive elements in those countries. let's hope that changes as the uprisings continue. anytime you can learn more about what is being done in our name, it is critical. that is part of what transparency is about. the freedom of information act is still not working well under the obama administration. some of that is pos/t 9/11.

in los war will lead to a decline in information transparency access. anytime you can have less sequence -- secrecy, that is good. less secrecy is needed. it was handled at the outset by partnering with newspapers like "the guardian," traditional newspapers of distinction. wikileaks released documents around the world to newspapers in india, haiti, the middle east, latin america. it has had an impact in countries we do not know enough about. we're doing a project with six editors in latin america to look at how wikileaks has played a role in their politics.

>> the media got distracted by the personality issues with julian assange. it is a fascinating, dark, twisted story, whatever is true. " people got obsessed with it. >> that is what happens. >> we have a cover story on the kim kardashian wedding now. [laughter] >> you have to pay the bills. the serious side of kim kardashian. >> i do think it is a problem. we are undertaking a project next year, the kind of project inspired by the works project to have the team across the country of writers, artists,

documentarians, photographers to document poverty in this country. it is the 40th anniversary of the book "the other america." we have this human-resources, people who want to do the project. they can do it in a way to tell the human stories. human stories are key. we can use the human stories to tell the story about the structural problems of poverty in the country so it has more than just a human interest quality. it could lead to change. it could lead to hearings. politically, it has resonance. millions of people are now squeezed in the middle class. they are feeling a check or two away from near poverty. there is more openness to think

hard about what has happened in a country that is the richest country in the world. this is where we try to reset the and narrative -- reset the narrative, the idea that america is. . it is not broke. our priorities are broken. there is a misplaced obsession with debt and deficits as the national emergency of our time. that has driven the story line inside the beltway. we did a story on how the austerity cost rules washington. it is a portrait of think tanks, philanthropists and others who have framed in a way so it is hard to tell an alternative story.

that has shifted a little because of new voices and forces emerging from the 99% or what ever you want to call it. >> you had better have twitter and facebook involved in the project. >> we do, absolutely. we have all kinds of new media. i agree you need to use all of that. it has been a very powerful force. we use all of that at "the nation. " we have a correspondent right about this in a politically. at occupy wall street in new york a few miles from our office, one thing that struck our correspondent was how many young people came to the square and were caught up in conversations, talking to people and the general assembly's, conversations. so many people have lived in

front of their laptop or been part of the new media that the ability to communicate and talk and sit around -- you cannot do it all the time, but that has been lost. you need the online organizing, but you need offline, too. encampments become difficult to maintain, but you can find ways to work together in occupying. >> do you think the technology has changed things more fundamentally? it has changed everything about the way we live. >> look at wisconsin or tahrir square. people will come to the square.

instead of 5000 people, you had 50,000 people. there is a power tool i.d.. it is a good question. without the people power, technology and new media is a sterile force and not as powerful. >> you mentioned people power. covered the fall of marcos and rise of a keynote -- aquino in the philippines. you have a vicious dictator and a pious, sincere, well-meaning is the original political leader. that was not true. she did not care about poor people. she probably had never met one even though 70% of the population lived under the

poverty line. he had actually done some things that were useful and helpful while he pocketed a piece of the action. then i went to a of salvador where oliver stone and others romanticized the guerrilla movement. they were killing mayors in cold blood. there were guerrilla camps up in the mountains. women in fatigues would be serving coffee and grumbling that the guys were running the show. there is a black-and-white problem in the way we look at things. there is a polarization going on. you talk about having to strengthen over here. we have to guard against these guys. life is more complicated than that. >> i agree. a theme that runs through my

book is many questions, not all answers. i do not think in black-and- white terms. here is a real power structure analysis. you need countervailing forces. we have had such one-sided power, corporate power. if you go back 50 years, you had labor, business, a government that was functioning, more of a balance. 1% may be too simplistic. a lot of 1%ers should not be vilified.

you can be a 1% with the 99%. those you call out and hold accountable are those who want to cut taxes for the rich and no fair share who want to live in the privatized environment and not care about the civic situation. that is truly damaging to the possibility of already beleaguered ideals. nothing is simple. i cover the former soviet union and russia. i could go on at great length about how boris yeltsin undermined democracy and became a hero democracy. lech walnsa in many ways was not the. working bloke many made him not to be.

gorbachev was a visionary who came to power. he saw he needed to change the country. he used his powers to do that. he withdrew from afghanistan. he called for nuclear abolition. he worked with ronald reagan. he understood you need political solutions, not military solutions. when the soviet troops were ready to come out of the barracks so the berlin wall would not come down, he told them to stay in the barracks, the empire is going. we cannot be a country that will be one of glasnost and perestroika if we live the way we have. it is the 20th anniversary of the soviet union, the end of the soviet union. many people in russia blame him

for the economic conditions in which they live. they blame him for the end of the country that many felt was the cradle to grave welfare state instead of a totalitarian system. i have great respect for him. you can also see people's weaknesses. you talked about all salvador. what about the priests and nuns? to me, that is the people power in that situation. flm was a revolutionary force seeking power. the people power were trying to alleviate poverty, trying to find balance. >> liberation theology had a stronger effect on the underlying society. i have to read this. you are listening to the commonwealth of california radio program. our guest is katrina vander

huegen editor and publisher of "the nation." i watched you on colbert. he asked you to repudiate the obama three times before the cock crows. [laughter] >> he said at the end that i filibustered him. >> he went after you. >> one of the bright lights in the bush era was when he spoke of the white house correspondents' dinner.

you rarely see someone in your face. it was at that moment when the country was -- it was really a rebuke to journalists. remember? >> i went on his show as a journalist. i was sweating. he explains from then on he will be in character. he said i am a person who has willful disregard for everything you believe in. [laughter] >> you kind of have to do a mindset check. it is very confusing. >> last year, the obama administration had a package of recommendations that appeared to be dead on arrival. why?

>> examples-simpson? >> i am assuming. -- is that the bulls-simpson? -- simpson-bowles? >> i am assuming. >> i think there was pushed back in the right way. the commission was focused on cuts and not investments. the great deficit in this country is the investment deficit, the investment in people and infrastructure. there were attempts to revive it. it was a super committee proposal. i think it is a good thing the super committee failed to reach an agreement. we will see where that goes. it was not a fair deal. there was so little revenue and so much padding. -- so much cutting. someone was writing the other day that the anti-tax mania is at an all-time low. reagan was willing to raise

taxes. it shows how extreme. someone said the of the grover norquist may be the most powerful person in america. the new pledge he has held canada is to. he has held candidates -- the new pledge he has held the new candidates to is keeping millions -- it has a role to play in a country rich in the land grant colleges, highways, bridges. i understand the bridge out here is about to be built. i am all for infrastructure.

>> obama in a way has to be the luckiest politician. if you look at the republican lineup -- [laughter] it is like michael dukakis in an oversized tank hat. >> the idea that newt gingrich is now at the top of the heap. >> you do not want to be the top because they get shot out. >> it is seems like anybody but romney. >> herman cain is a breath of fresh air. [laughter] >> i am not going to reassess him as he reassesses his campaign. >> herman cain is fabulous. >> newt gingrich -- i am going to get serious on you. newt gingrich is an error

lobbyist -- uber lobbyist. barney frank talk about michele bachmann. he also called out newt gingrich and said he held him responsible for the demonization of opponents that has contributed to the atmosphere we live in today. i do think he came into the house. he slashed all of the caucasus and civility. we are seeing this. this is a man who a few days ago talked about education reform in the context of firing the janitors in schools and putting the kids to work. a lot of the media called that unconventional. [laughter] let's repeal child labor ls