not open and i think that i was very clear. >> i think that i am aware of that. >> and so for me to trust you whether we grant a permit to you if you are going to follow what we say, whether it is closing at 3, 4, 5, you know? >> i have been following it for five years. >> but i mean if you are there you don't expect you to be there every minute. >> sure. >> so you know just let us as club owners we are responsible for our staff. >> sure. >> if i tell my staff that job comes in drunk, nobody comes in they have to do it because when the police come they are not going to yell at your staff they are going to look for you. >> that is pretty much my family. >> that means that you are altogether. >> right. >> police? >> i have some questions.

>> what is the purpose, and i mean that you stayed in your conditions number three that you would like to have this guy lead trained and since he does not serve alcohol,; is that correct?? >> yes. since he does not serve alcohol, you want him to be lead trained so that he could identify people who are intoxicated. >> yeah. probably the biggest issue that we have, on broad way, is it is 2:00 in the morning, people are rolling out of the clubs. they should not be under the influence, but unfortunately that is the reality that we have to deal with on a weekly basis and so a lot of times they are extremely intoxicated. what we don't want is someone who is intoxicated going over to one of the restaurants and going from, you know, their problem outside, and so, if they, if the establishment looks over, and sees this drunk mess coming their way. and you know, let's not let that person in, so what i would like to do is have that part of their business plan that they are not going to allow drunks

into the establishment. the reason that i asked specifically for the leads training is some people expertise, maybe they have worked in the industry where they know what a drunk person looks like, but what the lead trains does is goes across the board identifying what a drunk person looks like and how they behave and what the consequences are when they drink. that is why we are asking for that. >> so. what do you suggest that the drunk people do? get in the car? here is the thing, for me, i always thought that food is a balance. food helps people to sober up and gives them time to stay in a venue before they get on the road or even get on public transportation or fall off of a curb and hurt themselves or whatever. and so the idea is to take intoxicated people and not allow them to eat food and

sober up and instead send them on their way and possibly drive a car or get on the public transportation where they fall asleep and throw up or something. i am sorry but i don't get the logic of what you intend you are going to do with the drunk people if you don't allow them to have food. >> i have not seen where somebody, and i don't want, you take this the wrong way. >> but, it is not like, they are going to have a slice and they are going ko come in drunk and take a bite out of pizza and all of a sudden sher sober as a judge. >> that may be true but they will be more sober. >> i mean, how long was it going to take, the only thing that really takes care of the people being intoxicated is time and so in the 15, 20 minutes that is going to take the person so order the pizza and put it in their mouth and absorb some of it, but we have a lot of alcohol on board.

>> that is the issue that we have, we have a thought people coming out on columbus and we are trying to get everybody to go on their way and now we are having, these maybe the restaurants and now we have a new staging area and so they come over here and now we have got, up to three places right here on broad way that potentially could be open and now it is a new cluster and so before the problem could be ending where the police could work at getting people on the way and he says do we want them jumping in the car? absolutely not. >> we are hoping that there is public transportation or taxi and another ride with a friend, i don't think that a slab of pizza is going to undo an entire night of drinking, for some it might get something in their stomach to absorb something so it goes into their metabolism slower. >> this place has been opened for five years. i mean, this is not something new that people have been

intoxicated. has it created a bad situation for you? i mean, that way? >> at closing time it is one of the issues, and often times in responding to the police they will go over and they will have to go in and deal with the situation. sometimes they might go in and say hey you need to get these guys out of there but it does create a problem for law enforcement and it also extends the exposure time that law enforcement has to be out on broad way. and lead was saying that there are too many cops out there. i agrees with them. but that is how many cops we need out there to deal with the problem until we change the things that are going on down there. >> okay. i mean, i don't agree that they should not allow people who are intoxicated in. i mean that is my opinion. the other thing that i wanted to ask you was. are you conditioned for the security guard? they are open seven days a week and they have extended hours to 3:00 a.m. seven days a week,

are you suggest thating they should have a security guard there 7 days a week? >> it should just be when they are exercising their 1070 privilege. so you want it there seven days a week? >> it is less of a problem during the week. but, when we are dealing with the thursday, friday and saturday nights, we would definitely want that. >> i want to be clear on what you really wanted. >> anybody have anything? >> yes, xhiser perez. >> intoxicated folks, or drunk, is this something that you are proposing just for broad way or something that we can apply all over san francisco. >> this is something that i asked for in another establishment on geary street that is going to come up on item 3 or 4, milan pis sa. >> is it just for pizza or could the restaurant or other establishments accept? >> what we are noticing is there a bit of a difference in the pizza places because you

are dealing with so much volume. you go to a typical restaurant that might have after hours where the people are sitting down and might order from the men and you the waitress will come up and it is over a extended period of time and the pizza is a grib grab and you go out in front on the sidewalk and you have the pizza and that is the problem waiting in line and get irritated and don't want to wait and they bump into each other and kind of when we deal with a bunch of drunks bad things happen. >> yes, so the first thing that i thought of when you said not to let drunks in, is the drunks getting angry at not being allowed to get into this pizza place and sober up at all and causing a problem on the sidewalk instead of being able to go inside and get their pizza. that was like the first thing that came to my mind. and secondly, in my estimation, being able to go in and eat

something, is what we call harm reduction. right? you are taking a little bit of harm out of their way by allowing them the ability to sober up some. and so, i think that i understand your concerns, but i also don't think that there is a whole lot of past issues at this spot, with these owners, that would show, that they now have to start deciding who can and cannot come in their establishment to have pizza. >> so, i think that, you know, i would rather see, people admitted and able to eat, than having the problems outside before they can even get in and that is just my take on it. >> okay. >> i look at this situation, similar to a nightclub. that they will have a line of people waiting to get in and you have got one guy that is intoxicated and going like this

falling over. they don't want him in there because he is going to cause problems inside of the nightclub. i look at a same situation there as the restaurant. >> so, could we change the language to say, severely intoxicated people instead of intoxicated people? >> i would think that the person who is doing the door would be the judge of that. >> just like at a nightclub. >> anybody else? >> well, i would add that i agree with the glendon is saying about the food. giving the people a chance to focus on something else for a short period of time and maybe call that a distraction, food is a mood stabilizer, if people are angry that could be low blood sugar in addition to the alcohol, there is a calming effect to eating. so i am in favor of the food,

and i think that like you said in that example, the clubs, the owner, is going to make a decision about they have the right to refuse service, so if somebody is too intoxicated to behave, than at that point it would be the owner who would make an individualized decision. and i am concerned about the idea of having food establishments then be required to go to lead training because then what would we do retroactively. ask all of our venues to do that

>> there is not that many seats inside, there is a lot of turnover, so they go out and eat in front of the place, when i walked in ten to 20 customers on the sidewalk. and the thing is, is, you know, we have, you know, clubs have a thing about controlling their sidewalks. and having an owner to be monitoring the front door is kind of a conflict of interest. so, any way, i am just saying is the food part, there should be somebody to monitor it and there is some extreme and maybe changing the language, but in my opinion, serving food, is good thing. controlling their flow is a responsibility n >> so that is the loit tering. >> this is a 1070 permit and they are required to monitor is that right? >> they are required to monitor

the premises? >> there will be a good neighbor policy i think is what you are referring to and also to clarify just for the purposes of your motion going forward that a few conditions, limits to 3:00 a.m.. >> right. >> and in 1070, there is no requirement for security. so if this commission is going on and oppose the security requirement they have to be specific in the conditions as well. so, a good neighbor policy, which is attached to 1070, talks about the area for garage and everything. a violation of that could suspend his 107 on permit and i am sure that that staff would give him information on the requirements of the 1070 permit. so i mean there is no loitering allowed any way. that is his job to take care of. >> and that i think it is just

like jack in the box. you know the owners are willing to have a security guard to mitigate the issues in the neighborhood. and i know that it is an impact, but, the bottom line is, you know, we are trying to calm things down on broad way and i think that commissioner hyde and we have been there many times in meetings to make everybody responsible on that block and i wanted to speak a little bit to the concept of interest. so, you, that commissioner and lee broad up. if we adopt conditions number one, pizza, shall hire at least one security guard. so if there is a security guard, that is working the door. and it is not someone who is hired to be security, then i believe that that takes away the conflict of interest of having a owner at the door. it would be a hired security

guard. hired to make that decision not somebody from inside of the restaurant. i think that they would have a..., that it would not be the owner trying to get as many people in, it would be a security guard hired to make that decision, and make sure that severely intoxicated people who might cause problems would stay out. >> so what you are suggesting is that the owner cannot be his own security guard, even if he got, i don't know, that is... i don't know that we can do that. >> we can't tell him how to run his business that way, can we? >> i am not sure, that we can do that, i know that a security guard whether he is the owner or not has to meet the qualifications with the state of california and it has to have a card and registered with the state of california. if he is going to be security guard you will have to get that certification or you are going to have to hire someone that does have that certification, if you feel there is going to be a conflict of interest because they are going to try to get as many people as he can

into that place to earn money. >> i was just speaking to it. >> yeah, i understand, either way, you are going to have to be certified to be a security guard, right? >> i am not sure that we can tell him who to hire. is what i am saying. if he chooses to get certified and be his own security guard, i don't think that we can tell him that he can't. i am not sure. what do you think? >> i think that you are right commissioner, and i also want to stress the fact that if the owner hires a security guard, there is still the obligation for that owner, and therefore, somewhere of this analysis that there is no conflict of interest... but i do think that your first point is the most relevant, which is i think that we could stipulate to having the security and have it be in certain nights of the week that you wish as far as who that might be as long as they follow

the law we can donate further than that, i didn't realize, i just never thought of an owner going and getting certified as a security guard you are right. >> okay. >> i have a question for officer, is there or have there been a record of any incidents directly related to this venue. >>a give you a specific number, but just the places or establishments on broad way, after 2:00 a.m. that it is just it is every weekend. >> sure. >> i mean, i am afraid that we are targeting one business, and i know that there are a couple here on broad way and two businesses that are going to be holding the responsibility of the entire block when they were not the ones serving alcohol f anything they are trying to sober up the folks that have been served alcohol. you know, i hope that the neighborhood, the block can come together and say how do we deal with security altogether. and not just single out these

single institutions and businesses to hold the lion's share of that problem. if anything, if there is a club that is 100 feet within or as a neighbor of that business, i wonder if their security could actually, do that monitor thating we are asking these folks to since they are the ones serving alcohol. hopefully that makes sense to people. because it just feels a little bit unfair. >> i would say that when we are trying to problem solve, you look at what the issues are. and one of the issues are the people hanging out after 2:00, and going to these establishments and the disturbances, the fights, the noise and the lit and her all of those things that are related to the establishments. it is not like we are saying, let's go after them. these are and we have been in talks for about a year and a half. as far as how do we deal with broad way? and still make it a destination

for entertainment? and still make it so it is safe, and a place that people want to go to. and this is one of the things that have come up in the community meetings and this is not just the police department and this has been and has broad support with the people in the community. >> officer, when this applicant came to you to make the application to talk to you? >> no. but i think that i know that a lot of the pizza places were discussed with the broad way meetings. >> my question was i just concerned about whether or not he understand the 13 conditions of the good neighbor policy because i didn't know if you gave them to him or not. if he didn't see you, there are 13 conditions to the good neighbor policy, which anybody that gets a permit from this condition must adhere to. and one of them for instance having sufficient toilets and

another one is cleaning up around the neighborhood and making sure that the street remains clean and it is called the good neighbor policy because you continue to be a good neighbor while having the privilege to operate your business. so if they don't adhere to the good neighbor policy, they are in violation of their extended hours permit and that is something that our enforcement officers would deal with, or you would if you were there as well. and i mean, for me there is an issue, before they did the viem to convict them. he has not had the permit yet. and he has not violated the conditions yet. we don't know that he is not going to be the perfect business and so that is just my opinion. >> commissioners, any other questions? for the officer? >> thank you, very much. >> i would like to open the floor to public comment on paris pizza, 448 broad way.

extended hours permit until 3:00 a.m.. >> seeing none, public comment is closed. a motion? >> somebody? >> do you want me to make a motion? >> yeah, make a motion or have a discussion. >> i motion to follow, i mean, aas far as the 3:00 is fine with me. having a trained security guard is very important. now, if they want to come back to us you know, and if things improve and they want to come back six months, i don't know. we can eliminate that. but at least thursday, friday, saturday, i would like, you know, impose what the police have said. trained security has some training in knowing alcohol-related problems. so that would solve their

number three. but, you know, i would motion to approve it with the good neighborhood policy. with the police condition, and hiring a certified security guard at the door to monitor their sidewalks. to monitor how many people going into their place because there is not that many and once they get their pizza they go on the way. >> just make the motion. >> okay. >> make the motion. >> is there a second to the motion? >> i will second it. >> okay. we have a second. we open for discussion. so for me, i will not support your motion. i do not think that i want to go with the part of the condition that says they will not admit intoxicated people so i can't support that motion. i also can't support a motion where the owner does not have the opportunity to get certificated to be his own security. i do support the fact that he should have security thursday,

friday, saturday. for sure, if he is really dead on monday or tuesday. he may not even stay open until 3:00 a.m. that is his option. but i mean, for me, that is how i feel. the rest of the police conditions are fine. commissioner hyde? >> i don't agree with number three. i just don't feel that it is... i feel like it is a slippery slope talking about that. and i think that we have to allow the businesses to make their own decisions and so i don't really support three. >> anybody else? >> discuss >> akers? >> i also don't support three and i discussed earlier. but i have concerns about requiring a family-owned business, a small business to hire outside security. and i guess one of my questions is, if we said that the owner

could get registered and trained, what is the process of that? and would we be saying that their permit would not be applicable until that was completed? >> it would be a condition of the permit that they would have to complete that. >> how long does it take? >> i think that they are given often. and if there is a fee, involved, to the best of my understanding, it is a course described to by the department of consumer affairs, i believe that is correct. you go to the training i believe that it is a one-day training. i don't know how many hours in a day, i actually had guard training but it was a really long time ago and i think that it has changed. so it is no more than one day. there is a small fee. and then you get certified and you discuss and get certified and fingerprinted and then, you are done. >> and my memory is not as

great as it should be, but, so that i would be wondering are we then going to go forward with requiring this of all broad way venues of all pizza venues and what... has this been a condition for other food venues in the past that i don't remember? and so, if you... >> in order to have security, you must have a certified security guard it does not matter if it is the owner it does not matter if it is outside, the security has to be certified. if no security required there is no certification necessary. if there is someone acting as security they have to be certified. >> with jack in the box there were so many complaints with that and it was... there were a lot of issues particular to that venue. and so in this venue, the pizza

place is supplying now there isn't any and it is an over all issue on broad way. so my certain echos commissioner tan's around are we really solving the root issue or we just penalizing a small business? >> that say good point. >> i mean, it goes by the history. i mean, we could probably if you want have the officer come up with all of the cad calls that are related to that area. i just as my personal, as a person going there, and seeing it for my eyes what is going on down there, okay, granted maybe, we should ask and we saw 13 good neighborhood policies, to give them a chance to go ahead and do his thing and make it in compliance. and obviously they have been doing it for five years and it is a lot of times people don't understand what the new rules are. and i guess that is goes by and

jack in the box there were some problems and the owners were willing to do that, i think that in this situation, because when you go down there, the sidewalks, i mean, literally, they are eating on the street. there is nobody outside to get them going. you know? and having somebody there, helps, because i don't think all of the police resources are supposed to be there security. if they are working on the street eat and they throw the paper away in front of the parking lot the paper that they got at the pizza parlor who is going to clean up that paper. but if they eat in front where there might be a trash can or they are required by the condition of one of the conditions of the good neighbor policy to clean up it would be incumbent on the pizza place to clean up that piece of litter. i mean that again, if you are damned if you do and if you don't. >> i am all into giving them a

shot. if you guys feel that, okay, they are under a new jurisdiction, i mean that they were serving after i told them not to, okay? after 2:00 and you know, they are saying that i was out of town. something to consider, if we are to giving them an opportunity and they can get the license suspended to not following the good neighbor policy i am okay with it. you know, obviously if i am against it. >> i used to own a pizza place and i served people out through the window and got them on their way. so i know that it is like serving late night. but in this situation, you know, clubs are getting nailed by the sfpd about blocking sidewalks. my neighbors have to walk sometimes in the street and i don't like that, so i am pushing my own customers against the wall.

obviously the good neighborhood policy would take care of that and so we will have to see. >> okay, commissioners we have a motion on the floor. so we have to vote on this motion. >> and vote it up and down. >> everybody clear on the motion? >> was there an amendment to the motion? >> no. no amendment to this motion. >> we are voting on this motion up or down. >> go for it. >> did you type the motion? >> could you read it? >> the motion was... was it not that to accept the police conditions. >> yes. the motion was to improve the good neighbor policy and the police conditions. >> all three conditions. >> the complete or all four police conditions. >> there are four police conditions. >> four. >> i would like to request a friendly amendment to the motion. >> okay.

>> go ahead. >> i would like to scratch condition number three. and also condition number one to not be california registered security. am i reading this right? >> yes. >> number one. >> okay. >> condition one and three. >> okay. >> it is scratched. >> does the maker of the motion accept the amendment? >> i don't. >> okay >> call the motion. >> could we make a friendly amendment? >> okay, number three, kaoem keep one and two. >> i am okay with that. >> is the second okay with that. >> i made the second and so i am okay with it. >> could i clarify something? >> condition one does not list the hours that the security would have to be there, i know in the past we have said the times. >> it says 1070 privileges.

>> is that as long as they are open. >> no, it is extended hours, after 2:00 a.m. and that is the one hour between two and three. >> okay. >> on thursday, friday and saturday. >> no, condition number one does not indicate, thursday, friday, saturday it just says all of the time. does it not. >> i said, thursday, friday, saturday. >> okay. so the motion is that number one would be only thursday, friday, saturday. >> everybody? >> everybody clear the motion was amended, and seconded. commissioner tan? >> aye. >> commissioner lee? >> aye. >> commissioner hyde? >> aye. >> perez. >> aye. >> akers? >> aye. >> joseph. >> aye. >> good luck. >> maybe the next one will go better. >> now that we have an idea. >>