rented bedrooms to interview people in in a hotel. we need a lot of little rooms and they typically don't have the kind of meeting space that we need. and we would use a hotel room, which is not optimum, but i am sorry that the budget analyst does not feel that we have answered questions, we will answer any questions. >> is there any way that the dhr could break out from what use of hotel rooms is used for people to stay in when they are visiting and what is for actual testing, is there a difference one one in the sao*im same. >> the money that we provided and the $30,000 was for testing rooms no. for accommodations. and that is what we have been studying annually for just the fire promotional. and we also, and i think that this perhaps, we did not do a good job explaining our need for it. but, we really want to be able to have our continuous testing and police and fire on a regular basis, and where we

could get the groups together, of people from the community, and come to this location, to do our or to participate in the continue of assessing, if we don't have the facility to do it there, then people have to go to san jose or some other location to do it. so, the other and another just point that we provided to the budget analyst is that we have additional computers to use because we got them from the virtual warehouse from child support services. but we don't have a place to set them up right now with the additional space. >> and so i would be very happy to if we had a specific, you know, what the specific questions are, and we want to answer them and i was not aware until yesterday that there were any unanswered question or a belief of an unanswered question, we think that this makes economic sense and good policy sense and so we would ask for your assistance in this. >> so, one last question, if we were going to be able, and they

were going to approve additional space for testing, at this site, would we see the budget for renting hotel space come down? >> i mean,... >> yes. >> i mean... >> is that the fiscal year. >> i would say that, let's see, our director of public safety testing is here, but dave, we would completely eliminate any need of a testing space in a hotel? >> the cost savings? >> supervisors, dave johnson manager of the public safety team. we have one rank in each of the police and fire and sheriff where in the size of the applicant pool would even exceed a new space. and although, there are one exam in each department that we give approximately every four years where in we will likely have to rent the hotel space to do testing. the other exams there are two exams in each department where

in the current space does not accommodate our needs, but moving down to the first floor would. so we anticipate immediately, 30,000 a year of not spending on hotels, because we don't need those testing rooms. >> thank you. >> yes, supervisor, avalos, to the chair, for the budget analyst office. i do want to say that the department and the human resource and mr. updike had lengthy conversations with me and so it was not like there was not a lot of discussion. i think that the two concerns and one is this $30,000 in hotel space, the final e-mail i got was that there would be no savings in terms of that $30,000 a year. and there was an e-mail after the one that was just referenced and i just think that would have made a difference if we felt there were some other cost savings that would have been incurred by the space. i think that the other things is that a number and i know that a lot of the discussion was about recruitment for fire and police and exams for those

recruitments. and the promotional exams. my understanding was there was going to be two promotional exams in the coming year and maybe 19 over the following four years. and it did not seem like a very large number for us to justify the space. so some of it was simply how we looked at the numbers and there needs to be clarification because i did receive an e-mail saying that there would be no savings in terms of that $35,000, that they are currently using. >> with permission, i don't know, perhaps, that was miscommunicated. i don't know, i don't have that e-mail here. we believe that there is savings, dave has described those savings and they will add significantly reduce our reliance on hotel rooms for testing for those exams and i would note that we have a commitment for use from gsa to use the testing rooms for some of their large events. and so, we think that it also

provides the opportunity for when it fits into our schedule, for testing, that we are able to have the departments use them and they don't have to go to the outside of the city as well. >> mr. chairman, actually if the department is committing that they are going to save the $30,000 in the hotel rooms, we would recommend approval. if the department is suggesting that the board of supervisors request the controller to submit rescinding legislation of the moneys that you just appropriated in this year's next year budget, this year, now, beginning july 1, then we would recommend approval of this item. we are not... there is... the only way that you can get savings is you have to take it out of the budget. and savings does not just materialize, you have appropriated the funds and now you have to rescind the funds.

>> we are prior to sign the leases of the legislation to determine whether or not there were funds available. and in this particular instance, before i sign this, we checked to determine whether or not there was money, there is not money in the line item, but there is money in other places in their operating budget, that the department has committed to transferring in order to fund this increase, should this lease go through. so that is a commitment from the department and from the controller's office that there is not going to be an ask for additional funds in this year, for this increased space, they will have to make reductions in other places. >> and you can identify where the reductions would be from? >> at the staff level, we did talk about the reductions for other leased space, but there could be other savings as well in other places. >> mr. chairman, we are not

disputing the source of funds for the lease, for the increased cost of the lease at all. our point is that the department is now stating that they will be able to save money by not having to rent as much for hotel space. and that money is now in the budget. the only way that you can take that out of the budget is to rescind it and that will require separate legislation. if the department is in agreement with that and the board of supervisors wants to do that, we would recommend approval of it. >> let me suggest one thing at this point. given our break off and so forth, again, might i suggest that we forward this to the full board in the next ensuing six days we could have a discussion and we could get the cost savings estimates and whether we do rescind legislation or end up with a surplus at the end of the year we can figure out how to deal with that. and i am not concerned about that, but we could get details so we are not having a back and forth today and get to the bottom of this i would imagine.

>> would that be okay from your perspective. >> yes, at the pleasure of the board. >> supervisor mar? >> i am actually very supportive of that process, i know that it is only six short days, but my hope is that as much of that information that miss campbell and mr. rose just laid out that your office can provide as much of that justification as possible and even for me to understand that $30,000 whether or how much of it is going to be savings and how much might not be savings as well, but data would be helpful and i am just wondering why there was not maybe more of an effort to get the information to the budget analyst so that we did not have to go through this some what confusing discussion here right now. okay. >> and if i could respond. i think that we were not aware that it was, there was particular controversy associated with it. we believe that we had answered

the questions and we will attempt to answer the questions and we hope that we can get specifically what the questions are. and i think that we have contemplated this savings in our budget the $30,000 and i think that we will certainly provide additional information and follow up with miss campbell and she will undoubtly tell us exactly what metrics are needed and we hope that you will find them compelling. >> supervisor avalos? >> thank you. when you say contemplated, the same in the budget meaning that you actually had budgeted $30,000 less? or rented space? >> i just confirmed that with, not with... no, for the hotel costs yes, if we have this space over here, that we will not so much hotel over there, yes. >> and i do believe that there is other ways that cost savings can be measured or found, and one is the appropriation, and there is also just carrying forward as well, and you don't

spend as much money as you budgeted and but i would let this and i am okay, you know, getting the information for next tuesday. and so moving forward, with this now. >> and last question that i have is when you do your testing and all of that, there is no work orders? dhr, it is your budget to do testing for the departments. for hiring staff for a departments in a city, it is just part of your budget authority; is that correct?. >> it depends on what kind of exam, but generally yes, we have the public safety and the funds to do the police testing and the fire testing for the public safety side, and further exams for the city wide exams we run them in sometimes departments provide if they want us to run an exam they will fund that if they are the ones who needed it etc.. but generally, sometimes we split the cost, if the big exam would be supported perhaps by the documents that need to hire custodians and dpw and real

estate and pec etc.. >> and so the police and fire don't pay for that. >> well we have that in the budget because we took over that whole testing program. >> thank you. >> just the last thing, is confusing is perhaps, a miscommunication coming from your office or a conflicting information on that last e-mail that miss campbell raised saying that the 30,000 was in the savings or even just the clarity on that would be helpful for me. >> we would be happy to provide that. >> okay. thank you. >> colleagues any further questions or discussion? i want to thank dhr and our budget analysts office for their work and continue work on this in the next few days, at this point we will open it up to public comment? anybody wish to comment on item 26? >> seeing none, public comment is closed. and okay, colleagues, if you have a motion to this to the full board without recommendation. we can do that without opposition. >> as referred without recommendation. >> correct. >> mr. clerk, do we have any

other business in front of us? >> that completes the agenda to today. have a great break, everyone we are adjourned.

i'm nicole and lindsey, i like the fresh air. when we sign up, it's always so gratifying. we want to be here. so i'm very excite ied to be here today. >> your volunteerism is appreciated most definitely. >> last year we were able to do 6,000 hours volunteering. without that we can't survive. volunteering is really important because we can't do this. it's important to

understand and a concept of learning how to take care of this park. we have almost a 160 acres in the district 10 area. >> it's fun to come out here. >> we have a park. it's better to take some of the stuff off the fences so people can look at the park. >> the street, every time, our friends. >> i think everybody should give back. we are very fortunate. we are successful with the company and it's time to give back. it's a great place for us. the weather is nice. no rain. beautiful san

francisco. >> it's a great way to be able to have fun and give back and walk away with a great feeling. for more opportunities we have volunteering every single day of the week. get in touch with the parks and recreation center so come