use authorization. so that would be our recommendation. the basis for that real estate is we generally feel car washes are not appropriate for residential districts or smaller n.c. districts, allowing car washes here could negatively impact the quality of life for adjacent neighbors by bringing additional congestion, noise and fumes. but because we recognize there are no commercial areas along 19th avenue that currently allows car washes, we'd recommend the change to those n.c.'s that just would affect this area. the department recognizes that service stations in residential districts may not be compatible with housing but do contribute to livability by providing a service that's essential to many san franciscoians. the proposal ordinance attempts to address noise and traffic effects that may be caused when this new use is introduced. noise and exhaust from increased traffic and potential pedestrian car conflicts are to

be taken into account. establishing a car wash does not meet our threshold as far as ceqa is concerned for required traffic studies. we were a little bit hesitant on that criteria and we were worried it might create a precedence where any potentially nauseous use would have to be to do this traffic study and might set a precedent for proposals we don't think is appropriate. therefore, we'd recommend that condition be removed but rather through your conditional use authorization you'd look at each case by case and make a determination at that time if additional analysis were needed. so that concludes the department recommendation for this plan. i'd like to introduce dominica henderson from professor olague 's office. >> good afternoon, commissioners, my name is dominica and i work for

supervisor olague. i'm here today to just let you know supervisor olague introduced this item, this ordinance when in fact 19th avenue was in district five but due to restricting it currently is in district four and supervisor elsbern's district as well but she's still very supportive of this ordinance because as -- when with -- when it was when we introduced it, the car washes that are in this area of the city are very limited, so she just wants to open up the opportunity for existing gas stations, not new gas stations, to have the ability to provide the service through a conditional use. and so she was very careful to ensure that there are certain square footages that were included in this ordinance that were required as well as other limitations on noise, traffic, etc. we are requesting that you support this legislation today

in the form that it was presented because with the modifications that are suggested by the staff, they don't allow to the -- for the -- all four of the -- or the existing gas stations to pursue this as an option. and we are really respectful and understanding of the community process and i think that's why supervisor olague hopes that all of the legislation in its current form is approved by the commission and certainly by the board so the community can be able to come out and express their concerns and reservations or their support for these type of projects. so we have been working very closely with supervisor chu and supervisor elsbern's offices to ensure this is something not negatively impacting the community and we also have heard concerns from the neighbors around and would hope during conditional use

processes those concerns can be vetted even more with the station operators so we're hopeful you'll approve it today in the form that it was presented to the board. thank you. >> thank you, ms. henderson. >> good afternoon, katie tang on behalf of carmen chu and would like to reiterate the legislation in its current form. a year ago we were approached by project sponsors who wanted to install a car wash at a gas station. at that time under current processes there's no public output required and no notification. we wanted them to work with the association and neighborhood organizations and they did hear a number of concerns rising out of their proposal. however, we feel that this legislation in its current form is not indicative of whether we're supportive of car washes, it's giving the neighbors and opportunity to actually weigh

in sand aye through a conditional use process whether they'd like to see a car wash snule at potentially four sites. it does make it any more lenient and we feel the parameters set in the legislation limit it to four sites that could have car washes but again we feel very strongly about even providing neighbors and merchants the ability first of all to be notified there might be a car wash coming in and second of all to give their opinion whether they feel it's appropriate for the neighborhood. again, we'd really like to encourage the planning commission to support the legislation in its ornl form. vice president wu: thank you. is there any president comment on this ilte? -- item? seeing none, commissioner miguel. commissioner miguel: following some of commissioner antonini's original remarks early in this session, i'm not sure everyone

realizes how 19th avenue came to be in its current form. if you go prior to world war ii 19th avenue was a slightly wider street from the sunset north to south going out of golden gate park and south because that was basically what was el camino rial. so when my family took a ride on sunday down south we took 19th avenue and arrive lived in richmond and went through the park. prior to world war two they wanted to create a highway in part of that was the department of defense and whatever it was called at that time because everyone had an idea that something was brewing that would have a need particularly

out of the presidio in order to create a transportation link. and they moved homes back along 19th avenue and the sun set to widen it, believe it or not, in the sand dune there is and that's what created it. originally there was a plan to tunnel under golden gate park but no one had the money for it during the depression. so what you have there is not a city street, basically it's highway 1. and you have it intersecting a number of neighborhood commercial districts as it goes along. the idea seems obvious to put a car wash not as a stand alone, but with the service station. you get the discounts on your gas quite often and naturally, and it's both generates

automobile traffic and can be looked at in the same manner. one management firm -- and it's just a logical situation to handle. and the sunset and parkside do not have car washes in general anyway. it's a perfect example of what a conditional use should do. and the addition in the supervisor's legislation, and thank you, dominica and katie for your presentations, in the supervisor's recommendation that there be a traffic study. i understand the department's concept that, you know, loud, obnoxious, noisy, that type of thing. to me, in my mind, this is a very specific auto-related situation, and not anything else would fall into those

general categories, so i don't think it's opening up a can of worms on this one. it may not be in neighborhood commercial districts but it's at them even though they may not include the particular corner of the four locations, although in a way i think they do. and i like the original legislation, and i like the way it's written, and i would recommend that we make -- excuse me, i would move that we recommend to the board of supervisors our endorsement of the legislation in its original form. >> second. [laughter] vice president wu: commissioner sugaya. commissioner sugaya: i wash my car by hand.

[laughter] commissioner sugaya: to staff, automobile washing and drying occurs entirely within an enclosed building. the ends are open, right? we're not saying it's going to be closed. i mean, you've got -- all car washes i've been to, you go in one and comes out -- >> that's a good question, a walled building, but you would be able to drive a car in and out. commissioner sugaya: that might need a little definition on that. >> thank you. commissioner sugaya: how loud is 65 dress bells? >> that's a good question. i could google that. they have a lot of aequivalencies. commissioner sugaya: we considered a c.u. for a car wash in mission around south van ness around there and i think there was a lot of concern about noise. >> this current -- the threshold that was set there is the current threshold for the noise ordinance in the city, so we were just going with they need to respect the noise

ordinance, which from my understanding is violated as a matter of course throughout the city often, so -- commissioner sugaya: would it be in the commission's power to -- i'm going to vote for it, so once it's in place, one of the four comes to the commission and asks for a conditional use, could we lower the decibel requirement? as a condition? >> probably. generally right now the department doesn't track the noise ordinance. it's under the responsibility of the police department and department of public health to enforce the noise ordinance so this would be getting us into a new realm of enforcement we generally have not but i think that would probably be within your realm. commissioner sug gentleman: commissioner sugaya: i'm not saying that would happen but if something situationally happens and something is close by, you know what i mean. >> also with the traffic noise is already at that location. commissioner sugaya: thank you.

vice president wu: commissioner antonini? commissioner antonini: very familiar. it's well beyond 500 feet of any of these sites, probably about a mile from 19th. i live close by. i think this is a good idea for a number of reasons. first of all, the nearest car wash of this -- actually, the nearest car wash which is more intense than this, it's a full car wash where you have not only the mechanical car wash but staffs which do additional things which is beyond what is being promised is in daily city. once again we lose some business of people having to drive away from san francisco to be able to have a mechanical car wash, and i think with up to 150,000 people in pretty close proximity to these locations, it's sort of green in the sense that if you did not choose to hand wash your car, which i do sometimes, but

i also sometimes take it to a car wash. but you're not driving a long distance to be able to avail yourself of a car wash. and i don't think we have any others of this nature in san francisco. we probably do have some. the ones i'm more used to are the larger ones but i have been to a couple of these in the east vein, you drive in, come go through and come out the other side and it's not as thorough a wash as it is it you go to one of the car washes that are self-contained but still is a good thing when the car gets really dirty very quickly. so i would be in favor of this and i don't see any reason why it's not good. and also i do favor the version that is part of our motion which includes the stations at lincoln and 19th avenue. which actually are, i think, some of the more compelling sites because they have access from lincoln as well as from

19th and i think they'd be most easily reached and probably be the most popular sites where car washes might be established. vice president wu: thank you. commissioner moore. commissioner moore: i have one quick question to ms. rogers. i assume it's implied here those sites or these stations would apply for adding a car wash would not try toing a debate the site at the expense of acquiring adjoining properties. as you know, these car washes, even without the hand services, which commissioner antonini talked about are quite space-consuming and at most stations there are pumps, etc., already sitting away that there isn't a lot of wiggling room. in order for these car washes to work, even the limited, just automatic, driving in, getting it dried inside requires an apron in the front where cars

cue up properly, not interfering with the service of the gas station itself and acquire an apron at the point the car comes out, it comes off a conveyor belt, you put your car in gear and you see your window shields are back and there are staging rooms in front and in back. i want to make sure this ordinance clearly indicates car washes would not be added in additional lots. that is really important to me because i'm not interested in starting to revert in a suburban way of washing cars. but if somebody wants to add a car wash it would happen within the existing parcel, that i think is the key word here. >> i think that's a good point you raised, commissioner moore, when we looked, it was more than four that were gas stations along 19th avenue. i think there was nearly a

dozen but only four met the size criteria so if you wanted to add a condition they would need to be as of that size and could not contain a recent lot merger, that could be a recommendation to the board that seems to make sense. commissioner moore: i think that's a very important recommendation. >> i would include that in the motion. >> to address commissioner sugaya's question, i had a chance to look at the decibels to get a understanding of what we're talking about and it says a normal conversation ranges between 60-65 decibels. city traffic ranges around normally 85 decibels and a jackhammer is up to 95, so that's a comparative. >> thank. >> thank you. >> commissioners, the motion in front of you -- vice president wu: commissioner moore. commissioner moore: one more time. i assume building new car washes would also fall under the city's ordinance for water

recycling, etc., because there are new rules which have to be in play in order for that to happen. >> yes, and in this case that would be a condition you're adding for these along 19th avenue. commissioner moore: ok. thanks. >> ok. thank you. commissioners, the motion before you is for an approval of the original motion with the amendment that it would not allow for lot mergers, on that motion. >> aye. commissioner antonini? >> aye, commissioner wu: >> aye. >> that motion passes unanimously. >> if we could take a quick 15-minute break. i know there are a number of people here for the next item. i want to thank you for your patience. >> the planning commission is taking a 15-minute recess. thank you.