or five days a week. >> got it. >> are there occasion when is the children are there and not the parent? >> absolutely not. a r as -- we operate licensed facilities. i'm the manager of all of them. the licensing regulations when you leave your children are very stringent. they're very cumbersome. i work with licensing quite intimately at our five programs. there's square footage requirements and exclusive use of yard space requirements and exclusive bathroom requirements. so these are courses where parents coming with -- come with their children. we would not be able to outfit the clubhouse. we're a licensed childcare facility. >> there's not a circumstance with a babysitter would come there and be there? >> that would be allowed. >> who is getting benefit of that? >> the adult.

it is a parent education component where -- the primary curriculum, the curriculum delivered is to the adult. in your own words on child development principles and what children are doi6 c1 in your own words on child development principles and what children are doing at different ages, it is not the child, so i think there's a distinction. >> okay. thank you. my last observation then is -- and i think it may be yet another elephant in the room is that -- if julius kahne were available and the neighborhood could be worked out with the outreach program and it suited the needs that -- because you're not necessarily site specific and laurel heights is not too far from that location, that you may keep your -- a good portion of the constituents, if that were the effort to keep your service available under the circumstances that you find yourself with, which is financially constrained. >> well -- in theory yes.

three years ago i did attempt to try to meet with personnel at park and rec. that was around two distinct issues. one is -- it was terry schwartz specifically. one was to develop a plan whereby which we could come up with a shared use plan for the city of san francisco. where we could maximize our programming which is free and serve our mission and also -- allow for park and rec to maximize the use of their space. i have to say, i didn't get very far in the manning. there was so much upheaval from the -- from primarily park and rec, i'm still here, it was difficult to go long-range planning. our program was chiseled away and we had to relocate. we relocated some of our -- our programs to community nonprofits as well as pulled back and relocated to our campus locations. however, i think as a -- as a

fran resident and parent -- i think park sites are very appropriate sites for parenting and -- especially parenting programs where you bring children. i have to say in any other circumstance, r, i would be, this is not a side issue, i would be advocating for more childcare in san francisco and as i said, many of the staff of this program are my students. so i am -- i'm feeling somewhat torn -- >> i understand. >> but -- i am absolutely, have always been willing to develop a citywide comprehensive plan for children's services. i want to mention, i worked with ronnie in the past very successfully. i fund raised for $24,000 to pay for the 12 unit that is the park and rec staff participated in child development. we did not have the money in our budget to do that. i felt that it was important to have in good faith, child development course work at st.

mary's recreation center and -- i -- there was a -- a positive experience and i wanted to continue to do that kind of shared programming. so -- >> let me ask you one more question then. that is -- from a timing standpoint for your program, as i saw a long e-mail trace over almost a year and a half on this issue with city college, i got the impression you needed to know last june that the he's wasn't going to be extended so that you could -- you could move out and -- so, am i assuming correctly that we have long passed the date that you could find -- that you would -- you would terminate the services or when -- when do you take up again with classes? city college is a large place. >> i went there. >> okay. >> there have been people involved in e-mail trails. i save mine. i have dates when people communicated with me. >> that's not so much my question. moi question is lead time.

when is the drop dead date for you in next year's program? >> well i would say, we're at a window of -- of possibility here. right now, to resurrect laurel hill. that's why i came today because -- our -- our -- our programming starts august 19th. we do need to operate course that is are -- full semester long in order to pay for them. the semester starts august 19th. >> those advocating to extend this wouldn't serve your purpose because you need to know now. >> well -- i can move quickly. >> okay. thank you. >> mr. ginsburg. >> can i answer another question. >> sure. >> what is published in our catalog, our class schedule to allow for a public notification,

our courses are planned six months out. >> right. that would sound reasonable. thank you. mr. ginsburg. >> commissioners, i want to reiterate our overall commitment. i have had a number of questions with the trustees and with the vice chance lore about the issues. and this has been a lengthy conversation that has gone on between the department about this particular site. there's reasons that city college had reduction in facilities. some are our own desire to provide services in our facilities at a time when we could actually staff them. many of our programs -- we do have programs, we have nonfee based programs. all of our recreation is seffly -- heavily subsidized. it is important that this is not a tradeoff between there one -- this free parent and childcare

nanny program -- you know, fee based programming. our mission is to try to actually provide recreation for all of our kids regardless of ability to pay as you know. >> we will continue to work with city college on some site identification actually. speaking of good community relationships and organizational relationships, i was handed a note by -- by raymond from -- from richmond park saying this actually -- the elementary school may actually have space. it may be an opposite for a program like this which is breat close to the laurel campus. we'll help facilitate and participate in that conversation to see if we can't make something happen. i thought you were going to say something. >> i'm going to turn this to a vote. i know if you start, everybody want it is add something. it is not fair to the process. we -- we have seen a lot. there'll be more to complaint. i think there are a couple

ofishes i want to point out. it is made clear to us at least from the supervisor alioto that she doesn't want to see talioto she doesn't want to see the cal hallow facility go dark. the second issue is we have been negotiating if good faith after a long effort with the -- with the l.i.a. and i think that -- that they are at a drop dead date where they go out of business if they don't have this facility. they have staff and they have services. i think there are some options for city college. i don't think it is going to be at laurel heights but i think julius kahne or the play ground that you just mentioned, phil, offers some great potential. we don't win in this situation. believe me. because -- we're going to make somebody happy and somebody upset here. and i guess that is just the nature of the base. -- business. the fact is we have to make the decision. i think based on those economic factors and the -- and the hard

reality. i'm going to say it again and keep saying it, every time we lose money in this process, we let guardeners go and we let rec directors go. we're under the gun and staff is working hard on this to find alternatives. i -- we may not be perfect in the process of outreach and notification and everything else but the -- the harsh reality is that when we save money, we serve the whole city. we don't serve just the neighborhood by putting guardeners and recreation center directors back to work. i think that we're under that gun. so be that as it may or people that want to call it privatization, which i find to be an offensive word. i would rather say it is revenue generating for site appropriate uses and recreation. it is a reality. we could all use words we like or don't like. these are the decisions. i tip my hand on the way it should go. i like to direct staff to work

fast, diligently with city college to find a solution to try and might not -- try to minimize the impact on their program to this particular part of town where this service has been going for 40 years. >> commissioners? >> i would move approval of staff's recommendation with the change in the lease terms. >> okay. so -- now, we learn robert's rules of order. >> sorry. >> is there a second to that? >> yes. >> you need to know the lease terms. >> commissioner, what would the terms? >> two-year lease with the 12-month notification to -- what? >> it is what i said earlier. two years with the 12-month notification option. >> i don't understand the 12-month notification option.

is that notification tottenant before they have to leave. it is effectly three years? >> yes. so the community could raise the money and they would have an entire year to do that and come to the department. we talked about -- >> commissioners, it is a policy decision for all you've about whether or not you would want -- obviously if after -- if there's another option in 1 months that -- that you think is preferable to the current tenant, you would provide 12-month notice to language and action. and then the lease would skire after two years. as we do with all of our leases, you may want to consider ans on it extend. >> another way of putting that is there's an initial lease for two years with a 12-month notice of termination. you would do year to year there after because you would have a 12-month notice of termination. >> the purpose was that the neighborhood was concerned that five years was simply too long.

this may also be to the school's benefit as well. it may not be a fit for them as well. >> we ask the city attorney to weigh in. >> and we have seen many vareyages on this theme from -- we could just help with phrasing because i can already see that, you know when time comes, there'll be confusion. so, you could -- you could have a term, let's say for example two years. and there would be an option to renew for two years. but -- that's exercised upon -- upon a one-year notice. so that it is very clear that -- if it is going to roll into the omings option there's a notice provision that it takes a year to do that. i use an example of the zoo lease that is for set term. if either side wants to end the lease, it requires a six-month notice to the other side. so that there's a decision that is made, six months prior to when the lease would end.

>> thank you. >> so the amendment would be a -- a two-year lease, with a two-year option with a 1-month notification to exercise that option. >> exactly. after two years, we decide, they decide, it is decided over the -- ev this one year, or we have one year. >> i think -- >> that's a three-year term. >> that's still not right. >> if it is a two-year lease, and they an option for two years, and you have to give them 12 months notification if you're going to exercise that option, it is really at end of the first year you have to make that decision. >> yes. at the end of the first year. >> the reason for 12 months we felt was reasonable for a school. >> for those of us that hope the economy turns around and the budget gets better in that period of time, i got hand in florida. i think it is a tough proposition, but i think it is

the responsible thing to do to put the two years. >> i was thinking they should have at least two years. -- i don't think it is reasonable. initial two years. before -- to think they will know after a year. to think anybody will know in a year is not. >> so herb oher motion would be a two-year lease. >> right. with -- with a two-year option and notification -- then you still have a 12-month notification on the two-year option. you're not terminating after two years. you're not terminating after one year you may terminate after two years. you got to give tchem 12 months notice. the maximum there would be three years. >> four years. >> no. >> minimum. >> two and two. two and two, but 12-month notice -- >> 12-month notice after the first year. >> yes. >> after the first year.

>> you give 12-month notice after two years, then three years. either second or first. >> you got to give a 12-month notice. that's all you could say. is there a -- is that your motion? >> two years. >> two years with a two-year option but you need a 12-month notice to exercise the option. >> you could exercise after the second year. >> well, in theory -- in theory, the second year wouldn't be -- you would be exercising it in the second year, but you get notification 12 months into the he's in the first year. >> makes any sense. >> you could have an initial -- initial two-year lease. >> kii make a suggestion? >> please. >> ask the attorney, is there a

simpler way to do this? we want to give the school two years and one year if we ask them to move to -- to give them a year to find a place. >> then i can draft it that way. the term of the he's is two years, that with -- with option to exercise and -- an extension, the decision will be made at the end of the two-year period. is that -- >> commissioners -- >> the problem with that, if i i may. the problem with that they need to know 12 months out, you would be giving them an automatic third year. >> in which case it would be a three-year lease with a 12-month notification period. >> that's correct. that's the answer to that. a three-year lease with a 12-month note foiks. >> can i give this a shot?

>> if it improves on this conversation, you may say something. doesn't, you may not. >> i think it might. what you want, and i think you picked up on it. i think you picked up on it, commissioner buell is an extension. two-year lease, 12-month notification prior to termination, if we want them out after 12 years, we have to let them know 12 months in advance, two-year lease, with a 12-month notice and it extends year by year thereafter. if we decide not to ask them to leave, if you decide to ask them to leave you give them 12-month notification. you could have two one-year extensions or three or whatever. >> does the motion maker understand it? >> actually -- what i was trying to get at. crea, i think that works. >> we call did a two plus, one, plus one. that way. >> i like that.

>> two plus one, plus one. >> yes. >> two plus one, plus one. with a 12-month notification. >> maybe on a one to one. they would be on a one to one forever. that's unfair. >> two to five-year lease depending on the situation. >> there's a cap at five? >> correct. >> we have that motion. that's an amendment. i think the city attorney will clarify that for us. right. she's going to take the advice of staff on a two-year, one year, one year maximum five years lease. >> what i understand this to be the lease term will be two years. with the option to extend up to five years, and that the exercise of the option to extend requires -- it requires a year notice. >> no.

to terminate requires a one-year notice. well, it is equal. it is either side. i appreciate if the audience didn't try to negotiate this lease at the same time. it is not helpful. the way it usually works is tha1 the way it usually works is that the -- the tenant notifies the department that they wish to extend. then it is up to the department to make a decision. >> right. >> and on the same grounds they would notify if they wanted to terminate. >> exactly. they would have to give 12-month notice. >> we don't need the notification. we could exercise our option not to renew. and then after another year. >> if they needed 12-month notice. >> and two-year. >> and that's the point. >> yeah. right. >> so the point is, that -- that it is a -- a lease for two years, with -- >> vearm, i don't think the community can -- the public can hear you. >> one of them is working. now, try this again. so, that -- this is a two-year

-- that this -- it is a two-year lease, with the option to extend for a maximum of five years, on thereafter on a yearly basis and that the exercise of the option has to be -- because the at any timeant -- at any timeant would say they want to stay and the notice has to happen a year prior. >> right, 12 months prior. >> basically after the first year, a decision will need to be made. >> right. or that's when you could start exercising that option to make the decision. >> to make the decision. >> just a point -- yes. just -- so i'm sure that i understand this if the department wanted to terminate this lease after two years, under the structure, would the department be able to do that? >> that would happen at the end of the second year. >> after the first year. >> right. >> actually, i think you -- to

clarify what we would do if they approached us and said we would like to exercise the extension, this would happen after the first year of that term -- if we decided that we did not want to do that, we would say no and at that point they could stay one more year. >> yes. >> then they're out. >> right. >> that's the way i understand it. >> okay. that's the motion. that's an amendment. >> this is voting on the amendment? first. i think that by protocol i can say is there any objection? to the amendment. hearing none. the -- the amendment is made. now, on the full resolution then as amended, item 10 is before you. is there a motion to approve item 10 as amended? >> it has been moved. seconded. all of those in favor? >> aye. >> all those opposed. hearing none it is unanimous. thank you so much and thank you

for bearing with us. [applause] >> eight, i'm going to recommend a 10-minute recess for the commission and we will return to take up item eight.