some concerns. students miss far more class time and most sports cannot be pushed back. that is because we have booked our rental facilities at least a year ahead. practices in many sports cannot be pushed back due to the schools and the teams that compete for limited space. and also, it could increase the rental expenses. it could also increase the athletic transportation budget by about $45,000 to account for the likelihood of schools using more of the buses for allocating more rides for students. also, we could incur up to

$47,000 in security costs. if the basketball star * get pushed into the evening at a nighttime hours, the late start could lead to a very stringent demands for more security. we don't want to have football game night games. the safety concerns were later games and practice times would increase the safety be pushing more students in the late evening and night time travel hours. and also, game time could also lead to an increase in parents driving students creating potential risk management problems. these are all speculations at this point. >> can we do the highlights, and we will read it everything ourselves? we're definitely listening and we have lots of questions.

>> for student nutrition services, not a big issue. there is a potential for the breakfast program. there is also may be a problem for the cafeteria workers going to a second job in the afternoon. custodial services, very minimal. there may be a little bit of overtime after 5:00. we talked with muni people, and students might be competing with morning commuters. there is such a force that they will not be able to incree. they also have some safety concerns. they wanted to know whether or not it would be fine for high school students into medical's -- middle school students to be mixed together. let's look at the

considerations for realigning the high school start time of 9:00. bus requirements in general next year will not be providing any buses anyways. for special ed, we provide trips in the morning and in the afternoon. 59 trips in the morning and 59 trips in the afternoon for high- school only. at 9:00 time, there transporting students to elementary and middle schools as well as three k and infant programs. we changed the start time to 9:00, at the entire fleet in operation at 9:00 meeting 59 trips, we would need at a bus to

the fleet for every trip. this is provided by the transportation department. changing the high school time to 10:00 or later will still require 59 trips, but adding two hours of operational time. for 59 buses, the cost very roughly is about $1 million. we have another option that we thought about, changing the start time district ride -- district wid.e -- wide. it is almost a break-even with high schools, but we would still have to change elementary schools start times. we also looked at the pros and

cons of a late start on high- school. it would mean more time in the morning, more sleep. let's look at some of the negatives. a shorter after-school program will impact the sports program, going home late. this is a very important thing. it is a complex issue. we to look at it in depth. the committee has these recommendations. we need to review the start time at every grade level and evaluate it. we need to designate 2011 as the planning here for changing schools start times. we need to make decisions by november 2010, before the enrollment fair for the parents. we need a task force for across

the district. we need to encourage our school community in the process, engage our school community. and staff at all levels. those are the recommendations. i would like to hear from board members. commissioner kim: before we move to discussion, i wanted to ask if we had comments that we wanted to make? hi. >> thank you. o rbled] stand by.

>> not only the truancy issues, but also what is going on in later hours. it is definitely safer having them at home, really 8:00 or

10:00 in the morning. excuse me? >> i appreciate the objectivity with which you say that we should look at this. generally speaking, from a public safety point of view, it seems like it is a good idea to have kids at school later. >> we're looking at it from our point of view. it is a point of view that you may want to consider. commissioner kim: board questions and comments. vice-president mendoza. commissioner mendoza: on the task force that you put together, is there reason why you did not have parents and teachers on that committee? >> we started this in may.

our meetings were set up in the morning, and that is why our recommendation is that we need to engage more of our parents and teachers. >> having lived in this and several different places, i think that, you know, what it really comes down to, that is why you need a good task force. a decision has to be made of who is going to be the group that starts earlier. no matter what you do, the issue always comes of who is going to be the morning shift, who will be the next shift? that is why you need to have a lot of participation with people. in every place i have had this discussion, that is what becomes

the biggest obstacle in trying to figure out which is the group? you want elementary kids out early, you know, in the winter, going to school early when it can still be dark? what group gets that shift? a lot of districts have chosen mainly the older kids because they are older and they feel they can be there in the morning. either you put the middle schools earlier, and there is research compelling to middle school aged kids in terms of how much sleep they should get, but the problem with that is that then they get out early. then what happens? it is a pretty complex issue, and when margaret shared this, i said that i think a good idea would be to move in this direction.

we ought to take some time to really engage in meaningful conversation because there is no simple way to do this. commissioner wynns: i have a lot of questions about this. even though we always, you know, we are always thinking to do this as soon as possible, we might need next year just to plan and discuss this. that might mean we don't do this for a couple of years. we need to tell people because of the school choice program. it also seems to me -- i appreciate the research is to say that we need high school kids not to have to be dragged out of bed at 7:00 or 6:30 when their bodies are still asleep until they are inside the school door. we need not to just look at high

school. for instance, let's make everything an hour later. we have some elementary schools that start at 9:20. is it 9:00? i love that. we were a sleep-late family. so, what i am saying is that it is another reason not to have as our goal, making this decision before november 2010. we are doing a redesign of special education, we are instituting a new assignment policy. with that goes cuts in transportation next year and anticipating major cuts, a realignment for the following year. it seems to me to bring up

again in metaphor we have used a lot. we need a laser, and not a meat ax approach. i want to make a little bit of a snide remark about estimate that we need another $5 million for special lead transportation considering the cost already? we could just buy a car for everybody. however, the redesign ought to give us more information about that. it seems to me we don't only want to talk about high school. in a new transportation era, if we want to say we're going to move the start times back to 9:00 or something reasonable, at whatever level we can get on what looks like a reasonable start time, we need to assess how many more kids are going to schools closer to home.

it also seems to me that the high schools that are starting early, 7:30, they don't have any buses. instead of moving the high schools to 9:00, why don't we move those 8:00? again, we need a more nuanced approach to this. some of the initial sort of things that seem to be revealed by some of the research review it may or may not be the most important pieces of research for us to take into consideration. i am interested in continuing to pursue this. hours are times are largely driven by transportation. that is not a good reason, that doesn't mean we don't consider

it, but it should not be the driver here. i hope we will continue to look at this, and we will take some of those things into consideration. and that we will seriously look for recommendations about how this might be aligned with other initiatives. and women need to make a decision based on start times in general, not just how quickly can we do it. commissioner norton: my first reaction to this is, i think it is definitely something of value to our high school students and something we need to continue to explore. i am receptive to it. maybe it is because i am not a morning person and i'm about to have someone in middle school. i hate the idea of school

starting at 7:40 in the morning. if we are saying that students that are from age 10-17 lead at 9.5 hours of sleep a night, we should also -- it seems like switching one problem to another. i like the idea of being nuanced about it. and even exploring the idea of having, as we do now with elementary school, having a range of start times so that some high schools start early and sons -- some schools start later. i don't think we have very reliable demand patterns right now in terms of choice to know how big a factor start time is, but hopefully with the new system, we will have better data about what people are choosing.

and so we can determine if start time is a factor, we might be able to start manipulating that. i would support continuing to explore this, but i feel that it is something that we need to proceed very carefully and very judiciously. i can't stress enough the needs that really engage family. when i tell people that we are looking at this, my e-mail box will fill up and about 30 seconds. it is a hot-button issue. commissioner kim: other comments or questions? commissioner fewer: it is pretty complicated now that i see everything, but it is doable if we get rid of transportation and sports. [laughter] it was a joke, people listening.

no, i did not live at my home address. [laughter] i think that's if we are looking at the start times at 7:30 against 8:30 instead of 9:00, we could have the committee look at that recommendation, not before 8:30. or maybe we don't make any kid party who has a 7:30 class? -- tardy who has a 7:30 class? it should not be the things that dictate this, but we should broaden the discussion. i don't know how the examiner put it on me as one of the 10 worst ideas of the week, start

time an hour later. i'm starting to think that maybe they are right. the response to that has been e- mail's of high-school parents thinking me for bringing this forward, saying that people do not realize how hard it is to get your child out of bed. my son also had a very difficult time. now that i see these studies that show some sort of biological clock and not just laziness, i will probably have to apologize. it kind of gets us. it is true, i think, what the captain says. my husband has been a police officer, and the swing shift is the most difficult shift because the activity all happens later in the afternoon when you come on the shift.

the day shift is the easiest shift. there are a lot of things to keep in mind. overall, we have a requirements now. everyone who does not graduate will not graduate from our schools. it makes that work much harder. we're demanding more critical thinking of our students. obviously, if you fall asleep, you will not pass. you know, we're going to have instructions for students to not fall asleep as much. i want to thank you for jump starting this committee and really seriously looking at this.

there are things about athletics, and i think that this also gives us an idea where we are beginning. and things that if we're serious about doing this, planning and tweaking said that it is the best compromise. commissioner maufas: i just have a quick question. looking at the separate sheet that talks about comparisons and tardies of 2009 and 2010. the calculations are a lump sum. from my experience, it includes being targeted first. -- tardy to first period, absent first and tardy second period.

i would really only be interested in tardy to first period. in my experience, it was the transportation issue. i almost, in my mind, separate that because there is some much time that elapses. i guess that is really what i am interested in better understanding. i appreciate that we have some data to start looking at comparisons of other places, what they have tried, or just hear what other folks are doing. the think that is really helpful. and both of these sheets that you have here, did you get information from some of the schools on the east side of

town? i know that you have committee members, but did you get any input? i mean that the committee level. i know they were to see to it on the committee, but i am hopeful they can still gain input to end in sight, maybe anecdotal evidence from those principles. they also have experiences, too. there are application issues as well, and other issues, you know. i like to think about how we can incorporate some of their influence. i really appreciate that. that is really all. >> i asked for volunteers.

but it was april and may, people were extremely busy. i appreciate that comment, we definitely want to include more principles from different parts of the city. >> you seem to have quite a bit of information. happ>> just some other thoughts. i believe it was one of the commissioners that asked about this because my daughter is now an incoming sophomore. i had no idea what it was like, especially if you go to school that is not anywhere near your home. in thinking about -- we did carpool. twice a week, i had to do this long hall after picking everybody up. i also saw kids at the bus stop

at the crack of dawn because it is an hour commute. they were getting up at 7:00 to get an 8:00 start, they're getting up at 6:00 to catch a 7:00 bus to get to school at 8:00. it was really challenging. i think it was really difficult for her to adjust to a 7:30 starts. she was one of the students that really didn't get a choice when her first class started. she was a freshman. if we started freshman and sophomore on the later side engineers and seniors on the earlier side, and give them that point of adjustment so that there is the younger you are, the more sweeping the, and you can ease into being at a junior or senior and coming in, you know, half an hour earlier or what ever.

can we look at that is a great level adjustment? starting juniors and seniors earlier, freshmen and sophomores later. i was a little curious about the contracts for staff. there was a piece that did not have much impact, but we would have to pay custodian's overtime, and their schedules couldn't match what ever we were doing at the school. could they not come in later, and we don't pay overtime? are we prefixed on staff? >> what they have later start times than the custodian's because they need to come in after school to clean up. in the contract, if the

custodians stay after 5:00, we have to pay them a premium fee. >> and the athletics peace i know is really challenging. he stuck to the 7:30 start time because he plays soccer after school and has no choice. you're trying to encourage a kid to do something after school. but to do that, he has to come early. i don't know if the athletic peace is just because this is not what we have done or if it is impossible to change it. i know it is tied to other schools. practice runs a little later, but gains were the only days where you got to leave earlier. because they don't want to change it, or is it really a problem?

the benefits will, you know, let them start a little later. >> it is not because they don't want to change it. they will not be able to change it next year because we rented the athletic fields, and we have to sign contracts a year ahead of time. and we compete with many schools in san francisco for those rental spaces, so for next year, we will not be able to change the start time. but if we want to explore this issue further, we can deafening -- it definitely look into later start times. basketball games are mostly in house. but football games and things like that, some schools don't have the ability to do a baseball game. we rent our public space. it is not that they don't want to. next year, it will likely not be

able to happen. >> my last comment is that your -- your november 2010 deadline is really rushed. for someone who is wanting to see this happen, i think he should continue to work on this and spend time with it. study it, do some other things to it. i can't imagine we would want to implement this for the following school year. that is my own feeling on it. >> we were thinking of the parents who sign up for the students in the assignment system. >> i