these are some pictures and examples of how the public authorities can invest in cycling. this is a parking space for a cyclist. tend thousand bicycles can be stored there. -- 10,000 bicycles can be stored there. you can build a shelter for about 30,000 bicycles. now, what can employees do? many employees are working on the bicycle programs. this picture is a picture of a bicycle shelter at the company where my wife works. it is quite luxurious. that it is a lawyer's firm, 500

lawyers work there, and most of them, by bicycle. -- and most of them come by bicycle. many companies give their employees their bicycle with their name on that. it is a form of advertisement. many companies, the company where i work for, the chamber of commerce, they have bicycle and scooter sharing for the people to come by public transport. they can take a bicycle or a scooter to go to their place. many companies are stimulating their employees who are coming by bicycle because it is much cheaper than coming by car.

it is also easier for these companies to start their business on a more "a" location instead of de "b" location. -- instead of faye "b" location. many employers work on bicycles. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much, peter. maybe i need to ask if i can vary from the script. i'm supposed to say that unfortunately we are out of time, but we are not. maybe what i will do is have you will come up here and sit around a table. if we could get some chairs? yeah, and could you turn on the

lights? very good. and is there another microphone? there are two. staff will pass them around if you have questions. what we will do is, unless you want to add to some of what you said and what you have heard this morning, we had a couple hours of staff, city staff discussing with them our experiences, and then reacting to our conditions and pitfalls and predicaments. if you have any observations from this morning's presentation, if you like to share that with us. [inaudible]

very good. so we will go with andy? did you have your hand up? >> no. >> ok, you serve. >> i have living and -- i have been living in copenhagen, bicycling. one of the things i think is very important at makes bicycles work in copenhagen is that most people live in apartments in the city and people have places to keep their bicycles. they did not have to bring their bicycle up three, four floors into their apartments. in san francisco, you have to take your bicycle up. if that was the situation in copenhagen, i think less than half the people who by now would bike. or people have to have wider bikes or folding bike. but having a heavy bike in a

two-room apartment is very detrimental. i think that needs to be addressed in at san francisco. >> problems of bicycles and space needs. at least they're not having to carry their up cars up to their apartments. how you deal with that in copenhagen? >> i think people just throw their bicycle against the wall where they live normally. but it is a responsibility for the city. that is why we have parking spaces were people live and work and shop. -- where people live and work and shop. that is a discussion every time, what is adequate? >> in the netherlands, if you

want to have a permit to build a house, it is mandatory that there is a place to park your bike. in rotterdam, they have the same situation. there, they put bicycle boxes on the street. the people who do not have space to park their by -- park their bike in the house, they can put their plight on the lockable shelters on the streets. in the netherlands, they provide for this problem. >> the amount of space that a bicycle and needs versus the amount of space that a car needs. at the very least, we would

require parking. if you think about bicycles being the mode of travel, you should require bicycle parking be more convenient. next question. >> going off the bicycle parking to all the mobile parking, i am with the san francisco bicycle coalition. we were talking last night in oakland about various cities and the congestion issues and congestion pricing versus perhaps parking pricing. i was wondering if he could tell us the politics of pricing

automobile parking versus congestion parking. in at san francisco, one of the biggest challenges is car is going past you at 40 m.p.h. and getting cars to go slower and not be in the city as we were looking at on market street. a lot of it is about reducing cars. i know in copenhagen, we look at what has been done with diminishing car parking, but maybe speak to car parking as part of this. >> in copenhagen, the cars cost double price because of taxes. not so many people have a car. copenhagen is like new york, i guess, people do not need cars as much. many people want to commute into the center from the suburbs.

that is what we want to prevent. that is why we have such high costs, high taxes on parking your car. the closer that you get to the center, the more expensive. but there is a limit how much we can turn away. that is why we also want to have some systems. i think if we're going to read 50% share of cycling for commuting, it is not enough to offer a good infrastructure. you also need possibly a toll road where people pay for driving and the city. -- for driving into the city.

>> i can tell you what it costs in amsterdam. amsterdam is the most expensive place to park your car. it is now 5 euros, nearly $7 per hour, 24 hours per day. also, the question from andy, about 12 years ago, we had a referendum, what to do with the cars in the city. the majority voted for less cars in the city. the last 10 years, the amount of cars went down. it is down 20%, and that was done by making the profiles of the roads a little bit smaller, adding more room for cyclists and public transport, and

bringing of the parking fees. it also what we did that time, for all new inhabitants, he needed a permit to park your car. you did not have a space, but you need it wanted park. that also cost money. every family can only have one permit. all the businesses have also a limited amount of parking spaces. by that, you regulate the amount of parking space, and by that also, eliminate the cars that come into the city. leaders of business say we do not need road pricing or congestion feed because we already have that by the parking fees.

what we also see is it did not affect the business in the city center because the people who did not really need to go into the city are now staying out or coming in by public transport or bicycle. nowadays, the businessmen who need to go into the city with his car for a)> hour, always has room, always pays, even in the neighborhood of the business. there is a limit on tariffs. 5 euros is enough. [inaudible]

most business people are afraid that making parking more expensive will actual impact their ability to do business -- will actually impact their ability to do business. >> it also depends on the sort of business and the sort of street. for instance, if the go on the street where gucci is and so on, and you need enough parking spaces. >> with the chairman of the society of amsterdam, they are

also supporting this approach. they realize if they just press on the car accessibility only, in the end there will be no excess ability at all. they support strongly that only the people who need to come by car, they should be able to come, and the rest should make other choices. >> i think we are more or less at the stage where we are facing the same discussion. our experience is that a platform of business is much more open to try to find solutions which are not car- related, except for here and there. also, for the population, it is hard. they have in mind, if you are better off to have a car, and

have the car in front of your door. it is still a long way to go for us. the mobility plans that local authorities are now obliged to develop, and the hearings that are organized because of that, are almost always concerning parking places. we have now a program where we are having one less car parking space. in the streets, you see, there is one car less because now bicycles can ride their bikes, but the comments are not as enthusiastic. you will have to be from the cycling movement to be happy about that. it is a hard struggle. >> you, sir? >> with health insurance, i

think people are realizing it is an idea whose time has come. maybe we're trying to make the same thing with cycling. in the united states, many people, especially in big cities, are much more resistant to the idea, including individual motorists, not just businesses afraid of profit. i am wondering, i am not sure how much a european have met with people who are very resistant, thinking it is like socialism, people just want to take over the streets and will not be room for cars and we will go slower and lose jobs. have you been able to convince people? what kind of arguments have you had? >> two weeks ago, a new york, it was 400 years ago that new amsterdam was found at -- was

founded. they convinced the general director of the new york port authority to put into action a bike accessibility plan, a bike plan for the more than 200,000 employees of the new york port authority. so they convinced these men that it would be a benefit to invest in bike accessibility. the thing is, i don't know, maybe you could put out an opportunity to meet them. we are mainly preaching for people who like our message, but i hardly meet people -- the

opposition. i don't know, maybe there are some people who are against too much like accessibility in the room here, but up until now, we have not met them. >> back in my town, i meet them very often. one of the most, one of the best arguments concerns air quality and the problem of noise. also, the numbers of young families not wanting to have their kids growing up in town and moving out. they're really looking at what arguments can you put forward to say we cannot continue the way that things are going. >> think in copenhagen, the status of the car has changed. people are not used to having cars anymore.

they sometimes use a car and go to a car sharing club or something. it is socially acceptable to cycle. 30, 40 years ago, you would maybe be seen as a loser if he came on a bicycle, -- if you came on a bicycle, but now it is for everybody. everyone is cycling. it is not, the former generation in the 60's, denmark, they could afford to buy a car and they really enjoyed it. they wanted to show it, and all trips they made or made by cars, the the new generation has a completely different view. >> i already gave my answer during my presentation. it is everything, especially if it is business or businessmen, it is money driven.

show it is comparative in cost or it is less cost for business. because if you show that, there is a discussion. >> let me ask before i go to the next question, what in your experience the you believe was the most influential and excepting the different stages of the car and its role in the city? i am sure over 40 years, your attitudes toward the automobile have changed. what do you believe was the most important influence? was it the price of gasoline? was it cost? was it the availability of more alternatives that are equally convenient? >> i think in copenhagen, we're lucky to have this strong tradition. it is survived the 1960's and 1970's, where the car became more prominent. many people still cycled, even

if everything was focused on improving conditions for the car. i think it was a dream that you should be able to cycle in your town. that was a movement around 1980, with huge demonstrations, in front of the town halls and the danish parliament. many thousands of people said they wanted city's -- they wanted cities where you could cycle around. >> i think most people in the netherlands, more and more realize the detrimental effect of car use. i have 80,000 people and it rotterdam, population of 700,000. more than 10% are seriously

affected by traffic. if i drive a car, i have to realize that i caused this problem with serious consequences. also, the climate effects. in the netherlands, people who come to work by bike are more regarded them by car. the people who use the car have to find excuses why they still use the car. they just come and say, i just want to go by car. and the fact is, more and more people -- for instance, in amsterdam, by having this past and so on, 9000 people per day choose not to have their car because there was no more accessibility by car but choose

the alternatives. 15% of them stay with the alternatives. they had a car. when they experienced it, it was not so bad commuting by bike or public transport, then there were convinced also. -- then it they were convinced also. if you tell people who drive by cars, and i think american politicians are so afraid they might lose voters, but if you keep telling them the detriment of the effects of using their car every day -- what? but they will not mind losing voters.

my friends and the businessmen and area, they don't mind. for the around children, -- for their own children, but is it faster, more convenient, and cheaper? those are the reasons why you will choose an alternative way. for instance, with the road blocks because of the working, they choose the alternative way. why? because it is cheap and because we have an arrangement for a cheaper ticket, and it was faster. and in the end, they stayed with public transport because they

realize that and they saw that it was faster and the cost was not higher. that was the reason, because we had an affiliation with that, and those were the reasons they stayed with public transport. >> thank you, peter. sarah? [inaudible] >> i just wanted to ask you to share some of your challenges with having so many cyclists and public transit. i[inaudible]

>> we have a system in copenhagen which could be an example. 30 years ago, those running the system, the trains and suburban trains, they said we do not have room for bicycles on the trains. the passengers, they are more important. then gradually, they were pressed, and you were allowed to bring a bicycle on sundays. it worked. that was gradually opened more and more op. in the end, the only restrictions was on a rush-hour , and only in the most busy direction. then when they got a new train

wagon, they got a fixed area we could have wheelchair's and trams, and to have your bicycle less well. -- and you could have your bicycle as well. i think it is working perfectly well. now they see the cyclists as their customers. and that is a big change, because before they were the enemy. >> the situation in the netherlands is completely different. cyclists are not encouraged to take their bikes on public transport. it is especially forbidden to have normal bikes and rush hour. the reason is because of 4% of the clients of public transport of trains, by bike. what they provide for our enough bicycle parking and the

possibility to take a bite from the station to where you want to go -- and the possibility to take a bicycle from the station to where you want to go to with a public transport bicycle. they say, we do not want to take the bike on the train, only for recreational purposes. on sunday, it is quite easy to take your bike. outside, it is only folding box and a provide enough bike parking. >> the public transport bicycle at the end of the trip, it is that a bike share program? is that a transit program? >> it is a bicycle sharing program. the bikes are not free. the cost 2.85 euros per day to

use it. but it is growing very popular. >> on the issue of bikes and transit, in the u.s., a traditionally we have seen by? -- traditionally we have seen bicycle racks. we cannot really see that in europe. is it because of the size of the city? >> i think honestly, it would not be possible to do that in copenhagen is there are so many cyclists which would try to use that service. i think the system would break down. you could do it if you had few cyclists, i guess. we have examples of areas in denmark we have that system,