about that is how normal it can be in a school where the climate is poor where bullying thrives and lives and is tolerated in all sorts of subtle or more obvious ways, just how easy it is for those kids to behave that way. so it's a very telling scene and from my perspective, you know, we broke the rules of documentary film making afterwards and we took that footage to the school and to alex's parents and it really changed the course of the movie. those of you who have seen the movie really know things shifted after that point. but it was really hard to be on that bus and to see that happening to alex. >> having seen the follow-up to what you're talking about, i want lee to tell you about the

consequences to the boys who got called in. were there consequences? >> yeah, i mean, you see a type of disciplining that happens afterwards which was -- really, it was amazing. it felt like they didn't even want to deal with it. the only reason they actually dealt with it because i was in their face going are you guys going to deal with this? are you actually going to call in any of these kids? there was such a kind of yawn response to it. the discipline was pretty -- very weak in many ways. but so it calls forth for me as an example about school climate that i learned over the course of my year of shooting in that school because people talk about school climate all the time and i think it's hard to grasp, right? although i know

that this is a room of people that do deal with this and think about this all the time, but i will just share this one anecdote, which is during the course of that year, this is -- now frame this up against alex has just been assaulted by 10 kids on the bus, he's a kid with special needs, he has been bullied for years, he can barely speak without his lips shaking, i mean there's obviously something going on with this kid, right? but the response is a yawn. now a few weeks earlier $15 was stolen from a teacher in the building and the response was not a yawn, it was a 5-alarm fire. there were literally police cars came, lights on, sirens on, to the building. the principal who you never see in our movie because you never see, we saw that day running up and down the halls, they were pulling kids out of classes, they were lining them up, this school is

on lockdown until that thief was caught. guess what? what message do you think those kids got about stealing? we don't do it at this middle school. it's not okay. and all that same time that, like, subtle messaging around bullying is, we don't care about this. that's the best example i have from what i saw about how those messages are really conveyed to the kids because that trust issue is so important. i mean i screened, we have been screening the film across the country for school districts, this wonderful program i'm really proud of called one million kids it see bully. we were in cleveland and after the q and a student came up and said explain the bullying

that's going on, what do i do? i didn't want to give him a crap answer because i'm gone in two minutes. i said, who do you trust in the building? he said, nobody. i don't trust any educator in my building to help me. and it was interesting because there was a gentleman who had organized a screening who was himself a victim of bullying who had just spoken on stage to this group and i felt him really deeply, he was so committed, he was so passionate, so i said to this student, i said, what about mr. so and so? he's, like, i just never, the trust was so burnt that he wasn't willing it even try again. so i just -- more anecdotes. >> that's really helpful.

ros, one of the things we talked about before we came up here, kids think this is all a joke until they get more information and a lot of parents think this is a joke too and maybe some parents are coddling their children. >> as i do the work around the country that i do, i am concerned about how bullying is being politicized and that it's therefore losing its power, that we really are in this incredible place of opportunity where a lot of people are galvanized, here we are in this room. but we're right at this place where i think you get coopted into nothingness very easily. and the way in which that comes across is in, where people say to me, well, people are going to get into fights, people are going to get into

conflict, teachers are now saying to me, not every conflict is bullying and the policy is every single concept is bullying and it's not so i don't know what to do. this is making me cez. . the policies of it that i hear when i do radio shows, come on, this is the way we do all this stuff, a little jockeying back and forth. here is what i'm saying to people that's working in the areas where that's really a part of the culture. i say to them, bullying prevention programs are not coddling, it's actually the opposite. if done well we know that conflict is inevitable. you are going to get into conflicts with people, you are. and abuse of power is probably inevitable, too. at some point in your life you are going to go up against it. so what a good bullying prevention program does is teach social competency to manage those moments better. that's what this is. forget

about the word bullying. honestly, don't think about it, put it to your side, don't think about it now. what we are doing is we want our children to be prepared to handle conflict so they are not so anxious just like everybody is when you are dealing with conflict. when you did that, it becomes a moment of saying to somebody, it triggers everybody's desire, regardless of your political persuasion, about self-responsibility and independence. i find that to be a very helpful way to market this issue. the second thing that i think is important about this is to meet it head-on where it is, meaning i get it, i understand that you feel that we are losing, we are losing its content. and the reason it was sort of i think somebody said it this morning, is about the word drama. kids are not using the word bullying any more because bullying triggers adult involvement, maybe, right? also you are weak, you are

still perceived as being weak or targeted for some things identifying you as being bullied. if you use the word drama you don't have to take it seriously. i just want to put out for those people that drama is pretty much connected in my experience to girls' anger. it's a way of superficializing girls' anger and their conflict with each other. in my experience the last couple years certainly girls fighting in school is knew mayorally higher than a lot of the schools working with boys because there's more girl fights than boy fights and not fights. i don't want to be on the other end of that pufrplg, punch, say it that way. we have to watch the way this is morphing in the culture and the culture of young people so that drama is actually a word they are using to get away from defining it as something that they have to interact with us about.

so that's something that coddling and drama is something i think we need to pay particular attention to. also, for goodness sake, it is true, conflict is inevitable and people are going to do things, they are going it try to silence you, people are going to be cruel. you have to be prepared and it's not in this kind of i'm going to meet it with ult ultimatum but handle it with dignity. it's more mature to young people because bullying often comes across as something little kids have or people who are really socially isolated have. they want to be mature, teenagers are dealing with the most complicated problems they are ever going to deal with, ever, so if we talk to them in ways of giving them competency skulls skills that is reflective of their life, then

we have them. for example, one of the things i'm really looking for now is using the viking hunters open letter in response to the maryland politician who requested that the ravens player who supported gay marriage and gay people be quiet. there's a letter that a marin politician send to a ravens guy, linebacker, huge guy, saying please muzzle your player. it was written on his stationary, his official stationary. so what happened tt punter for the vikings wrote a scathing, horribly scathing like only a fipbl-year-old super smart kid could be so scathing, wrote an open letter that was bordering on really not appropriate, about this and about constitutional rights and not only about supporting people

and giving them dignity for whoever they were, but also about freedom of expression. now, you want to get boys to talk about equality in a classroom? you start from a letter that a vikings punter sent. that's where we also get into u.s. history and this is where we get into core rur can urriculum. this is about freedom of speech, it makes it relevant, it goes right into something that kids are already seen on espn so they are already primed to talk about it. that's the kind of stuff i think we need to be looking at so we get this bullying stuff out of their head and they see relevance instead. >> anyone want to take some questions? i want to start with a young student. >> everyone needs to read that letter. it is shocking.

>> alexis, are you here? you want to come up here? come on. don't be shy, nobody's going to bite. >> let's give her some encouragement here. we've heard from adults all day long, we want to hear from somebody who is -- come over here, young lady. my name is cheryl, thank you for being here. we have some great guests who care about you, everybody in this room cares about you. you have been through some training. you have a question for our guests? >> no, but i want to thank you for doing this. thank you. without this we'd be back at scare one. >> thank you. >> have you seen bullying at your school? can you tell us a little about that? >> i don't have bullying like at the movie but it's kind of like, oh, she wore this, so. >> did somebody in your school do something about it? >> not really. the teachers

don't see it. >> nobody wants to say anything to the teachers so they don't think this is a big deal. >> yeah. >> you've been through training to stop bullying so what does that mean? >> we'll try to stop it and we'll try to get them to stop saying those things. >> have you done that so far? have you been able to intercede? >> yeah. >> what happened? >> they stopped. >> nobody did anything bad to you? >> no. >> how did that make you feel? >> good. >> good job. thank you so much, honey. >> there are two things that she raises that i just want to highlight. one is the role of the teacher, what they can do and what can the peers do. i think one of the truisms that teachers need to remember, they know they just need to remember it,.

. >> their leadership as a team is compromised so whatever that team is, the football team, the basketball, the student counsel, the peer leaders. if the peer leader doesn't do the right thing -- and this is my initiative and if you don't do the right thing you don't look like what know what you're doing and that isn't cool and you didn't do your job that well, if we get in these ambassador programs and give them training and rigor and how difficult that moment can be you can transform a school because of the power

of kids talking to each other. >> all right. do we have another question? >> i appreciate that point you have been making. been, wooing with the board and the foundation and launch the student advisory board and i think we need to get that training kicked in really fast and that's a point well taken, and i appreciate lee you showing that clip because it illustrates an important distinction that we need to make. we don't want to send the message to america that bullying is normative; that bullying is normal, and that clip illustrated that the school is sending that message, and there is a difference, an important distinction between the school sort of embodying and sending the message to the kids that bullying is just a part of growing up and believing that

bullying in our school is normative because it simply isn't. the data shows bullying is going down and that is not a popular thing to say these days. bullying is a very important social problem that we need to fix, but it is not an epidemic and it's not on the rise and neither is cyber bullying and the top scholars in the country and in social science and psychology that saying that, so that's an important distinction so thank you both so much. >> and there is that and -- there's a balance between -- i mean when i hear that bullying is going down i mean all of us should rejoice because that to me is indicative of the fact of the work in communities across the country are starting to pay off, but it's going to be hard

in this ark and we are in this area and people are coming forward, kids are coming forward . suicides that would have been kept forward or not reporting and we're learning thanks to rapid fire and thanks to social networking or facebook and this is a sued -- all of this the -- the volume of bullying is going to rise in proportion with i think the actual drop in occurrences so to balance that and be aware of that i think is important. >>i totally agree, and that's really to rosylyn's point about this being a very, very important moment and we need to did it right. just on the subject of suicide the surgeon general came out this week and

there was a usa today story and suicide and especially among veterans right now and suicide is complex and we cannot send the message -- there is a lot of fear out there right now that bullying leads to suicide and suicide is complex and 90% of people who take their lives have mental health problems and there are rarely a single factor and that is something your film has been criticized for. >> sure. >> and some of the kids had other factors involved besides bullying and i think we have to be really careful. we need to talk about suicide. it's a public health problem. it's out there. >> but there are people that silence the confidence about suicide -- conservation about suicide and is dangerous as well. >> we ave a estion.

>> i do research in this area. i want to thank you both of you and your film and bringing vast awareness to this. one of my concerns is the national discourse unfolds we want to get tough on bullying and the more severe the consequences are, high stakes consequence and it is anti-bullying laws and et cetera it is more likely children are actually not going to speak up, and it causes this sweeping under the rug and i just think this needs to be addressed and i wanted to thank you for your comment about connecting the false assumption that bullying is always linked to suicide. that's something that was talked about at the federal summit that we need to separate these two issues out to some extent and one of the things -- well, i will just ask -- i guess my question is -- sorry. so much to share --

>> i thought something that was interesting and i am trying to remember what i wanted to say i wanted to say our approaches are converging in opposite ways and students feel safe to get the bullying addressed but the policies are punitive and high stakes and we know that zero tolerance is not the case and makes things work and gives a one week vacation. you can leave school for a week, have fun and when you come back you get to do what you did before. thank you. >> thanks. one thing i always thought disciplining kids you is you have to get create and i have have systems in place and one thing i have always done with administrators if you want to make the bully feel like

they're being held responsible then take away their appearance of social power. what that means is in every school that i ever been to there is always a place where that -- kids have places they hang out; right? so if you have a kid that is aggressive or bullying someone they have a place they hang out. do not let that person hang out there. you can get into the most ridiculous conversations with the kid "no, you don't get to sit on the senior bench this year. no you don't. you're 18 and i know you're about to have a petition and a protest and i'm not going to let you sit on the seor position and especially if the child has high social power and they sit where people can see them. it's their place. some are waiting to get on that bench since freshman year, so if they do something inappropriate

and don't allow them to participate as a member of the community. that is way worse than a two day suspension and everyone sees. you don't need to blanket it out and no, you don't get to sit on the bench and being creative that way is helpful and another thing i learned from the principal and i was stuck and working with boys and boys are complex and interesting. really complex. i know it doesn't look like it and they really are, so one of the things that boys are really good -- boy aggressors are great at is when they have -- when they go to the principal's office be disciplined when they walk out they are usually -- good bulls

bullyings, are good at making sure everything that happened in the office is a joke, so what do you do with that? how do you discipline that? i was talking to people in illinois about it and military guy and sit foot six and scary and i need help and i don't want to do that as a principal. i'm not in the army anymore and so when they walk out of my office i know that they're doing this and i don't know what to do besides be really scary. that was amazing the principal came forward amongst the peers and said "i don't know what i am doing and in this situation i need help" and another principal said "when i am in the office who i am disciplining how you connect yourself when you walk out of my office very much deals with you ho i deal with this entire

problem". that's a great idea and i am sharing that with you. >> we have three more minutes left and i have one more person. briefly please. >> we have a lot of research in bullying prevention and social emotional learning programs and castle if we are looking at long-term prevention of this issue i would like that more part of the conversation as well and thank you for the work in bringing awareness. >> [inaudible] >> great. thank you. >> we have one more person that wants to say something before addressing the issue of suicide and mental health issues i believe. again we only have about three minutes. >>i will make it quick. my point is as a child of a mother that killed himself while at school when we toss out these statistics and goodness only 90% are mental health ill. let's

extrapolate the number and 10% died directly from peer abuse, something cause and effect, and if we recognize we currently have the highest suicide rate with the military, cause and effect. we don't dishonor their memories by saying they're mentally ill and making all these excuses. as a mother my child wasn't mentally ill but harassed to the point he broke and that is the part -- i read both your book. they're excellent. lee, as i said earlier after michael died i emailed you and the greatest grief imaginable trying to just -- i never heard of any of this, and you emailed me back, and i am here to tell you that children who are killing

themselves -- i know their parents. these kids are not mentally ill. they are breaking under ho rendous set of circumstances and yes we can discuss resiliency and all these other things, but we have to have room in the conversation for our very sensitive kids as well. >> thank you so much. [applause] >> all right. one final thought from each of you and we have to wrap it up and i want to talk about your project and with the schools. >> i want us to think about -- as the day we have been challenging ourselves what we can do to make a contribution, one of the things to think about is the way in which i'm trying to address the problem of sensitivity and there are some kids of different thresholds and definitions and everyone has the

right to their emotional truth and we need kids to learn more social skills and resiliency and all of these things that i am doing and never would have done it and hit me in the last year or two. i was going to do a chapter -- i am and kids on the spectrum of autism andace perers and targeted or initiated into perpetrating, which i dealt with last week, are perpetrators and aggressors, so i wanted to work on that so i'm working with kids and with aspergers and autism and one thing that struck me is we need to be able on the flip side, so i'm now writing to kids when you are the one that has more of a thick skin, whatever

you want to call it, how do you interact with kids who are more sensitive? just how do you do that? how do you recognize the signs when you're around somebody that does calibrate and has a different definition and what bothers them and what doesn't and if we can do that and i'm asking autistic kids and asperger's kids and normal kids and what are the things that trigger these things and what can we do and i want you to know what i am doing right now and i am working with boys and i finished the porn section and honest i'm doing all of it and why do girls send naked