your original motion would have meant that we could not have paid -- that the contract would have been over, we couldn't pay them for any work that they do and you would not get any -- any more deliverables. if we do this on a month-to-month basis it takes a significant amount of staff work to draft the documents, get it through, you know, the contract administration, get signatures on it. there is -- yeah. there's a burden, administrative burden. i just wanted to make that clear. chairman murphy: i understand. supervisor mar: i like to propose my original notion extend it to december. commissioner lee: my concern was if we do extend it all the way to december, what happens if we're not finished in december? it's going to get extended again.

even prior to december, just finish it as quickly as possible. that's my only thought of not extending it to december. try to get this done earlier. chairman murphy: any comment from the vendor on this? >> laurence with the department of building inspection. i believe december 31 is a reasonable date. we've done, as you heard through previous -- we believe we can complete it. we believe we have enough scheduled meetings and so on. i hope we don't need any further extensions beyond that it just seems like our reasonable completion date. we're focused on that. commissioner lee: well -- >> i can't hear you, sir.

>> speak into the mike. commissioner lee: i'm sorry. i'm not sure what the other commissioners are tint on except maybe commissioner mar. i'm willing to extend it to the next meet and then bring it up with everybody else again. i don't know why it's taking that long. i'm ok with until november. chairman murphy: are you seconding my motion? commissioner lee: sure. why not? chairman murphy: do i have a second for commissioner mar's motion? >> just a moment. i'm conferring. the motion that was made now is the continuing to extend the contract until november 17 meeting. i believe commissioner hechanova seconded that.

commissioner hechanova: i beg your pardon? >> on president murphy's motion to -- commissioner hechanova: extend the contract to the 17th. yes. i seconded. >> yes. so we had a motion and a second. and then we have another motion. so we need to vote on the first motion. so we need to vote on the first motion as to extend the contract to the november 17. chairman murphy: is that the date for our november meeting, 17th? >> november 17 >> chairman murphy: yeah. that's my motion. >> so we need to vote on that motion. chairman murphy: yes. >> so, president murphy? chairman murphy: yes. [roll call] >> once again this motion carries on a vote of 4-1 that means that the contract for capps is extended until november 17 and will be

discussed again at that time. chairman murphy: ok. next item. any public comments on this? i see none. >> ok. we are now on item number 6, update on how d.b.i. determines permit fees charged for planning services. >> good morning, commissioners. the planning department has a fee schedule for permits. and the actual planning department determines -- it's based on the vamation of the job which is determined by d.b.i. -- the valuation of the job which is determined by d.b.i. we charge these based on their fee schedule. chairman murphy: does d.b.i.

determine what plannings' fees are? >> no, we don't. planning does their own nexus study and set their own fees as does every other department. we collect the fees for planning. but we don't determine the amount of the fees. or the fee charge, what the fee is based upon. chairman murphy: ok. so we just essentially write the check for what they say they want. >> yes. chairman murphy: has that ever been questioned? >> no. in other words, the planning fees, they would bring them to the board of supervisors just like we have a fee schedule that our commission approves and we forward to the board of supervisors to be a proved. so that's their process also. they would take their proposed fee schedule to their commission for approval and then take it to the board of supervisors for incorporation if they're changing the fees or increasing them. chairman murphy: i see what you mean. like their fees are high.

director day: i don't know what they're basing their fees on. i haven't studied their nexus study. chairman murphy: could we get a report from them how they base their fees? director day: we can certainly have someone from their admin department come over and explain how they determine their fees, i'm sure. we can have that as a future agenda item. chairman murphy: yes. let's put that on the aend, ann, for maybe -- agenda, ann, for maybe november. director day: we used to have -- she no longer can come to the meetings. she asked if d.b.i. is charging planning for those fees. are we charging them an administration fee? director day: we do charge them a slight administration fee for our counting and -- yes, that is included.

that's the charge from our department to planning department and from our don't any other department that we collect fees for, the fee basis for. commissioner lee: i guess the question, is that fee then passed on to the customer? director day: we're not charging the customers for that fee. we're charging the planning department. whether planning department incorporates what we charge them into their fees -- commissioner lee: that's what i was wondering. chairman murphy: it'sen -- -- commissioner hechanova: it's an internal assessment. >> internal. director day: she did want know give her name, edith. i don't know if any of you remember edith. >> do we have any public comment or do the commissioners have any further discussion? public comments? >> hello. this is an issue where some time back to get a permit to replace windows and the

planning would charge like $800, however they determined the fees. it was really sky high. they said, wait a minute, we'll drop it down to $400. what i'm finding and i had a very upset client recently where we got a building permit and it was just for the planning part of it, for a stair and a bathroom. the job itself was much, much larger. the cost, i believe, of that portion of the job was about $10,000. it wasn't that big. however, the planning fee was like $2,700. so i don't know how you get this fee from planning. i'm sort of lost at that i never saw anyone from planning saying what their determination of their portion of the work is. of what they're signing off on. i would think that planning would look at their portion of the work and that would be -- that's how they valuate the fee.

but to determine the whole project if that's what they're doing, there's something wrong with that. i like to see us come back. we need to see how they're doing it. it really sun justified. i had a very, very unhappy client when they saw that just the planning part was $2,700. ok, fine, sign it. thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. next speaker, please. >> can we reset the clock, president murphy? chairman murphy: yes. >> thank you. good morning, commissioners. again, luke o'brien. coalition for responsible growth. primarily i want to support what the previous speaker said. i think it's a legitimate point. we should definitely, i think, put some effort into reviewing the fee that are charged by planning.

i think can i infer from part of what you said, director. it is plan who are telling what you those fees are. so i understand that. and you're merely following, executing, orders. since you are the collector of the fee, though, that's going to engage you in the process of trying to revisit the fee schedule. so i think it's a great idea that you have somebody come here who could explain the planning fees. i would point out that the last time that i looked at this, i wanted them to try and understand what the fees were. what initiated that was a similar discussion as the previous speaker, a fee that sounded rather absorb tent. and to be perfectly honest with you, i ended up giving up on the process. the phone rang and i went on to the next item because it was just impossible. we all trying to understand how to read a cell phone bill and understand all the taxes. we usually give up and are just at the mercy of the big

compingses -- corporations. but for something local as the planning department i don't think it's too much to ask that we have a fee schedule that is clearcut, easy to understand. as simple as a contractor might charge a client to do a job, time, materials, dollars per hours, whatever it is. it should be pretty straight forward, and it's not right now. so that should get put in there in the discussion that these fees are easy to understand for people to reference later. i think you'll probably find that the planning department are going to struggle a little bit to justify some of the fees. the last time i looked at it. and i'm looking forward to that discussion. thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. next speaker. seeing none. >> we can move on to item number nine. commissioner's questions and matters. item 9-a. are there any inquiries to staff? commissioner lee: yes.

i have one. chairman murphy: commissioner lee? commissioner lee: i was just wondering, when can we get that announcement -- >> we can't hear you. commissioner lee: we need to nominate people to the three subcommittees on the website. >> i have submitted it to the website. i will check again today when i go back. i looked this morning myself to see if it was on. i'll let you know later today. commissioner lee: thank you. chairman murphy: commissioner hechanova? commissioner hechanova: do we have an update on where the del mar issue is? chairman murphy: do you have an update on that, ann? >> i spoke with -- that's an a.a.b. item. i spoke with francesca gessner because we were going to give a brief update. she said since it's been over a year that it would be good for

the abatement appeals to have a hearing and to notice the building again and to have the people involved in 135 come forward for a full hearing so we'll do that on the november meeting. commissioner hechanova: and so they're notified? >> they will be notified. the building will be posted. yes. commissioner hechanova: thank you. >> anything else? chairman murphy: any further questions? seeing none. >> any public comments? >> hi, commissioners. i do want to commitment d.b.i. for the fifth floor it really is a pleasure to go up there and to work. it's really neistly set up. -- nicely set up. it does work. i just wanted to commend the director and d.b.i. for providing that service that we have up on the fifth floor.

i'm quite happy with it on that part of it. so thank you. chairman murphy: thank you. the only thing i'd like to say is -- thank you, vivian, director, for clarifying that our regular meetings all the ye customers going to be on a regular basis and all the department heads will be there, or the department heads that need to be there will be there. >> i cannot guarantee that the department heads will be here. they usually send representatives of the department. actually, john comes from and kelly was attending at one point. i don't know who is scheduled to attend now from planning. barbara used to attend from

d.p.w. i don't know if the new manager will. pu p.u.c. comes. the actual people that do the plan check comes from p.u.c. there and they're on staff. so i'm trying to get as many people. we have a representative from the health department that comes normally. chairman murphy: so do we have somebody coordinated to let people know when the meeting will be? >> yes. we have a regular agenda. we post the agenda. it's normally on the third thursday of every month. so we will have one on the 21st of this month. that's our next scheduled meeting. >> do we have an attendance sheet? >> we have the sign-in sheet and the original b.p.r. sheet and we send out notices to all the b.p.r. people that were on it and as people join the list, they're added to the list. so we email the agenda out to everyone before the meeting.

>> why don't we ask -- could we ask for a copy of the sign-in sheet and the distribution list for our next meeting and just for -- chairman murphy: have it in our package for each month? >> sure. >> that would be great. chairman murphy: that's all. >> yeah, that's no problem. we can also include the minutes from the meeting, too, if you want them in printed form. chairman murphy: yes, that would be great. >> they are online. chairman murphy: next item. >> 9-b, future meetings and agendas. >> hi. chairman murphy: commissioner clinch. commissioner clinch: we not meet on the 21st depending on the preferences. chairman murphy: any other comments, commoirs? commissioner clinch: i can't attend on the 20th. >> ok, so our next meeting would be november 17. chairman murphy: majority has spoken. >> ok. all those in favor. >> aye.

>> opposed. ok. item number 10 is adjournment. chairman murphy: motion to adjourn. >> second. s >> aye. >> all in favor. >> aye. >> thank you.

>> there has been an acknowledgement of the special places around san francisco bay. well, there is something sort of innate in human beings, i think, that tend to recognize a good spot when you see it, a spot that takes your breath away. this is one of them. >> an icon of the new deal. >> we stood here a week ago and we heard all of these dignitaries talk about the symbol that coit tower is for san francisco. it's interesting for those of us in the pioneer park project is trying to make the point that not only the tower, not only this man-built edifice

here is a symbol of the city but also the green space on which it sits and the hill to which is rests. to understand them, you have to understand the topography of san francisco. early days of the city, the city grows up in what is the financial district on the edge of chinatown. everything they rely on for existence is the golden gate. it's of massive importance to the people what comes in and out of san francisco bay. they can't see it where they are. they get the idea to build a giant wooden structure. the years that it was up here, it gave the name telegraph hill. it survived although the structure is long gone. come to the 1870's and the city has growed up remarkably. it's fueled with money from the nevada silver mines and the gold rush. it's trying to be the paris of the west. now the beach is the suburbs, the we will their people lived on the bottom and the poorest

people lived on the top because it was very hard getting to the top of telegraph hill. it was mostly lean-to sharks and bits of pieces of houses up here in the beginning. and a group of 20 businessmen decided that it would be better if the top of the hill remained for the public. so they put their money down and they bought four lots at the top of the hill and they gave them to the city. lily hitchcock coit died without leaving a specific use for her bequest. she left a third of her estate for the beautify indication of the city. arthur brown, noted architect in the city, wanted for a while to build a tower. he had become very interested in persian towers. it was the 1930's. it was all about machinery and sort of this amazing architecture, very powerful architecture. he convinced the rec park commission that building a tower in her memory would be the thing to do with her money.

>> it was going to be a wonderful observation place because it was one of the highest hills in the city anywhere and that that was the whole reason why it was built that high and had the elevator access immediately from the beginning as part of its features. >> my fear's studio was just down the street steps. we were in a very small apartment and that was our backyard. when they were preparing the site for the coit tower, there was always a lot of harping and griping about how awful progress was and why they would choose this beautiful pristine area to do them in was a big question. as soon as the coit tower was getting finished and someone put in the idea that it should be used for art, then, all of a

sudden, he was excited about the coit tower. it became almost like a daily destination for him to enjoy the atmosphere no matter what the politics, that wasn't the point. as long as they fit in and did their work and did their own creative expression, that was all that was required. they turned in their drawings. the drawings were accepted. if they snuck something in, well, there weren't going to be any stoolies around. they made such careful little diagrams of every possible little thing about it as though that was just so important and that they were just the big frog. and, actually, no one ever felt that way about them and they weren't considered something

like that. in later life when people would approach me and say, well, what did you know about it? we were with him almost every day and his children, we grew up together and we didn't think of him as a commie and also the same with the other. he was just a family man doing normal things. no one thought anything of what he was doing. some of them were much more highly trained. it shows, in my estimation, in the murals. this was one of the masterpieces. families at home was a lot more close to the life that i can remember that we lived. murals on the upper floors like the children playing on the

swings and i think the little deer in the forest where you could come and see them in the woods and the sports that were always available, i think it did express the best part of our lives. things that weren't costing money to do, you would go to a picnic on the beach or you would do something in the woods. my favorite of all is in the staircase. it's almost a miracle masterpiece how he could manage to not only fit everyone, of course, a lot of them i recognized from my childhood -- it's how he juxtaposed and managed to kind of climb up that stairway on either side very much like you are walking down a street. it was incredible to do that and to me, that is what depicted the life of the times in san francisco. i even like the ones that show

the industrial areas, the once with the workers showing them in the cannery and i can remember going in there and seeing these women with the caps, with the nets shuffling these cans through. my parents had a ranch in santa rosa and we went there all summer. i could see these people leaning over and checking. it looked exactly like the beautiful things about the ranch. i think he was pretty much in the never look back philosophy about the coit. i don't think he ever went to visit again after we moved from telegraph hill, which was only five or six years later. i don't think he ever had to see it when the initials are scratched into everything and people had literally destroyed the lower half of everything.

>> well, in my view, the tower had been pretty much neglected from the 1930's up until the 1980's. it wasn't until then that really enough people began to be alarmed about the condition of the murals, the tower was leaking. some of the murals suffered wear damage. we really began to organize getting funding through the arts commission and various other sources to restore the murals. they don't have that connection or thread or maintain that connection to your history and your past, what do you have? that's one of the major elements of what makes quality of life in san francisco so incredible. when people ask me, and they ask me all the time, how do you get to coit tower, i say you walk. that's the best way to experience the gradual

elevation coming up above the hustle and bustle of the city and finding this sort of oasis, if you will, at the top of the hill. when i walk through this park, i look at these brick walls and this lawn, i look at the railings around the murals. i look at the restoration and i think, yeah, i had something to do with that. learning the lessons, thank you, landmarks meet landmarks. the current situation at pioneer park and coit tower is really based in public and private partnership. it was the citizens who came together to buy the land to keep it from being developed. it was lily hitchcock coit to give money to the city to beautify the city she loved of the park project worked to develop this south side and still that's the basis of our future project to address the