meant that we could not have paid -- that the contract would have been over, we couldn't pay them for any work that they do and you would not get any -- any more deliverables. if we do this on a month-to-month basis it takes a significant amount of staff work to draft the documents, get it through, you know, the contract administration, get signatures on it. there is -- yeah. there's a burden, administrative burden. i just wanted to make that clear. chairman murphy: i understand. supervisor mar: i like to propose my original notion extend it to december. commissioner lee: my concern was if we do extend it all the way to december, what happens if we're not finished in december? it's going to get extended again.

even prior to december, just finish it as quickly as possible. that's my only thought of not extending it to december. try to get this done earlier. chairman murphy: any comment from the vendor on this? >> laurence with the department of building inspection. i believe december 31 is a reasonable date. we've done, as you heard through previous -- we believe we can complete it. we believe we have enough scheduled meetings and so on. i hope we don't need any further extensions beyond that it just seems like our reasonable completion date. we're focused on that. commissioner lee: well -- >> i can't hear you, sir. >> speak into the mike.

commissioner lee: i'm sorry. i'm not sure what the other commissioners are tint on except maybe commissioner mar. i'm willing to extend it to the next meet and then bring it up with everybody else again. i don't know why it's taking that long. i'm ok with until november. chairman murphy: are you seconding my motion? commissioner lee: sure. why not? chairman murphy: do i have a second for commissioner mar's motion? >> just a moment. i'm conferring. the motion that was made now is the continuing to extend the contract until november 17 meeting. i believe commissioner hechanova seconded that. commissioner hechanova: i beg

your pardon? >> on president murphy's motion to -- commissioner hechanova: extend the contract to the 17th. yes. i seconded. >> yes. so we had a motion and a second. and then we have another motion. so we need to vote on the first motion. so we need to vote on the first motion as to extend the contract to the november 17. chairman murphy: is that the date for our november meeting, 17th? >> november 17 >> chairman murphy: yeah. that's my motion. >> so we need to vote on that motion. chairman murphy: yes. >> so, president murphy? chairman murphy: yes. [roll call] >> once again this motion carries on a vote of 4-1 that means that the contract for capps is extended until november 17 and will be discussed again at that time.

chairman murphy: ok. next item. any public comments on this? i see none. >> ok. we are now on item number 6, update on how d.b.i. determines permit fees charged for planning services. >> good morning, commissioners. the planning department has a fee schedule for permits. and the actual planning department determines -- it's based on the vamation of the job which is determined by d.b.i. -- the valuation of the job which is determined by d.b.i. we charge these based on their fee schedule. chairman murphy: does d.b.i. determine what plannings' fees

are? >> no, we don't. planning does their own nexus study and set their own fees as does every other department. we collect the fees for planning. but we don't determine the amount of the fees. or the fee charge, what the fee is based upon. chairman murphy: ok. so we just essentially write the check for what they say they want. >> yes. chairman murphy: has that ever been questioned? >> no. in other words, the planning fees, they would bring them to the board of supervisors just like we have a fee schedule that our commission approves and we forward to the board of supervisors to be a proved. so that's their process also. they would take their proposed fee schedule to their commission for approval and then take it to the board of supervisors for incorporation if they're changing the fees or increasing them. chairman murphy: i see what you mean. like their fees are high.

director day: i don't know what they're basing their fees on. i haven't studied their nexus study. chairman murphy: could we get a report from them how they base their fees? director day: we can certainly have someone from their admin department come over and explain how they determine their fees, i'm sure. we can have that as a future agenda item. chairman murphy: yes. let's put that on the aend, ann, for maybe -- agenda, ann, for maybe november. director day: we used to have -- she no longer can come to the meetings. she asked if d.b.i. is charging planning for those fees. are we charging them an administration fee? director day: we do charge them a slight administration fee for our counting and -- yes, that is included. that's the charge from our

department to planning department and from our don't any other department that we collect fees for, the fee basis for. commissioner lee: i guess the question, is that fee then passed on to the customer? director day: we're not charging the customers for that fee. we're charging the planning department. whether planning department incorporates what we charge them into their fees -- commissioner lee: that's what i was wondering. chairman murphy: it'sen -- -- commissioner hechanova: it's an internal assessment. >> internal. director day: she did want know give her name, edith. i don't know if any of you remember edith. >> do we have any public comment or do the commissioners have any further discussion? public comments? >> hello. this is an issue where some time back to get a permit to replace windows and the planning would charge like

$800, however they determined the fees. it was really sky high. they said, wait a minute, we'll drop it down to $400. what i'm finding and i had a very upset client recently where we got a building permit and it was just for the planning part of it, for a stair and a bathroom. the job itself was much, much larger. the cost, i believe, of that portion of the job was about $10,000. it wasn't that big. however, the planning fee was like $2,700. so i don't know how you get this fee from planning. i'm sort of lost at that i never saw anyone from planning saying what their determination of their portion of the work is. of what they're signing off on. i would think that planning would look at their portion of the work and that would be -- that's how they valuate the fee. but to determine the whole

project if that's what they're doing, there's something wrong with that. i like to see us come back. we need to see how they're doing it. it really sun justified. i had a very, very unhappy client when they saw that just the planning part was $2,700. ok, fine, sign it. thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. next speaker, please. >> can we reset the clock, president murphy? chairman murphy: yes. >> thank you. good morning, commissioners. again, luke o'brien. coalition for responsible growth. primarily i want to support what the previous speaker said. i think it's a legitimate point. we should definitely, i think, put some effort into reviewing the fee that are charged by planning. i think can i infer from part

of what you said, director. it is plan who are telling what you those fees are. so i understand that. and you're merely following, executing, orders. since you are the collector of the fee, though, that's going to engage you in the process of trying to revisit the fee schedule. so i think it's a great idea that you have somebody come here who could explain the planning fees. i would point out that the last time that i looked at this, i wanted them to try and understand what the fees were. what initiated that was a similar discussion as the previous speaker, a fee that sounded rather absorb tent. and to be perfectly honest with you, i ended up giving up on the process. the phone rang and i went on to the next item because it was just impossible. we all trying to understand how to read a cell phone bill and understand all the taxes. we usually give up and are just at the mercy of the big compingses -- corporations.

but for something local as the planning department i don't think it's too much to ask that we have a fee schedule that is clearcut, easy to understand. as simple as a contractor might charge a client to do a job, time, materials, dollars per hours, whatever it is. it should be pretty straight forward, and it's not right now. so that should get put in there in the discussion that these fees are easy to understand for people to reference later. i think you'll probably find that the planning department are going to struggle a little bit to justify some of the fees. the last time i looked at it. and i'm looking forward to that discussion. thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. next speaker. seeing none. >> we can move on to item number nine. commissioner's questions and matters. item 9-a. are there any inquiries to staff? commissioner lee: yes. i have one.

chairman murphy: commissioner lee? commissioner lee: i was just wondering, when can we get that announcement -- >> we can't hear you. commissioner lee: we need to nominate people to the three subcommittees on the website. >> i have submitted it to the website. i will check again today when i go back. i looked this morning myself to see if it was on. i'll let you know later today. commissioner lee: thank you. chairman murphy: commissioner hechanova? commissioner hechanova: do we have an update on where the del mar issue is? chairman murphy: do you have an update on that, ann? >> i spoke with -- that's an a.a.b. item. i spoke with francesca gessner because we were going to give a brief update. she said since it's been over a year that it would be good for the abatement appeals to have a

hearing and to notice the building again and to have the people involved in 135 come forward for a full hearing so we'll do that on the november meeting. commissioner hechanova: and so they're notified? >> they will be notified. the building will be posted. yes. commissioner hechanova: thank you. >> anything else? chairman murphy: any further questions? seeing none. >> any public comments? >> hi, commissioners. i do want to commitment d.b.i. for the fifth floor it really is a pleasure to go up there and to work. it's really neistly set up. -- nicely set up. it does work. i just wanted to commend the director and d.b.i. for providing that service that we have up on the fifth floor.

i'm quite happy with it on that part of it. so thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. the only thing i'd like to say is -- thank you, vivian, director, for clarifying that our regular meetings all the ye customers going to be on a regular basis and all the department heads will be there, or the department heads that need to be there will be there. >> i cannot guarantee that the department heads will be here. they usually send representatives of the department. actually, john comes from and kelly was attending at one point. i don't know who is scheduled to attend now from planning. barbara used to attend from

d.p.w. i don't know if the new manager will. pu p.u.c. comes. the actual people that do the plan check comes from p.u.c. there and they're on staff. so i'm trying to get as many people. we have a representative from the health department that comes normally. chairman murphy: so do we have somebody coordinated to let people know when the meeting will be? >> yes. we have a regular agenda. we post the agenda. it's normally on the third thursday of every month. so we will have one on the 21st of this month. that's our next scheduled meeting. >> do we have an attendance sheet? >> we have the sign-in sheet and the original b.p.r. sheet and we send out notices to all the b.p.r. people that were on it and as people join the list, they're added to the list. so we email the agenda out to everyone before the meeting. >> why don't we ask -- could we

ask for a copy of the sign-in sheet and the distribution list for our next meeting and just for -- chairman murphy: have it in our package for each month? >> sure. >> that would be great. chairman murphy: that's all. >> yeah, that's no problem. we can also include the minutes from the meeting, too, if you want them in printed form. chairman murphy: yes, that would be great. >> they are online. chairman murphy: next item. >> 9-b, future meetings and agendas. >> hi. chairman murphy: commissioner clinch. commissioner clinch: we not meet on the 21st depending on the preferences. chairman murphy: any other comments, commoirs? commissioner clinch: i can't attend on the 20th. >> ok, so our next meeting would be november 17. chairman murphy: majority has spoken. >> ok. all those in favor. >> aye.

>> opposed. ok. item number 10 is adjournment. chairman murphy: motion to adjourn. >> second. s >> aye. >> all in favor. >> aye. >> thank you.

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