is a system that basically is so, so prejudice on one side, it really doesn't make a lot of difference. >> president marshall: any further public comment on this item? thank you. item number 4, please. >> item four is the election of commission officers. president marshall: finally once again commissioner dejesus: can i ask for a break? president marshall: we don't take breaks. we keep going. we got to keep move. we got to move forward. i really do. commissioner dejesus: i want a vote to have a break. commissioner hammer: a vote to have a break?

commissioner chan: i think we can break. president marshall: i think we can proceed. commissioner hammer: it doesn't seem like we've been going all that long. we should move things along. president marshall: we've been through this before. i want to make a statement before we begin. i have wanted to keep the team together. i have talked about this several times. i think the team has served the commission well, and that's the team of, i guess, thomas mazzucco. a couple things i wanted to do during my time as president to make an impact on and that is the achievements. i think we've moved along.

and secondly to really try to impact the disciplinary cases. and with everybody pitching in and making it happen, i think we've done a remarkable job. i'm really pleased about that. i'm very, very pleased about that. that being said, i will say this . a few months ago on the commission, i think it was may or june, i can't remember when we did, this item was up and we did place names and nomination, and at that point v.p. mazzucco, had five commissioners, and he could have been president. in fact, we went to the extent

of trying to change the rules. however, you declined. you actually voted against yourself. and you did that for me. and so tonight i want to do something for you, and i would like to place your name in nba.com -- name in nomination for president of the san francisco police commission. commissioner hammer: i will second. commissioner dejesus: before we do that, i think we should have a discussion of what we're looking for in a president. i think that is very important. and i also think the make-up of the leadership is also important. i think we should have a discussion of the make-up of the leadership. i wanted to put that forward. president marshall: you can suggest anything. i have a second.

commissioner hammer: i have a second. president marshall: are people ready to vote or do you have anything to say prior to that? commissioner hammer: well, i'll explain a little bit my seconding the motion. obviously i'm a junior member on this committee, and i have served for a month or so, but i appreciate the leadership of both president marshall and vice president mazzucco. i think president marshall, your comments tonight were incredibly gracious and moving and i think that if you are ready to move on and to have vice president mazzucco assume the presidency, he's clearly, in my brief tenure shown a tremendous knowledge and control and desire to have everybody heard while at the same time being cognizant of moving the agenda and keeping the public involved. so i always support vice

president mazzucco becoming the president, and that's why i second the nomination. i was intended to -- intending to nominate him myself. i think we should consider that nomination and vote as a motion and second and then we can separately consider the vice president position. commissioner dejesus: you have a screen in front of you. president marshall: i thought you had already spoken. commissioner dejesus: i think before we vote we need to discuss what we're looking for and the qualities in a president. i want to point out, when prop h. passed over eight years ago, it did provide for broader reputation in the leadership. to that end, the commission, whether they did it by agreement, which i was told that they did, but they did select

members from the board of services as well as commissioners supported by mayors commission of leadership. they did have gender diversity on the commission leadership. i believe louise renning was the president of the newly formed prop 8, the newly formed police commission. and then when she left, david campos was the vice president. you had a reputation from the board as well as the board of supervisors as well as the mayor's office. and i think that is something we should talk about and something we should consider before we start just moving to place people into positions of leadership. so to that end i move that we have a discussion that we have a broader reputation on the board

for the political make-up of this commission as well as strive for gender diversity as well. >> one of the things, if you are not going to go there, i will put it out there, as well. i expect in this leadership is unit. i didn't see that. i saw a press conference attacking four city commissioner's opinions where other commissioners and the commission leadership went in support of that press conference. i thought that was a very devicive tactic. i thought that was a lack of leadership. and the fact that the leadership didn't even think that that might be a slight or a backlash on the other commissioners was shocking to me. so i think that which want a leader that talks about unit of this commission instead of devicive tactics. certainly this year has been a difficult year for me because of the unstability in dealing with some of the people, some of the

issues that have come up here, and i really think civility, which we talked about at our retreat, is something we need to keep pursuing, and i think that is something a strong leader would insist on at a commission level. i also think inclusiveness. we also have not been inclusive this year. many of us commissioners have read about what's going on in the commission in the newspapers. and that's actually lack of information. there has been a lot of lack of information, and there has not been inclusiveness. so there's a there was just a lack of disseminating foss. some people knew -- disseminating information. some people knew and some didn't know. i think as a commission, there isn't anyone who has more power than anyone else, and that's something we should talk about. i think we need strong leadership to deal with the commission itself, strong leadership in dealing with department heads. i think we need someone who will do the right thing in the face

of adversity, and someone speaking their own mind and not acting with a predetermined agenda. i also think we need reputation of the different as secretaries that -- aspects that make up this commission rather than what we have already had. and i also think we need respect for the chain of command, and i think the a commissioner should enforce the chain of command in the commission and the department. so i think we do need to talk about that before we start throwing names out there or having predetermined agendas. i think that's important. those are my two cents. president marshall: commissioner chan? commissioner chan: commissioner marshall, i want to thank you for your service. i know it is a lot of extra work to be the commissioner, and there is a big burden of communicating things to us. i know when things go wrong, you thank take the heat. i appreciate the time you have

spent, and i'm glad you put the nomination forward, and i would support commissioner mazzucco becoming president. when you have run the meetings, they have been run very, very well, and i look forward to you taking that position on. i agree with commissioner dejesus we need balance. i would say when we discuss the vice presidentsy, that we do think about a balance between the sprpt -- between the vice president and the president to make sure everyone knows what's happening and there is no communication gap. and the final point i wanted to make is i mentioned this a couple -- mentioned this earlier, is that we want a president that communicates and everyone knows what's happening when it is happening and not from reading in the newspaper. another piece is to be responsible and open to the public not just from that public comment but from the public in general. i see that as a primary responsibility in being a liason

to the public. the last piece of what i'm looking for in a president is someone who is independent and is critical but also supportive of the department and of the chief and doesn't rubber stamp any decision but comes to their own decision based on their own analysis, and sometimes it will be the same as what the department wants or the chief wants, and sometimes it will be different. so this is for me to talk equality, and that's what i'm going for in terms of voting for the president tonight. thank you for hearing me out. president marshall: commissioner hammer. commissioner hammer: first, commissioner marshall, i want to say thank you. i have known you about a year now that you have been on the commission. what affects me so much about your leadership, we talked two weeks ago about a meeting, and your response was, let's see what the other commissioners want. you took yourself out of the equation and asked everyone to weigh in, in a way other people

would not. what you have brought this commission and your leadership, i want to say thank you. and i'm honored to serve. i've known commissioner mazzucco for 10 years. we shared an sfr office together. i could support him today because we're friends, but i'm not going to do that. at the end of the day, whoever is president is first among equals. that is we all vote, we all contribute, and we all have different perspectives. what i was going to say, with tippy, with commissioner mazzucco, what's unique even though he's the son of a cop, he's not necessarily going to rubber stamp everything a police officer does. he like me holds a police

officer to a higher standard because his father was a member of this department. and he more than many commissioners, i could imagine, has really low toll rens for -- tolerance for misconduct, because he understands the heart of the mission. you have reached out to people that completely disagree with your position, and you have done it without rancor and ego, because i think at the end of the day you want to do what is best for san francisco. i think you would make an extraordinary president. i am going to vote for you. i would ask you to commit yourself for the commiggers to raise the things they are for. vice president mazzucco: thank you, all of my fellow commissioners, and thank you dr. marshall.

those of you that know me know i am not comfortable in a political setting. i did this job and i'm on this commission because i believe, as i have done for the last 19 years in serving my community, something i was taught by my dad, and i love the city of san francisco. that's where i'm born and raised. that's where my wife and i raised our children. my wife is born and raised here. it is important to me to be part of this commission. we are all equals. i am the one sitting in the middle with diverse opinions. and my role and goal would be that there is unit. and i really want unit again. i'm honored by everything you said. i don't know if i -- i don't know. it's an honor. the san francisco police department, police commission, has been a big part of my life for obvious reasons. as both the prosecutor and member of the police family. my rain role is to be part of the community, the main liason

with the community, to work with this community, and work with this chief. again, it is a great honor. if i were your president, my goal would be unit to involve everyone in every decision. i will communicate with you. that's never been an issue with me. sometimes i communicate too much. it would be a great honor to serve on this commission and serve the city and county. san francisco is the greatest city in the world. just look at the city, its diversity and everything. i represent the city. i'm a native. i'm part of the fabric of the city, and again, i'll do whatever the city wants. president marshall: so we -- commissioner dejesus: i would move that angela chan be the vice president. president marshall: one at a

time. the name of commissioner mazzucco has been entered. i believe i must take public comment before we vote on president. public comment, please. >> members of the commission, ray hart, director of san francisco, open government. i really can't understand how you could possibly elect commissioner mazzucco as president of this commission. the first meeting i was here he interrupted my public comment twice. the second time i just gave up. i figured who is this guy, and does he really believe that he has the right to superseed the constitution and keep me from making public comment? i found out subsequently he's a practicing attorney, member of the california bar, former prosecutor, and i have to concede or figure that he's -- somewhere along the line, he was involved in constitutional issues.

the second time he stopped me at that first meeting, i said, you're vithe violating my constitutional right. his sarcastic as i took it, comment, oh, absolutely not. i would never do that. i'm just following the rules and procedures. two weeks later, i came back, and he did it three more times. with the exception of once, i was allowed to continue. so did he have a good faith belief that i was actually talking out of turn or violating the rules or did he simply stop me for some other purpose? five times, and at the last time i was allowed to continue, was at the site of the deputy city attorney. you cannot have someone -- and the second time, he was the presiding officer. the constitution is the basis of our government.

whether you are talking about the united states constitution, the state of california's constitution, or whatever. the bottom line is, members of the public have the right to come up here and they shouldn't have number one a litmus test to prove that they have the right to speak. they shouldn't have to engage in continual arguments. interrupt me once, i say, well, ok, made a mistake. twice, ok. three times? four times? five times? when you are a practicing attorney and you must know that there is really not much you can stop a person from saying? and i was allowed to continue in almost every one of those cases. so if you really want to elect someone who has shown -- such open hostility. it wasn't just me. i've seen him do it to two other people. one man said, what? how can you tell i'm saying

something wrong? can you read minds? the bottom line is, if you elect him as the president of this board, i think it is really, really just asking for trouble in the sense that public comment will be -- [bell] -- and people coming before this board will be discouraged from doing so. president marshall: further public comment? all right. the name of tom mazzucco has been placed in nomination for president of the police commission. would you please call the rules. we'll vote. >> commissioner marshall. commissioner thomas mazzucco. vice president mazzucco: aye. >> commissioner petra dejesus? commissioner dejesus: aye. >> commissioner hammer?

commissioner hammer: aye. >> commissioner slaughter? mr. slaughter: sky -- aye. president marshall: we now move to the nomination of vice president. commissioner dejesus: i have nominated angela chan. commissioner slaughter: i would like to nominate commissioner kingsley. new hampshire i think the chair can call it how the chair wants. meaning there can be multiple nominations. whatever the chair chooses. commissioner slaughter: i would like to nominate commissioner marshall to be my vice president. i would like to have dr. marshall as my vice president.

i would like to nominate dr. marshall. president marshall: second. does anyone have public comment on the nomination for vice president. commissioner dejesus: we haven't had any discussion. president marshall: i was waiting for -- commissioner dejesus: i think we have the leadership of marshall and mazzucco this year, and i think there were a lot of things that were lacking. one of them was information and the other was strong leadership. i think commissioner mazzucco understands our intent and understands that we want to be included, but i also think it is important that this leadership reflect, as i said, to affect the make-up of the commission, but also very importantly,

gender diversity. i believe commissioner chan brings a different set of values to the commission. i think she is very diligent. she has already proven in terms of sharing information or making sure everybody is informed, i think she would be an excellent candidate. i'm sure -- i think we need to consider gender diversity. commissioner hammer: president marshall, thank you, and i appreciate your comments on vice president as well as the president, and your comments about making sure we have a leadership that reflects the commission and reflects what individual commissioners view as strengths and weaknesses. having a team, obviously each commissioner needs to make for

himself or herself the judgment about what -- which person will best serve the commission and the community. with respect to that, i take our president elect mazzucco's nomination very seriously, because obviously the president and the vice president are going to have to work closely together with the rest of the commission. and on that basis, i'm going to support commissioner mazzucco's nomination of president marshall to become the vice president, and i'm going to take them at their word that they are going to work on the issues that have been raised here today primarily about communication and inclusiveness in terms of members of the commission and the community. before we lay down our vote, i wanted people to understand why

i am voting the way i was. commissioner hammer: i second the vote for commissioner chan. i think to pass the baton as we go is a hopeful thing. i have been incredibly impressed with commissioner chan. your work ethic, even if you aren't in a leadership role, you have been helping to lead us through things. commissioner kingsley, you helped lead the retreat and define our priorities, and i'm grateful for that. i'm a tough customer to be impressed by lawyers, and i'm very impressed by you and your work, and i'm glad you are on the commission, and that's why i'm seconding you. president marshall: commissioner chan. commissioner chan: thank you for the nomination, i appreciate it, and thank you for the very kind comments. i did not at all expect to come here and be nba.com nailted for that. i appreciate that very much. i would like to encourage everyone on here to really have an independent analysis of this and to think about the balance

between the board appointees and the mayor appointees. i think it is expected that the mayor appointees would reflect someone that is appointed by the mayor. that is expected. it wouldn't surprise me. i think it would be better if there was an independent analysis. th that would ensure there was balance across the board with all the commissioners. when we don't communicate because there isn't a balance, it becomes problem matic and it becomes more work later on and more headaches for the chief. with that i want to thank you again for the nomination. i understand -- i think i know where the vote is going to fall, and i wish it were different. commissioner hammer: i would like to say one more thing, especially after what commissioner chan just said now. commissioner chan has been incredibly outgoing to me as i have joined this committee, and

has been a tremendous, tremendous resource to me getting me up to speed. i don't want to have the impression left by my vote here that i in anyway think that commissioner chan isn't doing anything but an outstanding job for the city and the commission and the department. as i said, i think i have to respect commissioner mazzucco's desire to have the person as vice president that he thinks will best be able to work together. we obviously owe president marshall a tremendous debt of gratitude for all his work and if he's willing to lend his valuable insight to the commission and leadership, i would appreciate it. as i said, i don't want my vote here to be seen as -- i want to say i support president marshall and thank you, commissioner chan. president marshall: commissioner kingsley. it seems like i should weigh in with my two cents considering everybody else has.

but just very briefly, i would like to reiterate some of the things that commissioner slaughter has said, but, you know, very directly, it has been a pleasure every time i have had occasion to work with commissioner chan. she is a brilliant person. she is very smart, organized, lots of energy, gets things done. i very much appreciate commissioner dejesus' bringing to our attention what diversity brings to a commission, to any board, in fact, and the importance of that gender diversity. commissioner chan mentioned diversity across the political spectrum. i agree. i think all of those pr incredibly important issues and considerations, and applaud them, and it is one of the reasons why the commission as a whole, and its make-up as a whole, is very special.

all seven of us working together, and we are a unit working together. and i think that the jobs of president and vice president are -- the president's job, yes, requires considerably more work as opposed to, you know, the other six commissioners. vice president not so much. but in terms of the other powers , abilities, responsibilities and so on, all seven commissioners really stand on equal footing from that perspective. and i think that all seven of us bring special talents and abilities to the commission, and could frankly do the job of president or vice president. if we're down to choosing two, and commissioner mazzucco, we

unanimously have elected him, and for very good reason. he's outstanding and has tremendous responsibility. with all of that said, my vote is going to go to commissioner marshall in terms of the vice president spot. and i think that the continuity is important. i think he's served the commission well. i think with commissioner mazzucco nominating him and more or less asking us as commissioners to allow commissioner marshall to keep serving to assist him and use his experience to assist commissioner mazzucco is very commissioner mazzucco is very important.