we will be passing around a microphone, so if you have questions, please raise your hand and speak into the microphone. >> i have a key question about the backup plan. you mentioned the super bowl earlier. what is the backup plan in the unlikely catastrophic event of the disabling of the system? solar storm or whatever. >> there are lots of things that can go wrong. the rights can hit the planet, and the things go dark, and then we fix it. in general, the technology you are talking about is something which is broadly called cloud bursting, where essentially, is used by google and other folks, there's not one computer called google.com. there's a basilian sitting behind a thing. there is a concept called load balancing, and it has been augmented of late with the ability to dynamically spinoff new instances of server applications in response to spikes in demand.

the general concept called cloud bursting allows you to do that across multiple cloud vendors, so you could do it across amazon and various other people say you could get geographic diversity and so on. people doing this extremely well, for example, would be netflix. many of you in this room i'm sure use the netflix. what they did is dynamically throw what is this is as more and more people click on movies that they want to watch. so then what they are doing is as the need scales, they then have the ability -- they pay them, and, of course, it drops off as soon as the need drops off as well. so they end up essentially paying for average demand. the technology is widely deployed around the world. >> as kind of a follow-up, individuals often use cloud services for backing up their computers. are we about to see people using their computers to back up their clout services to guarantee that

they hold on to their data? >> you are at the tip of a very interesting iceberg. go 100,000 miles in space and look down at the earth. we are still driving more wavelength down. there is no problem distributing content out to users. what we have a fundamental problem with is distribution of power. power is dominating in terms of distribution networks q one of the reasons why it does not make sense is because you are at the end of the tree, a long way from distribution, a lot of transmission loss. the data centers move to where power gets generated. what is the next hardest thing to move? big data. did it is still really hard to move, even though we have lots of wavelets. that says that the application moves to the data is. if you think about facebook and google and all those folks, they build data center's right were the power is generated.

typically near hydro plants and so on. what you find is that more and more applications will move to where the data is. moving those big chunks of data is very difficult. in terms of enterprises in the cloud, there is certainly no reason to suspect that the systems used by cloud vendors like amazon are not capable of geographic replication and redundancy. it is absolutely the case that someone like netflix, for example, could survive an outage of two simultaneous amazon did a centers through geographic redundancy and so on. this stuff exists, and the technology exists within the cloud providers to make sure that once your data gets there, it is not going away. it is just not a cloud provider solution. most enterprises will have things called disaster recovery, where they will keep all their critical data completely

synchronized so that if one coast gets hit by an earthquake or terrorist attack, you have the other coast where you can get your data. it is completely synchronized, always available, on demand. geographically diverse disaster recovery solutions have been in place for some time, and they actually do allow for secure data storage. >> i think that for the individual consumer and home user, this storage in the cloud and backing up your personal computer in the cloud has been burgeoning of late because people want to have the ability to store their files securely, but the reason why, to answer your question, is why do they continue to still backed up their clout back of solution onto a usb stick or on to their own pc is people still have to get comfortable with the idea of

clout security, that the data truly is secure and they're comfortable with letting go. people still not quite comfortable with that concept yet. as people become more and more confident and more and more comfortable with the concept of data being safe, we will still have people, and we will still have instances where people want their data next to them, where they feel comfortable, where they feel safe and confident that their data is secure. >> if i were purchasing services from a cloud vendor, i would mandate that all data at risk is encrypted using keys that i own, that i provide when it is processed for me, and there is no excuse for anybody not doing this. the technology exists. so it comes down to the probability that a bad guy could go and guess relocation. in amazon web services, you have more than 3.5 billion objects. they have to know which one to go for it here that have to break your access. then they have to break the

description on the of jets. the probability of stealing your data and getting away with an attack is vanishingly small. >> i think you address one of my concerns, which was the security of my data out on the cloud, but you raised a new question -- who owns my data? what if i do want it to go away? >> there are very challenging concerns. certainly, governed by state boundaries. for example, numerous canadians do not want their data in american dissenters. under a land the vessels, that can be subject to inspection and seizure. all the regulations relate to national boundaries there as well. a cloud providers actually end up having to meet numerous diverse regulatory requirements related to where data may resign and how it may be encrypted. there are different purchase centers for different christian center's and countries -- there

are different encryption centers for different regions and countries. i think amazon wishes they could make it go away the same way they imagine the sales tax would go away sunday. [laughter] >> but is it clear that i own my data? >> it is clear that you own your data, but it is not clear that somebody with the opprobrious search and seizure warrants cannot just make off with it, too. and, of course, you know, here is the scary one. the fbi says there is an attack coming out of those few racks over there, and they walked out with several companies entire computer set up just because some guy in one of those was doing a bad thing. that is scary. >> unfortunately, we have time for only one last question. weber has the microphone, please. then maybe it is a mistake, but

i have the microphone. i came to this lecture trying to find a definition of what cloud computing is. maybe i understand a little better, but i still do not have its in the simple terminology that i understand. my other question is from my point of view as a user of computing services, i have recently had the experience with a couple of banks going through a total change of their website, which caused me no end of aggravation to try to continue my accessing of my data, and i had the feeling, and i think you kind of touched on this, that for maybe financial reasons or because you technology people are so influential in the world you convinced these banks they had to do this, it just really

made my life miserable for a couple of weeks trying to figure out how to use their new system. i mean, it seems to me that -- you know, i had the impression that technology people are sort of making work for themselves by influencing institutions that they need to change what they have already in place. i still go by the old model -- if it is not broken, do not fix it. so i am opposing these questions to the senate panel. >> those are great observations. i am in my mid-40's by now, and there are programming languages used regularly that just did not exist five years ago. when you hear these guys talk, it is like gobbledygook to me. you get old with your music. you get old with your skills sets. it is just the way it is.

because we are a technology- driven society, and we have completely inverted the traditional way back societies were built when -- where when you were older, what you learned was survival skill, and you were right. that is the problem. the young guys are right, and the old guys take it in the net. cloud computing -- let me try a simple one for you. used to be in the old days that everybody had their own electricity generating plant. people would generate electricity locally for their own production means for their own factory. that got turned into a utility. the economics and study of that is very interesting. there's a fabulous book called "the big switch" which basically tracks that history. think of what clout is doing to computing is being analogous. instead of having to own and run your own software and hardware

and computer systems, these things simply become services that you acquired by some horribly complicated plug. so it becomes viable economically -- the economics are compelling. you can consume by plugging in. you have to plug, yes, it is still the case that you know too much, but it is really that, that turning computation into a utility that can be consumed as opposed to requiring human to surround previous manifestations of the technology. >> i thank the panel for coming here today. we also thank our audience here for those listening and viewing. now, this meeting of the commonwealth club of california commemorating its 108th year of

discussion is adjourned. [applause] >> good afternoon and welcome to today's meeting of the commonwealth club of california, the place where you are in the know. i am currently a director of the california clean energy fund, also a long serving member of

the commonwealth club. please turn off all your noise- making devices. we will get under way in just a moment, but first, i want to tell you a bit about a couple of upcoming programs. next monday, november 21, tom brokaw, nbc news correspondent and author, will discuss the current mood of america. this will be a program starting at 1:00 p.m. at the santa clara convention center. on tuesday, november 29, paula kerger, who is president of pbs, and the president of kqed will discuss the challenges facing public broadcasting and how the challenges impact our program

choices. this will be a 6:00 p.m. program here in san francisco at the commonwealth club. it is my pleasure to extend a special welcome to any new members of the commonwealth club who are here today. we know you are going to enjoy your membership and look forward to seeing you often. if you are not a member yet, today is a great time to join. if you have questions, the staff will be available to answer them after the program. there are question cards at your table for director muller, and these will, of course, the collected during the program. the commonwealth club, as you

know, is a nonpartisan organization. we do ask that our speakers be allowed to make their remarks without interruption. we encourage the writing of your questions and submitting them to us. i also want to say that we are very pleased to have with us to moderate the program for the question period, mariono florentino professor at stanford university law school and co- director at stanford center for international security and cooperation. from early 2009 through the summer of 2010, he served as special assistant to the president for justice and regulatory policy at the white house.

now, we are going to pause just for a moment while we begin -- before beginning our radio, tv, and internet programs for a much wider audience. good afternoon and welcome to today's meeting of the commonwealth club of california, the place where you are in the know. you can find us on the internet at commonwealthclub that board -- commonwealthclub.org. now it is my distinct honor and also a personal pleasure for me

to introduce robert s. muller, the sixth director of the federal bureau of investigation. nominated by president george w. bush, he was sworn in to lead the fbi on september 4, 2001, just one week before the al qaeda attacks on 9/11. under his leadership, the fbi has since played the leading role in preventing further terrorist attacks inside america. all americans should be happy that congress recently approved an extension of his tenure -- his 10-year term for an additional two years. i have known bob since 1970, which was his first year as a law student at university of virginia where i was on the law

school faculty. he was a returning veteran from the vietnam war, having led a rifle platoon in the third marine division, receiving a bronze star, purple heart, and vietnamese cross of gallantry. i was always on the lookout for incoming students who played squash. bob more than filled that bill. he improve my game, although i never, never beat the man. i did, however, get to know him very well. he was a prince. bob also was smart, smart enough for me to offer him a job as my research assistant and dumb enough to accept. he was a delight to work with,

and together, we produced an article -- the energy environment conflict: fighting electric power facilities -- which was published in 1972. when bob graduated from uva he left a real hole in my life, but i knew for sure he was going to accomplish great things. we kept in touch as his career progressed until fbi swallowed him in 2001. bob's legal career has been mainly in public service with interruptions for private practice. all of his focus on criminal law, financial fraud, public corruption, narcotics, conspiracies, money laundering, terrorists. he first became known in san francisco where he served in the

u.s. attorney's office, rising to be chief of the criminal division. thereafter, he moved to boston as assistant u.s. attorney and then to the u.s. justice department in washington where he led the criminal division. in 1998, bob returned to san francisco as united states attorney. please join me in welcoming my good friend and one of america's most distinguished public servants, robert muller. [applause] >> let me start off by thanking mason for that kind introduction. i will say -- you often wonder when a former professor is going

you do not know what is going to come out. but, thank you. you were there to kick start my career when it needed kick starting. let me thank the commonwealth club for having me back. it is great to be back in san francisco but also to be back with you this afternoon. two months ago, we marked the 10th anniversary of the september 11 attacks. the horrific events of that day were the prelude to a decade of political, economic, and cultural transformation, and globalization and technology have accelerated these changes. consider now how different our world was in the summer of 2001. leaders of egypt, iraq, and libya were entrenched in power. barack obama was an illinois state senator, and arnold schwarzenegger was a movie actor.

10 years ago, most americans had never heard of a credit default swap or mortgage-backed securities. lehman brothers had celebrated its 150th anniversary and in 2001, mark zuckerberg was captain of his high-school fencing team. borders bookstores had $3 billion in annual revenue and meanwhile, kindle something you did to a fire and nook was merely a small corner of the room. most americans knew little about osama bin laden or al qaeda. at the time, i was u.s. attorney in san francisco and i myself being out here paid little attention to those terrorist attacks that were occurring overseas. today, our world can change in the blink of an eye. the effects of that change are felt more rapidly and more broadly than ever before.

consider the current economic climate. when companies fail to recognize and adapt to change, they can go out of business almost overnight. law enforcement and the intelligence community face a similar challenge. if we in the fbi failed to recognize how the world is changing, the consequences can be devastating. lives can be lost. our national security can be threatened, and the balance of power can tip toward our adversaries. terrorism, espionage, and cyber attacks are now the fbi's top priorities. terrorists, spies, and hackers are always thinking of new ways to harm us. today, i want to discuss how these threats are evolving and what to share with you what the fbi is doing to stay one step ahead to keep our nation safe, prosperous, and free. let's begin with the terrorist threat. during the past decade, we have

weakened al qaeda, due to the coordinated efforts of our military, the intelligence community, law enforcement, and our international partners. we have captured or killed many al qaeda leaders and operatives, including osama bin laden. we have shut down terrorist training camps, frozen their finances, disrupted their communications and, most importantly, we have uncovered dozens of cells and prevented terrorist attacks. yet, core al qaeda, operating out of pakistan, remains committed to high-profile attacks against the west. we confirmed this with records seized from osama bin laden's compaq after his death. we saw this with the plot to bomb the new york subway system in 2009. meanwhile, al qaeda affiliate's have emerged as significant threats. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula operating in yemen has

attended several attacks on the united states, including the failed christmas day airline bombing in 2009 and the attempted bombing of u.s.-bound cargo planes in october 2010. most recently, we have a growing concern about the threat from homegrown violent extremists. these individuals have no typical profile. their experiences and motives are often distinct, but they are increasingly savvy and willing to act alone, which makes them difficult to find and stop. in 2009, smadi was a 19-year-old jordanian citizen living in texas, and although he espoused loyal to -- loyalty to al qaeda and some of the modern, he was not affiliated with any groups that would become terrorists. he had become radicalized on his

own on the internet. when he expressed clear interest in attacking a dallas skyscraper, the fbi used undercover agents to set up a sting, and three agents who spoke arabic began talking with him, first online and later in prison. he believed he had found an al qaeda sleeper sell to assist him. after months of planning, he parked what he believed was a truck bomb underneath a skyscraper and dialed a cell phone number he sought would detonate the bomb. the bomb was a fake supplied by our undercover agents, and the call signaled the agents to make the arrest. last year, he was convicted and sentenced to 24 years in prison. intelligence led us to him and the combined efforts of our federal, state, and local partners help us stop him before he could do any harm. in the face of this threat, we and the bureau will continue to

enhance our intelligence capabilities to get the right information to the right people at the right time, and we will continue to build strong partnerships, for these tools have been the foundation for our success against terrorism over the past 10 years. we must keep adapting to these changing terrorist threats to stay one step ahead of those who would do was harm, and we must do all of this while respecting the role of law and the safeguards guaranteed by the constitution -- stay one step ahead of those who would do us harm. let us turn from terrorists to spies. many people assume the end of the cold war made the world of cloak and dagger obsolete, but unfortunately, a spinoff is still very much with us. nations will always try to learn one another's secrets to gain political, military, or economic advantage.

the bar of intelligence presence operating in the united states is roughly the same as it was during the cold war. we still confront traditional espionage, such as spies working under diplomatic cover, or even posing as ordinary citizens. consider the arrest last year of 10 agents of the russian foreign intelligence service. many of you may have seen tv news stories and videos covering the techniques we use in our investigation. it did feature the stuff from a john le carre novel. apart from the more traditional types of espionage, today's spies are just as often students, researchers, business people, or operators of front companies. they seek not only state secrets, but trade secrets from corporations and universities, such as research and development, intellectual

property, and insider information. consider the recent case of a naturalized u.s. citizen from india. for 18 years, he was an engineer at no. 0 grumman, the defense contractor that built the stealth bomber, one of our nation's most important strategic assets -- an engineer at no. full grumman -- nor folk -- norfolk grumman. he sold highly classified information about the stealth technology to several nations, including china, and also made six covert trips to china to assist them in development of stealth technology for their cruise missiles. partnerships again were essential in finding and stopping him before he could further damage national security. together with the air force, u.s. customs, irs, and other agencies will build a strong case against him, and this past

january, he was sentenced to 32 years in prison. foreign spies know that military superiority is merely one factor that determines the world's balance of power. just as important is the kind of economic innovation we find here in the bay area. so it is no surprise that spies also target the most valuable secrets of american companies. as well as universities. they hope that stealing the fruits of american innovation will give their nation's a shortcut to economic pre- eminence. an example of the cost of this type of espionage -- a former scientist for two of america's largest agricultural companies pled guilty to charges that he sent trade secrets to his native china. china. he became a research