think frankly, when people come to a community meeting, they want to hear from the department about pressing issues. i'm asking as part of the chief's report that we get an update on questions, and it has taken 10 or so minutes at the end. >> president marshall: if i can get the lieutenant to put everything on the agenda agenda, if i can take a few minutes at the end of our meeting to prior ties and come -- to prioritize and come up with dates. >> i hope you also entertainment the fact that we look at the resources. we're being stretched more so every day. whether it is training, enforcement efforts. quite frankly, the quality of what you get is less than you

should. i'll be frank with you. often you get reports that i don't get to see, and i'm being surprised by what you see, but it is being driven by the pace. you deal with very complex and malicious issues. i think that in order for you to have the biologist benefit of all the information that you need to make good quality decisions, you also need to allow the department the time to -- the quality of reports that you deserve to have in order to make decisions. i think prioritizeng will be critical. quite frankly, at the pace that we're going the and the reduction in workforce that we're experiencing, we need -- that level of understanding from you. that's why commissioner -- the commissioner and i have

discussed this. we said we need to have the discussion here. and that's why i would like to give you a thorough understanding of what our training issues are. and we need to understand that. ultimate, you are going to make a decision, but you are going to make an informed decision. if you say we will train the police in this entire way -- training is necessary, by the way, but you need to have an understanding of the consequences of each of the steps. i think unfortunately we are doing a lot. i would start asking of you, that when you set up resources, that you have an understanding of what the mission is.

first of all, it is public safety. we are not of the time and place where we are have the luxury of willy-nilly dealing with peak interests in a particular area. i personally think when there is training, it needs to be done in the context of a formal mission. and the more you know, the better we as recipients of consumer safety, the better off we all are. but it is better to deliver the services to have cohesive policy direction, and you know, that we work as a team as opposed to having a bunch of individuals trying to figure out what the other person wants and leaving it up to what was the latest headlines or whether somebody puts out an article in the paper and we a all start reacting to that.

president marshall: when we think about what we want to put on your lists, you can certainly tell us. >> i think if there is a clear man depate from your commission, it is very important. if it is voted upon and everybody is in agreement, every time somebody starts to go outside of that, we can say, wait, let's go back. is it part of the mission? if it is not, is it something we really want? president marshall: second item. can we get the d.n.a. report? is that possible? >> i'll certainly get a little

more recorded. frankly, it would be helpful. if we have these questions, then we can surgically have the officers to you when we get at the last moment -- we get asked different stuff or we begin to cross-examine here, it really throws the whole process. it is something that got you, and it is a real search for information. so i would ask of you, that you know what you want. >> i actually tried to do it today, and i met with demander schmi depsm t -- schmidt. i never surprise them. >> and i'm not suggesting that you did. president marshall: it is a community meeting, so we don't want to go too far. i think we can get it in next week.

commissioner dejesus? commissioner dejesus: i hope the commission isn't up here being willie-nilly. we represent the department. we look at community oversight commission, and there are issue that is are relevant to the community that the department would not put forward. i hope you would take that into consideration. whether we do ask for a report, when we get information that is convoluted or stuff you haven't seen that comes before the commission, it is convoluted, it doesn't appear, it is not accurate, and then we have to ask questions, if we do have to interrupt, we don't want to do that, but we also want information that's straight-forward and sometimes it is not. maybe that's what you are talking about, you don't have theable to put it together in a manner that is not convoluted or straight-forward. i do take issue with some of the things that you said.

there will be items that are important to the community, and how the department impacts certain community that is not brought to our attention through the department but through community interest. i think we need to reserve the right to take those issues up as we see them because we are a community oversight group. we can set policies for this department. we get information from all different diverse communities. i think we need some flexibility. president marshall: yes, sir? >> commissioner, if i may, we were talking about september 1, and i think september 1 we already have the control special, and it is a disciplinary matter that was orderered back september 1. president marshall: the community was going to take a look at some things that were

written down and had been on the list for a while. they were making priority zigs about them. >> yes, sir. can do. i wanted to make those notes about september 3. we already have the agenda. it is a matter of items set for that agenda. on the subject of agendas, the city attorney pointed out, our item 6-b, we have never made it an action item. it has always been a discussion item, and that's what resulted in the origin of our priority list. i mean, we could rework the agenda to include an action item on such things so the decision is made right then and there. president marshall: i don't think we have any action items tonight? >> we do have some, but not under item 6. if you look at heam 6, none of what we've been discussing -- we

could rework the jepped. -- rework the agenda. commissioner hammer: it is rare the chief comes to us and acts us to act, and i don't know why we have to wait two weeks. i think it is a five-minute item that on the 25th we agendaize for action a vote on whether we call out a meeting with the entertainment commission. so the chief can ask us to do something, i think we should bring it up next week, and i think we can do it in five or 10 minutes. that's my suggestion. the item commissioner kingsley talked about and i talked about as well. president marshall: we get a list of all these things. commissioner hammer: just to clarify, the chief asked us to get behind and support becoming

part of the solution. one of the ideas was to have a joint meeting with the entertainment commission. i'm suggesting that we break a little with tradition and put it on the agenda next week. i think it will take five minutes to vote on it rather than waiting two weeks to talk about whether or not we're going to have a meeting. that's all i'm suggesting. commissioner kingsley: i would like to clarify what we're discussing. are you suggesting it be narrowly focused on just meeting with the entertainment committee or a more broader discussion on how to deal with the entire issue in kind of a systematic way? commissioner hammer: my understanding is it is a systematic approach, but we'll have to get a meeting, discuss it among of the ourselves. -- amongst ourselves.

i don't know why we would wait two weeks for that motion. commissioner kingsley: that makes sense. president marshall: -- >> if the board agrees to have a joint combhigs meeting, then we can have a broad-based discussion having the two commissions together. commissioner kingsley: very good. commissioner hammer: are you in support of that? president marshall: personally, i want the commission to look at everything, decide what it wants to do. i don't want to single one item out at this point and say let's do this or do that. i personally don't. i want to look at everything and say where do we want to go, and if takes an extra week. i understand what you are saying. i want -- i want to do this

right. that's my personal preference. but, you know, that's fine. commissioner hammer: it's not an action item, but i would like the people to weigh in. commission -- >> he agree with the president that we shouldn't react to every newspaper item. sometimes it becomes the issue of the day. but i do agree this is a pretty important issue, and sometimes you get a very important issue that deals with homicides, it deals with, you know, stretching our police force very thin because of some oversight issues between entertainment commission and police commission and quite frankly something that will cost our city a lot of money but more

importantly cost our city lives. vice president mazzucco: i agree we should move forward and i agree with commissioner hammer that should be on next week for a vote. i would like to vote now, but respectful of the rules we should have it on the agenda next week to see if this commission will have a joint hearing with the entertainment commission so we can book in both of issues. >> commissioner marshall and i are just a little confused by that. i think it is something i pushed like two or three meetings, it didn't go anywhere. there were talks. i said let's talk about having one of the board's supervisors put a fee on them for the extra services. i had gone out there, i had seen it. so i'm really -- next week to

vote with the entertainment commission. don't we need to reach out with the entertainment commission because they need to reach out with us? commissioner hammer: i will clarify. a very narrow issue to vote on whether or not we would pursue the idea of a joint meeting with the ebt entertainment commission. if we vote in ewe sort of p, some people will reach out to the entertainment commission. i don't want to wait two weeks to talk about whether or not we should reach out. it is a very limited thing. president marshall: anybody else? >> i agree. president marshall: anybody else? >> i agree. president marshall: all right. then we'll take public comment on item number 6. no one wants to comment on that.

>> good evening. my name is barbara gross and i'm a resident of san francisco and a proud backer of the san francisco police department, and i'm wondering when are they going to have their next police academy class? is it more important to have a lot of brass running around? i don't remember what the count was. i forgot. i'm busy trying to save my yard because i have somebody come -- coming over the fence stripping off the appear freeze, the plum trees, my first bunch of thompson seedless grapes. i was busy watering the yard thoroughly, and someone said a vine traveled. i didn't get in to check my paperwork before coming down here. i don't remember what the exact count is, but it seems to be overdone with the administrative staff here. when i worked here, i believe we had a supervisoring captain, a deputy chief, and i don't think

we need so many brass running around that we don't have money for more police recruits. you are saying you are having people sent from one section of the city to another, well, at least they are doing what they can with the staff they have. when are you going to get around to having more academy classes starting, instead of worrying about your various meetings. so and if this took place when there was a brawl in the street maybe they had not received proper notification as to how they were to have their security personnel positioned. inside, outh outside, all over the place. they could hire more people. it would be nice to have them speak and find out what they are supposed to be doing. i have my doubts on that. thank you. president marshall: no further public comment? >> commissioner, if i may, before we leave this item, i had an inquiry today from the human

rights commission about a potential joinlt joint meeting with the police commission. president marshall: put that on. >> i was contacted and they were ined in the joint meeting, and i explained to them that was a matter for the compligs to decide. president marshall: let's call item 7. commissioner dejesus: can we take a break? president marshall: you need a break? ok. a break. let's take a break. >> do you want to call the item and then break? president marshall: yes, call the item. >> move to item 7, public comment on all matters pertaining to the closed session. closed session is described under item 9, 9-a, b, c, d, and e.

9-a, is a pursuant to government code 94547-b 1, penal code, a public employee performance evaluation to review findings and return an officer on duty following an officer-involved shooting 10-006 case number. 9-b, prupet to the same government code sections also personnel exception. this is a discussion of possible actions to decide penalty for disciplinary acks. 208-167. 9-c, pursuant to the same government code, also personnel exceptions. this is the hearing of an appeal and possible action to sustain or not sustain. 9-d is pursuant to government code 549-69-a.

a discussion only. conference of legal council with respect to litigation. it is a matter of canseco. superior court case 507-227. 9-e, similarly also the same government code and section is also discussion only. conference of legal counsel pending litigation. and superior court 20614. president marshall: any public comment on the matter? counsel? >> i thought we had an agreement that if we're going to have trials on the third wednesday night, if we're going to have appeals on the third wednesday night with the full commission in order to clear up the dockets, that we would put them on first.

i like that term much better. but that we would put them on first. i remember i got up and i said if you're going to do this, start the meeting at 4:00 so we get the officers up front and special interest groups have to wait. we're here again tonight, it is 8:00. they have an appeal. hopefully it will settle. we were ready at 5:30 to put that appeal on. president marshall: i tried. >> i know you tried. president marshall: thank you very much. >> if you want to open up the rules again, we can open up the rules to make it formal. >> you should have come up with public comment and make a comment so you could remind us that you were supposed to go first. president marshall: any further comment? all right. the commission has asked for a break. you want five minutes? a five-minute break. >> commissioner, do you want to call item 8?

president marshall: we'll take a break. >> ok. [commission resumes at 8:14] >> we are reconvening after a break at 8:15 p.m. i will note for the record the presence of all members of the commission. mr. president, we are moving down to item 8, which is a vote on whether to hold a closed session. president marshall: i need a motion. >> i move that with the condition that we're going to move back to open session and ask the chief about an issue on the chief's report. plash mash -- president marshall: that's correct. >> i second that then. >> we're in open session right now. president marshall: i know. i'm sorry. go ahead.

>> i would suggest that whatever we are going to do, we take care of it quickly now because time is short and i am not going to be here for the rest of the closed session, and if it is something that pertains to something i have worked on, i would appreciate doing it quickly now. president marshall: we have a motion. we have a second to move into closed session? without objection so ordered. commissioner dejesus: i think if she's saying there is an open matter -- >> we should do it at this point in time. president marshall: that's the problem, if we do that, we'll never get to this. we may not get to these others. >> ok. fine. president marshall: moving to closed session. >> the moving party was

commissioner pan and the second was commissioner dejesus. police commission will move into closed session at 8 >> before we continue, is there something special about reopening an earlier -- >> no. >> we can move to item ten, which is a vote to elect -- whether to disclose any or all of the discussion held in closed session. >> move for nondisclosure. >> all right. if this is still working. item number 11, please. >> lastly, item 11.

we need a motion. >> moved. >> seconded? >> at the hour of 11:00 p.m., the commission adjourns.