chairperson hur: good afternoon, welcome to the continued meeting of the san francisco ethics commission relating to the official misconduct proceedings against ross mirkarimi. we'll begin by taking the roll. commissioner studley? studley here. commissioner liu? commissioner liu: here. commissioner hayon? commissioner hayon: here. chairperson hur: commissioner renne? commissioner renne: here. chairperson hur: when we last

left off, we were hearing the testimony of eliana lopez. can the staff bring ms. lopez and her attorney into the hearing room? while that's happening, just a reminder, any disruptions, we're going to have to ask the sheriff to remove anybody who makes noises that are inappropriate, any disruption, i'm asking him now to please remove somebody even without direction from me. we're trying to pay attention to the testimony. you're free to do whatever you deem necessary in light of what we're trying to accomplish here and we thank the public for your cooperation in that. obviously, the testimony is sensitive and we're really trying to pay close attention so thanks in advance for your

cooperation. i will ask the attorneys the same question i asked yesterday evening, whether there are additional seats that you had reserved that you're not longer using. if that's the case, please let the sheriff know and we can allow a few more people in. if you're still waiting for others, we understand you need to reserve your seats. >> i think we only need a total of five. so if there's still 10 reserved, we can release five. chairperson hur: ok.

so i guess you can release five seats. ms. lopez, let me remind you that you are still under oath. do you understand that? >> i understand. chairperson hur: and same for the interpreter, you understand you are still under oath? >> yes, i understand. chairperson hur: mr. keith, you may proceed. >> good evening, ms. lopez. have you communicated with your husband's attorneys, mr. kopp or

mr. wagner at any time before tonight? >> i just give him a little back and say hello and i bring a present for him from venezuela because i think they are doing a great job, both of you. i have one for you, too. >> have you had any conversations with them about the events of december 31 or anything that happened after that with regard to the police investigation of that incident? >> no. >> did you share a draft of your declaration with your husband's attorneys? >> no. >> and you recall being directed by the chair of the commission not to discuss your testimony with anyone after leaving the witness chair last night? >> yes. >> have you discussed your testimony with anyone since

leaving the witness chair last night? >> no. >> ms. lopez, last night when we left off, i asked you about whether you made a statement to your husband on december 31 along the lines of, please stop, look at what you're doing to our son, do you know what this going to do to him, please stop for our son? and then you mentioned that the first time you told your husband to stop was in the mini-van. do you recall that testimony? >> si -- yes, i'm sorry. >> that's ok. what was your husband doing to you in the family mini-van that led you to tell him to stop? >> he grabbed my arm.

>> how long did he hold on to your arm? >> he grabbed my arm and i said stop, it was one second. how much you can take the time. "stop." >> i think the record should reflect that the witness moved her right arm suddenly across her torso. chairperson hur: record should so reflect. >> were you a danger to your son at the time that your husband grabbed your arm? >> whether i was a danger? >> yes. >> no. >> do you think that your husband needed to defend your son from you? >> i don't think so. >> you got an injury from your

husband on december 31st? >> i got a bruise. >> is that an injury? >> i'm not a doctor. i can say i got a bruised. >> you don't know whether that's an injury. >> objection, relevance. chairperson hur: answer's in. >> there was a second time on the 31st that you told your husband to stop that you mentioned last night. do you recall that testimony? >> yes. >> where were you the second timing -- time you told your husband to stop on december 31st? >> in the kitchen of my house. >> and at that point did you say to your husband, something along the lines of "please stop, look at what you're doing to our son, do you know what this is going to do to him, please stop for our son?"

>> in the kitchen he was apologizing i didn't want to talk with him so i said, stop, do not talk to me. and at that point was around 1:00 p.m., he was hungry. he was sleepy. i was hungry. i was angry because i have to cook and make the lunch late at 1:00 when it's already nap time and he was trying to apologize so i just say, stop, let me cook, make things i have to do and deal with you. >> on december 31, did you tell your husband, look at what you're doing to our son? >> no. >> did you tell your husband, do you know what this is going to do to him?

>> no. >> did you tell your husband, please stop for our son? >> no. >> now, why were you concerned concerned -- let me step back for a minute. were you at all concerned about the effect of your husband's behavior on december 31st on your son? >> i do not like to fight in front of my son, so i was trying to avoid anything and i of course i was so angry he grabbed my arm in front of my son. >> why did that concern you? >> not only that, the profanity, i think, was worse for me. >> why did the profanity concern you with regard to your son? >> because it's not right to say that kind of things in front of my son. >> are you concerned.

>> i don't say any bad word in front of him. >> are you concerned about the effects of that kind of behavior on your son? >> yes. >> and were you concerned about a negative effect on your son of your husband using force on you in the presence of your son? >> absolutely, very strong. >> were you concerned about your son growing up in an abusive environment? >> objection, relevance. chairperson hur: counsel, what is it going to? >> this is going to the witness' state of mind and what her state of mind was on the 31st with regard to the situation with her husband. it's part of our claim that the witness had an awareness that she was being abused and after the communications we have been going over over the past couple

of nights that changed. chairperson hur: we'll allow this question. overruled. >> can you repeat the question? >> you were concerned about your son growing up in an abusive environment? >> i think an abusive environment is when that kind of thing happen every day or every week. i would never be -- i would never let my son have that kind of experience. but, of course, if it happened one time --. >> a warning signal. >> that you have to pay attention and that is why i was mad of him. >> did you tell cali williams you were concerned about your son growing up in an abusive environment? >> i think to cali williams, you

said? >> yes. >> can you repeat the question? >> did you tell cali williams you were concerned about your son growing up in an abusive environment? >> yes. >> and when you that said to cali williams, were you referring to your own home? >> she was telling me about her father who was an abuser of her mother and hurt her mother, and he was, she described like a horrible domestic violence, and that affect her. she was telling me her own experience,ids, and i said, of course i do not want my son growing up in that kind of environment, but she was talking about her own experience because she, i think she grew up in a domestic violence house and her

father, she described that her father. chairperson hur: ms. lopez, i'm going to stop you right there. >> i'm sorry. chairperson hur: you're starting to be nonresponsive to the question and i don't think we need to go into the details of that. i think you have your answer. move on. >> ok. >> and when you told your husband to stop in the kitchen, what happened after that? >> he moved to another room. >> how soon after he came into the house did you tell him to stop? how soon after your husband came into the house did you tell him "stop"? >> immediately he came inside and i say, you don't talk to me and stop. >> did you continue to argue with your husband inside your home? >> no, i just said that. >> didn't you tell cali williams

that the argument with your husband continued inside your home? >> no. >> didn't you tell ivory madison that the fight with your husband continued inside your home? >> no. i told them exactly what i already told you right now. >> so did your husband push and pull and grab you inside your home? >> never. >> ok. didn't you tell ms. had son and ms. williams that your husband continued to physically abuse you in your home? >> no. >> ms. lopez, your testimony is that you never ran out of the house screaming on december 31st? >> yes. >> ok. now, after the fight with your husband on december 31, did you send a text message to abe mertens. >> december 31st? >> yes.

>> and that message said, hello, where are you guys? >> yes. >> how long after the fight with your husband ended did you send that message to mr. mertens? >> i think that that was around0 when i started to make theo's lunch and i was hungry and we ate, theo and me, because i didn't want to cook for ross. and then we finished and i tried to put him down and he didn't want because we pass all the schedule, and then i took him to square park and when i was walking up the park, i text them because i was along with theo so maybe they can bring grace to play in the animal square park and i think that was around 2:00 or 3:00 because i was in the

park between -- until maybe 4:00 p.m. >> ms. lopez, i asked you how long after the fight ended that you texted mr. mertens. >> and i was telling you the things i was doing. maybe you have the record. >> you don't know how long after the fight? >> no, we drive to the lunch, we come back, and then i make lunch, i feed him, maybe he went to the bathroom and i tried to put him down. maybe that took one hour, one hour and a half. >> so it was an hour to an hour and a half after the fight ended that you texted mr. mertens? >> yes, when we were walking to animal square park. >> on january 31st. >> this is yours? >> ok, sorry. >> on january 1, you went over

to ivory madison's home? >> january 1? >> yes. >> yes. >> and you told ivory madison what your husband did on december 31? >> yes. >> did you tell ivory madison the truth about what happened on december 31? >> yes. >> had your husband ever been physically violent with you earlier in 2011 before december 31? >> no, this is the first time. >> now, you told ivory madison that you're husband's violent act toward you on december 31 was the second time he was physically violent toward you in 2011, didn't you? >> objection, that misstates the testimony and the evidence in the case. chairperson hur: i didn't quite hear the objection. >> objection, that misstates the testimony and the evidence in the case. chairperson hur: overruled. >> can you repeat the question? >> you told ivory madison that your husband's violent act on december 31, 2011, was the second time he was physically

violent toward you in 2011. >> no. >> you told cali williams that your husband's violent act toward you on december 31 was the second time he was physically violent toward you in 2011? >> no. >> and you told cali williams the first time he was physicalle violent with you was in march of time we fight about and we -- when the situation about divorce, i was referring to that. >> so is it your testimony that you did not tell cali williams that that first violent incident was in march 2011? >> i didn't say that, yes. >> now, ma'am, you made a video that day at ivory madison's home? >> yes. >> in the videotape you made that day you pointed to your bruise and you said this is the second time this is happening? >> yes. >> was anything you said in your video untruthful? >> no.

>> now, later in the day, you sent ivory madison an email on the 1st? >> i do not remember. >> so for the commission, i'm going to go to exhibit 48 and ms. lopez, you do have exhibit binders in front of you that are tabbed. exhibit -- rather large, exhibit 48 is in the larger binder.

ms. lopez, if i can approach the witness? chairperson hur: yes. >> while the commissioners are getting their binders i'll ask you to look at that email that's exhibit 48 and i'll have a couple of questions for you.

does looking at exhibit 48 refresh your memory about whether you sent an email to ivory madison later on the 1st? >> yes. >> and this is a copy of that email? >> yes. >> you reference in the email, you ask ivory madison to send you the information from the therapist. >> uh-huh. >> had ivory madison offered to get some information for you? >> yes. >> you also mentioned that there's a line here that says, looks like ross, in doing research, too, i assume that means looks like ross is doing research, too? just a typo? >> yes. >> ok. what was your husband doing on january 1 with regard to what had happened on december 31? >> at the end of the day on december 31, we had a conversation and i told him this cannot happen, this is wrong,

and i was telling him we need therapy, counseling. i was telling him that for the last year, and i think this is an important moment and you have to realize that we need help and he said, you are right. he realized that that was wrong and he took it very seriously, and he told me i'm going to looking for someone and i say i'm going to looking for someone, too. >> you mentioned that. >> i'm sorry, i'm sorry. so when i said ross is doing research, too, i think he was in the computer looking for information. i thought that. >> ms. lopez, you mentioned you had been suggesting to your husband for the past year -- i don't want to put words in your mouth. were you asking him for the past year to start therapy with you?

>> yes. >> why? >> because when i move here, the only reason when i move here was because i met him and i want to have a family with him and was very hard for me to leave my home town, my career, but i want to do it because i decide that when in the moment when i decide to have a baby, i want to spend with him at least the first three years. so when i came here, for him, the home birth was not even an idea and i said i want a home birth because that is the safest and that is the best for our

son. so i was very committed to do the best thing for my son. but after three years, he want to go back to work so to work for me is to be an actress and english is my second language so be working in san francisco as an actress, i couldn't find any place, not any tv station for work so i was trying to looking for things to do here as an actress and i didn't really find. so i made a movie between 2010 and 2011 so i travel. >> could you answer the question i asked. >> explain to you why i'm looking for therapy. it's not just one word.

i will try to short it. let me finish a little bit. chairperson hur: why don't you stop your answer. mr. keith, do you feel you have the answer you want? is. >> i feel we're a couple of years before the answer. >> explain why you need therapy? chairperson hur: hold on. we'll stop the answer there. ask another direct question and the counselor for the sheriff will have an opportunity to ask you questions, as well. >> ms. lopez, when you had been asking your husband to go to couples therapy for the past year, was that because you thought that there were problems with how your family worked out disputes? >> no. >> when you decided to start asking your husband to go to therapy, it was because you thought you had faults, that you had to have fixed? >> you have what?

no. well, i don't know. maybe i will discover that in therapy, but i think i. >> the question is what led you to want to get therapy and to ask your husband to go into therapy for the past year, it was something about his behavior that you found troubling that made you want to have your husband go to therapy? >> i think he has an irrational fear to allows us each time i have to travel to venezuela to work. i think he -- how he grew up without his father and he really had, that hurts him and was having the same age like theo, his mom took him away. i think he always feel that i'm going to take theo away from him and that is the line he told me, you just want to take theo away from me. no. i'm not your mom. so you have to go to therapy to

realize that i will never take theo away from you. >> did that irrational fear that you saw in your husband lead to negative consequences for your family? >> i think he's always scared and i think that is very sensitive for him to lose theo and when that day i just ignored that and give him my back, he reacted in a very negative way and that was:. i turned my back to him and ignored his fears when he was talking to me and i think is why he grabbed my arm and i think that is well, obviously, i'm here because and theo cannot see his father, is a disaster for

our family. i cannot even touch my husband. is a disaster. >> i'd like to ask my question. >> you asked me if that fear has horrible consequences. yes, this is a disaster. >> i asked you if that irrational fear on the part of your husband of losing you and theo have negative consequences for your family. did it or did it not? >> we are apart, that is horrible. >> before december 31, did it have negative consequences for your husband's behavior toward you? >> no. >> your husband's behavior toward you before december 31 was acceptable to you? >> yes. >> you had no complaints about his behavior toward you before december 31? >> objection, relevance. >>. chairperson hur: sustained. >> in this research that your husband was doing on january 1

about possible resources to go to, were there any names he suggested to you? >> no. >> now, your husband took you on a trip to monterey on january 2 and 3. >> yes. >> and as of january 2, did you understand that you were in an abusive relationship with your husband? >> i'm sorry. >> can you repeat that question, please? chairperson hur: ms. cani, i appreciate that you need to be here but that's not acceptable. >> the problem is, your honor, that shepwas -- shep was distracted. chairperson hur: i don't want to hear it. can we have the question read back, please? [couep