being american and -- the divorce are not happy -- are not easy, and usually you are angry, and i think we both regret to say a lot of things at that wa point. >> when did that conversation take place that he said he would fight to gain custody because he was american? >> in march of 2011. that was the first time we got that situation. >> did he say it again on december 31, 2011 during the fight you have then? >> no. >> thank you.

>> [speaking spanish] >> [speaking spanish] >> the court reporter is licensed to report in the official language of the court. >> i will translate for you. [speaking spanish] >> when my beautiful city was even more beautiful. >> if i could i would ask all the questions in spanish for your ease, but so everyone can understand, it is probably better that i do it in english. i live in caracas for a certain

time, but back in the 1970's, when it was a fabulous city, and i enjoyed my stay very much. i have a number of questions for you. my first question is in january when these events took place, how long have you lived in san francisco? >> three years. i moved to san francisco december 12, 2008, so i was exactly two years in december. >> you said you turn to our free medicine in this troubling moment because she was your friend and neighbor. is that correct? a >> yet. -- >> yes. >> did you have other friends to whom you could have turned to?

did you have friendships and form a community during those three years, or were you isolated? >> no, i am not that social, but i have a few friends, spanish speakers in my class. i create a class for toddlers to share my acting skills with other kids, and i built a friendship with at least three mothers in my group, and i talked with them regularly, and i have another friend from columbia that i talked with all the time, and also my best friends, one is living in mexico, and we talk all the time, too. >> yet you did not turn to any

of these friends to discuss your domestic violence incident. why is that? >> in december 31, i have a long conversation with my dad, and i talked to my brother, and i did not talk with them or any friend, because i thought it was not relevant to talk with them about this. goo>> why did you think it was relevant to talk to your neighbor, and ivory madison? >> she called me in december, and she said, can you call me so we can plan our goal for the new year? i said, can you take care of theo.

i said, i will be there. i was mad and ross, so i said it was perfect. i went to see her. that was the conversation december 31. we plan for the next day. the next day i went to her home, and she started to talk about she is in therapy, and she mentioned my therapist. my therapist told me i have anger issues, and i thought, and who really? anchor issues, -- anger issues, and i think i would like the number, because i would like to share your professional opinion. that is how i started the

conversation, and i remember when she mentioned dasthat. i said, i really need your professional opinion about this. it was as a lawyer, because she is always repeating that she is a lawyer. >> did she understand what you meant about that when you said professional experience? did she understand, and did you make it very clear you were seeking official who legal counsel? did you say those words? >> i said its, and she responde, of course, i will help you. i have been in court so many times. i know how it works. >> i will stop you right there. it is one thing to say, i will help you. it is another thing to say, i

will act as your attorney. did she ever say she would act as your lawyer? >> she said, i will take care of you. this is confidential. we need to make evidence. we have our office. i have been in court so many times. she has been telling me so many times she is a lawyer and using those words, i am all lawyer -- a lawyer. >> is it possible that at that point there could have been either language issues or some kind of cultural misunderstanding in terms of what she heard from you and what you heard from her? is that a possibility? >> it is.

>> you have any understanding of why she might have been so upset or concerned about your situation after you described this incident to her? had you understand she would be really worried for your safety, up because you seem surprised about her reaction and her desire to call the police about all of these and events >> on january 1, she was not concerned about my safety. she said, i am so sorry this happened to you. you do not deserve this, and i said, of course i do not deserve this. i think this is wrong, and this is a warning call, and i was very clear about that, and we

made a decision. i think finally he understood, we need therapy and counseling, and she offered to look into counseling on january 1. now she switched from january 1 until january 4 from you have to call the police -- it was not even she was afraid of my safety at all. she was not concerned about my safety. i was there. i talked with all the people i wanted, so she was not afraid. she was trying to -- the words that she used, screw him. >> you have made references to that. it is idiomatic and does not

mean something horrible. it means, you take care of yourself and do not worry about him. did you make it sound as if you felt she had ulterior meanings. we do not know, do we do? >> as a family, i cannot talk that way to my family. >> your husband, even if you are in the middle of a potential divorce, you would not think of him that way? >> i was so angry because she could think that wheay and thate would fight against me, but i think in our hearts, what we were looking for was like the best for theo, and december 31,

i told him, if we are not happy, if you cannot understand me, if this is too much for you, we can do a divorce in a nice way, good for you, good for me. >> in terms of domestic violence in our society and in particular in san francisco, which is very progressive in terms of how we deal with women's rights issues, were you aware of our attitudes and also in terms of legalities? if i am a neighbor, and i know some sort of domestic violence has taken place, i do not need your permission to call police, so i am surprised you would think about now ivory madison's attitude about what you clearly

described as domestic violence incident, and that would possibly be of great concern to whomever you told. >> it is why i called, because i was thinking, maybe i am not getting that this is domestic violence, so i called her, and she explained that domestic violence is a lot of things. to grab my arm is not a domestic violence. domestic violence implies of usabuse, verbal abuse, a lot of other things, and she checked with me on those things. just an isolated incident. i helped to make the bruce because i pulled away, because him touching me is not acceptable. >> it sounds to me like you did not include that information

about pulling your arm away when you were for selling your neighbor and friend about the incident, nor when you told cabinet -- when you told kelley williams, your upstairs neighbor. you were telling a lot of people about something that sounded very troubling and perhaps criminal. did you not understand that? that there was the potential for this information to get out of your hands and you relayed to the police? >> i never thought. i was so naive. >> you did participate in that video. >> when she told me, you need evidence to protect yourself, because ross just got elected

share of -- sheriff. if he does not want to give you any money, how are you going to call lawyers? this is an old boys' network. >> i understand your feedear. would you say that you exaggerated the extent of this incident when you were describing it to these individuals so they may have gotten the impression it was a far more serious incident then perhaps you have said since then? >> i remember i told not ivory and kelly in my heart i did not want to divorce. i said, i think he is a victim of circumstances.

he was a little boy. >> we do not need to hear that. >> i understand that, and i understand his rational fear, and as his wife, i should support him, so my first step is to support him. good >> to protect your husband even if he grabs your arm and there is an injury like that? >> maybe if i thought he ignored my fear i would do the same thing. >> good evening, miss lopez. i will try to be brief because you have had a long session, but i was unclear about the answers you gave just now.

what was a reason you went down on january 1 to meet with i've read madison -- with ivory madison? you were the one who set up an appointment to meet with her, did you not? >> no, she called me. she said, we are here making cookies, and i want to talk to you about our goals. you want to come over? that night ross was in bed watching a movie, so i said, this is not a good moment for you, and ross was not happy with them. we tried to push them away a little bit, because we had another incident, and i know he did not want to see them, so i said this is not a good moment, so i said, let's plan for

tomorrow. i said, can you come over? >> it is your testimony that the motivating force to go down and speak with her was a rivalry rather than yours -- was ivory rather than yours? >> she invited me. >> at some point you started relating to her what had happened on december 31? >> yes. >> i take it that you told her about ross taking you to lunch and then getting angry and turning around and what you testified to, right? is that what you told ivory? >> on january 1, i came to her homelan.

i took gracie for a walk, and i was talking to her. >> i am asking what you told her. >> i told her, i want your opinion about is. >> you asked her for her opinion. did you tell her you had been audio recording the words that were being spoken in the car? >> yes. >> was that a true statement? >> if is true. >> you still have that recording? >> no. >> what did you do with that? >> i record him in the car, so i said, i want you to listen to yourself later, and then we came home, and i said, do you want to listen when we were talking about we need to do therapy?

the you want to listen to yourself? >> was that -- lacks the first time mnemonic -- >> the first time them of cracks in the car you played it for him, but now you are saying you played it for him in the house. >> i did not play it, but i recorded. i was recording him. i said, i want you to listen to yourself, and when we got home, i said, do you want to listen. of course, no, and i delayed it, and then we started to talk, and he said, you are going to take theo away. i said, i am going to record you again, because i an not going to take him away from anyone, and then i deleted.

i do not remember at what point i deleted. >> didn't you tell ivory madison the reason you were recording is because you could use it if you got in a custody fight with ross? >> she told me, you have to keep that in evidence as well? >> when you made the video, you intended for that to be maintained so if he threatened to take your son away from you you could use that in court, right? >> the video? to use it in case he took theo away? >> so you could use it in court? >> if we went through a nasty divorce, yes. >> are you told him whenever he said on the video had to be the

truth? >> yes. >> the words you used were not words ivory madison gave to you. they were your words, right? >> she also told me i really did not get it. i did not understand what she said, but she said to use the words that he pushed you and all those things, and when i was talking, i was saying, that did not happen. i am not going to say that. i am going to say the truth. this happened yesterday. >> what you said on the tape was the truth? >> yes, he grabbed my arm. >> had you on prior occasions consulted and talk with ivory about your relationship with ross?

>> as a friend, she shared with me saying is about ivory, and i said of course. >> i am asking the new share incidents relating to your relationship with ross? >> yes. >> how frequently did you do that in the 12 months prior to december 31 chairman -- december 31? >> if you check that e-mails, they are over a year, so that means i was checking yesterday. that means these are now one or two e-mails. most of them are in march, when we were back and forth e-mails, because she suggested we look

for a cleaner together so it will be cheaper, a person who comes a few hours to her mom and a few hours to my home, so most of the e-mails were in march, but most of them were two or three each month. that means we see each other every saturday, but it was not that i was visiting her. in december common after she held ross with money, i remember to say, we should start to be nicer, because they look like now they are trying to be with us. she was calling a lot of time, and i have a lot of calls from her, and i did not answer. it is not like we were talking every day or once a week. it is likewise per month.

-- it is about twice per month. >> i am not asking about e- mails. you met with ivory from time to time and discussed with her problems you were having in your relationship with ross? >> the only problems are shared were the problems in the e- mails. the only information i shared with her. >> you said maybe it is two or three times a month? >> yes. >> in any of those occasions when you were sharing those problems, did you tell her you were sharing them with her because she was an attorney? >> no. >> it is because she was a friend, and she considered you a friend.

>> yes. >> on december 31, your discussion, which usa was initiated by her was not a conversation where you had gone to her and said, i want to hire you as my lawyer and tell you about an incident? >> i did not use that. the same way as with pawlentula. >> on january 4, you had a discussion, or you texted ms. haynes because you wanted to talk to her about the incident. is that correct?

>> yes. >> you were fairly consistent with trying to reach her for that purpose? were you not? >> yes, i wanted to realize that was really a domestic violence. >> had you ever prior to the time you were texting her about is, had you ever spoken to ms. haynes about your personal relationship with ross democrats know, just comments during the campaign. everybody gets sick, and no one can follow iis reason. that kind of thing. >> you never had more than a 40

minute conversation with ms. haynes, and in that conversation, did you describe what had happened on december 31? >> yes. >> what if any response did she give to you when you told her those facts? >> what was her response to? >> what did she say in response? >> she was asking more questions, and she was explaining domestic violence is a lot of things, so to know you are in a domestic violence situation implied a lot of different things, so just one isolated thing, maybe it is not. however, that does not mean it is right. it is wrong, and you need to be

very serious and take this very serious, and we need to take ross to counseling, because he has to realize this is wrong. >> of the end of that conversation, did you ask her to do anything to assist you? >> if i asked her for assistance gunma? >> yes. >> no, i asked her about being private or public. then she called me again and said, that is public. goross is a sheriff, so maybe we need something private to help with privacy, and she called me later and said, i have been thinking maybe you need a

family, not just a couple. you need something with the family. >> i am not sure i understood the first thing you said. you said she suggested doing what? going to a therapist and? >> she was recommending a therapist? yes. it is better for a family. she said that is something public, and we want to keep it private. >> was she the one who suggested maybe you should keep it private rather than going public? >> i do not want anyone to know. i did not want to be exposed in this wave. good -- in this