design earthquakes that we use to think about what is the reasonable earthquake and then we have the maximum possible earthquake, like the 1906. >> 500-year retu6-cycle. >> i take it back. most wood frame buildings, probably pre-existed before code >> which was in the early 70's? >> they had requirements in the 50's and 60's. we don't consider building code until 1973. major buildings, was designed by a genious and it was ahead of the time. they required an engineer. smaller buildings, you didn't need an engineer on all of

them. >> basically, if your building was built before early 70's. it's likely to have some earthquake resistance and resilience of the cost of construction. it wasn't specifically designed to with with stand and earthquake. >> most of the sun stream homes. these are track homes, mostly built to speck homes. built the way they always built. they have a degree of earthquake resistance. >> they have a tendency to pound together and the buildings in the middle survive because the earthquake isn't long enough. the individual at the end of the block is like the book at the end of shelf. they fall over and the next one falls over. >> in the marina.

we saw corner believes collapse. >> there are 2 ways to look at earthquakes. i think each one of us wants to know how our house, where we live is going to perform. we also need to look at how the city is going to perform. pat makes a good point, most the newer buildings will perform better. keep in mind, the studies we have done certainly show is that most the vulnerable buildings will be residential. half of the residential units were built before world war ii. we have a very old housing stock. we have the oldest housing stock this side of mississippi. and that's where our problems are most likely to be. >> i going to test the

microphone and ask people how you expect your home to perform. >> anybody who wants to share. tell us, what kind of building. do you live in a wood frame >> yes >> after a major earthquake. what's your expectation. >> i am afraid from last year's earthquake class, you mentioned. the house might pop to the street because my garage is empty. >> is it in the middle of the block? >> middle. >> there's less chance. sir, what kind of building do you live in? >> i live in an apartment if ground floor parking. >> in the middle of the block,

corner. >> corner. >> are there openings on both sides? >> yes. on both sides. >> it's a wood framed building? >> it seems to be a hybrid. with concrete and steel and wood frame on top of that. >> we don't often see that. modern buildings have a podium. >> what neighborhood are you in >> dolores park. >> you will hit the lake. if are in the dolores, you are in pretty good shape. >> what is your expectation of what your building is going to be like after a major

earthquake? >> i am really not sure. that's my concern. >> i see. this gentlemen is correct. his concern is his building. you have to look at it block by block. you can see that the edges of the fill area vary block by block. let me point out in cole valley, there was an old pond and an amusement park with a trolley. that pond was filled in, that's a potential liquify site. so we have to look at the soil. >> there are area that is are fascinating.

westportal, there was a creek that flowed all the way down to pig lake. i think that's what the spanish called it. there was a deep ravine. they filled it in with the tunnel muck and they filled in the ravine and built houses. the other area is really interesting, down 18th street. there was a creek coming from eureka. there is a street called pond. it's not a coincidence. >> part of what we're going too try to do is update this map and give it historical data.

there are more significant data. >> how do you know if your individual lot? >> one is these lines are very clearly defined as boundaries. they don't actually mean, this is the exact edge. you could be on one side or the other. it's not okay here and not okay 10 feet away. but, on the other hand, we have taken this map, which was published by the state and digitized it so if any portion lies within these zones. if you tell me your address, i can tell you whether you lie it in. >> there's a book. >> 558-6205 and the clerk or me will take the book and look it up and say, yes, you lie within

a particular zone >> i am the manager of a large condo minnium project. it was built in 1963. it's steel and concrete >> there's a difference between structural steel and rebarb. >> it's steel columns. thank you goodness. >> 19 stories and i live across the street in a building that was built i believe in 1920 and i brought my staff here because we want to, as a team, be prepared with our building and the owners who live there. >> so her question is, how can someone find out what they should be prepared for? >> the first thing is to see if

the there are original plans for their building >> should they hire someone >> someone need to verify if you are structural steel frame. there's a high likelihood there's a plan. if you are a concrete frame, you have a set of concerns. >> the first thing, i recommend everybody do this. get a complete set of documents for your building from accessor's office and other office in a city and put them in a notebook and you have all your documents. here, you can ask to get all the permits, plans, job cards, sign off sheets. special inspection.

get everything. there's no reason why the city should be a source of this. then, if you ever want to be a building expansion, you have the documents. you can have that done as well. >> you said something about getting plans for your building. what if you are in one of the 50 percent that were built a long time ago? i have a 1903 building >> most the plans and permits for pre-1906 were destroyed in the fire. except for the larger buildings. many of the plans are available in berkeley. most of those were destroyed. >> there's not much there.

>> you can also go back and get original water department records >> actually, the story is, the city had 2 water companies that were privately owned. spring valley and another one. their headquarters were at crystal springs. that was actually the ceo. he wanted to build his house. their stuff was held outside of the city. after the 06 earthquake, one of the reports by the city was, all the fire hydrants were tied to spring valley.

the city said this is crazy. they actually put in a second war supply and municipalized. all the records were transferred to the water department, they are at 1155 market and they are all the way back to 1868. it will be $0.37 to hook up with your water >> also on your question, the cost in having a structural engineer take a look at your building is a very, very small percentage of the building's value. i think whether we have a large

condominium, your building is static and the type of soil you're silting on and certain types of deterioration, and once you have that inspection done, you will sleep much better and make rational decisions on how you want to priorityize. >> i totally agree with you, the plans are part of the history. would i be able to get them? >> they have the water hook up and the date your building was legalized. >> if it's an apartment building, most engineers know where you are in the soil conditions and can give you an

expectation of the performance. most wood frame believes do well on the first, second and third floors. the upper stores act as a rigid block. but the garage level is an open floor plate. the total drift is a thing you can look at without paying too much attention. if the building is stiff. instead of it being uniform, can all be forced to that lowest story. you are standing someone knocks your knees out and you fall down. can happen to soft

ory buildings. >> i think a lot of us don't pay enough attention to the nonstructural damage. here we this room, nonstructural damage can be to the sealing, so a story. tday the marriott bar at the top. up at the top of building, it swayed back and forth and the ceiling planes shaved off a sp top floor. >> it's a big problem. in north ridge, uge

problem. there was tremendous losses because your shoot rock gets wet. it's like having a flood. we are all the issue in san francisco and make recommendations. whether it responds and does well. the subsequent issue is fire, which we haven't talked about here. with fire goes gas line breaks and water line breaks not being able to protect the structure once it happens. all those utility things come into play. as a homeowner's association, you have to anticipate as a resident of san francisco, there's going to be a lot of ground deformation and our

utilities will have problems. we recently had window storms and while pg and e has done a wonderful job, there will be breaks. you will be able to camp in your argument. it would be like you went away for a long time for a camping trip. you will be able to change the thinking about where people go. one of the big issues in katrina, people were forceed to evacuate. if we had a large fire. we might have to force an evacuation. >> one the things we're trying to develop is an expectation,

this is our bottom line expectation for building performance. your building, while it might not be damaged. will it be sufficient to camp out it? >> we are not quite there yet. >> that's the kind of expectation. >> i think we should pass this along to the audience. there should be design standards. there's a discussion, what should our design standards be for new construction? and the building department, we on caps are going to say, what standards should those be? and there's a group of us that have come up with a concept that hasn't been universally adopted of at some point in the

future, this might be 15, 20, 25 years out, where our retrofits and our renovations are implemented at that point. it's not going to happen within next week. but where occupants of buildings, 95 percent of the population can expect to shelter in place within 12 hours of an earthquake. that's where a group of us feel we should be designing towards. who's going to benefit? these are details of what we're trying to figure out and address. >> as a general contractor, i see hundred year old buildings and they have brick foundation or inadequate foundation. minimal concrete. everything is done with stainless steel and granite.

but the next door neighbor could have brand-new. you are still vulnerable. i understand on commercial buildings we have umb restrictions. otherwise the city will come in. >> if someone fails to upgrade, we with would make them do it. >> what about residential? if you have a monster next to you? >> there are no retroactive requirements. i think i might take issue with a next door neighbor. >> my client should hire someone. but you have a monster on full

bricks. >> you can, if you have a risk, next to a very tall building, that building can give you hazards. you can also be on the other extreme. i would tell you to leave the brick building in place. the performance of your building will be way on down the food chain. i would also say that just because your building survived a 1906 earthquake, >> it wasn't a big earthquake. the building was built in 1989. there are a lot of large buildings that did and there are a lot of didn't. >> i can talk to our insurance agent and says this is a serious one that comes up.

we would not have enough to pay with everybody in the area. >> that has to do with cea. the amount of money they have in reserves is based on a 20-year return cycle. they haven't had 20 years >> our buildings are 80 or 90 areas old. our agents said, we will merely pay you $120 per square foot. if that should fall down, we won't be able to pay out every client. it doesn't make sense. that's why we choose not to purchase >> there are a lot of things that come into play with that. when you pay a premium, you are paying into a reserve. so the cea builds up a reserve.

they can't build up the reserve otherwise. that's how their building it. the national flood insurance is a public pool. the same thing is true there. they didn't have enough in their reserves to pay out the returns. congress had to pass legislation to authorize the replenishment. that's how these pools are set up. government is involved in how the additional funding comes. i am not specific with how it works in california. part of the reason states are putting this up as opposed to a company that does this. >> so, how do we as a

homeowners or renters know who is a sound structural engineer? >> how about i answer since i'm not an engineer. you can take comfort, we in san francisco have the largest community of seismic activity and structural engineers. we have a lot of concerned citizens that aren't engineers that are asking questions like you're asking. i think the essential questions on how your building is going to do, there's going to be a lot of consensus on any group of engineers on how your building is likely to perform in terms of getting on the margins of the issues, the

percentage of damage your building might have or specific issues in terms of repair, there might be agreement on that. i think the science and the art are to the point for the big questions and big answers, there's a lot of consensus on that. i would take comfort on that. >> i agree with that. >> i think it was a joke, engineers talking about them. our buildings are not that difficult to access. people would be able to point out 90 percent with clear consensus. there might be differences on details like brick foundation. there are things people would see as unique. you should have comfort, i don't know, if it's the

registered structural >> it's abag.gov. within the earthquake section, there's information about retrofitting wood structures and a list of engineers. a lot of these are single family. i think there are engineers listed there too. i might be wrong. it's a great resource and the associations staff went through and looked at them. if you are a contractor, you might want to get in there. it's free advertising. >> i have to say, in san

francisco, we have so many difficult buildings. these are all one off buildings. it requires an engineer to take a look. >> not just a contractor >> not just prioritize. >> just going straight to a contractor. >> i said that with a caveat. that's for a single-family, cripple wall, >> yes, i am a contractor. i find in the public, there's a lot of confusion. could you talk about the generally standards of retrofitting. i think people need to understand, the generally accepted standards to which you can strengthen a building.

>> basically, there's a spectrum all the way from 1886, whatever their performance might be. meet what the state of the art is or what the future code might be. we have this range of potential. someone says, i needed code. you mean 1908? 1930. or 2007 or proposed 2009. so there's a huge spectrum. san francisco has made a determination. >> officially retrofitted. >> it should be 75 percent of the current 2007 code. okay. 75 percent, we say, we're going

to call that collapse prevention standard. >> you can out least stay in your house >> it will be referencing this standard. 75 percent of the current code. it's a real wide range. if you use the special procedures, you could find it for bricks and each type of buildings and structures. >> there are buildings that have been retrofitted and as a group, we say, maybe they are not deserving of being called 104 s buildings. if you are a licensed structural engineer, you can give people some idea. if you retrofit the garage, you

can stay in the upper floors. then it becomes an art. you want to talk to a structural engineer. some of the high rise buildings, we were able to accurately model it down to 7 figures. we designed buildings down to that level the accuracy. it's an art and you want to talk to someone that does this for a living. >> i couple of final comments. one the best things is to help you prioritize. pat and i have looked at