grant. systems that work better in nightclub. it has really got to be black and white. you can't really get color in low light environments. the technology really doesn't

exist, and it is really, really expensive. you are looking at black and white, and what i've found as far as costs -- the quality just isn't there. >> commissioner? >> just a few questions.

>> it has to be connected through the modem and have access through that. most of them you can view on mobile devices. >> do your monitors have split screen technology, or do you need a monitor for each camera? >> all those, the d.v.r.'s we use, it depends on how many you are looking for, but they go in four, eight, 16. >> and so you can go from a split screen to a particular picture if you wanted to see it easily enough? >> right. >> so i have an infrared

security camera at my house for outs, and during the day it does color, and at night it does black and white, and it is really clear. i mean i don't have reflection in it, and it is on every tv some my house. i don't have reflection in it. how do you compensate for lighting? if you're going to do inside the club, how do you compensate for lighting? is it where you hang the camera, or do you have a technology that compensates for moving lights and things like that? >> well, to start with, there are a lot of cameras that are -- outside of your house and inside your house are different environments. outside dark and inside are different situations. >> what about inside the club? >> when we go inside, we like

to use low light cameras that adjust to the different environments or, like i said, a black and white camera. >> thank you. >> any other commissioners? seeing none, thank you very much for your presentation. we will open this to public comment, but again, this is an initial fact-finding as to the technology available. >> i hope it was helpful. >> it was, thank you. >> president and commissioners, mark again. all i can say is whoa, hold on here. article one, section one of the calf constitution guarantees the right of prifesi. aren't you talking about the city and county of san francisco, which is obviously a

governmental body requiring somebody to do this? let's talk about it. you have a $22 an hour person who hates somebody who hates somebody that took their girlfriend away. so he types into the stm that somebody is crazy, pulled a knife, does x, y and z, and that goes out on a national database? come on. that's crazy. thank you. >> in the event that a guy pulls a knife on -- >> name? >> roark o'neal. i am not used to the procedure. in the event that somebody pulls that knife on broadway, and it is on camera, we would like to be able to enforce that. we have been working with them for a while. we are still new to the i.d. system and trying to coordinate

that with the very expensive camera system that we put in play to help change the neighborhood. obviously a lot of this needs to be reviewed further. we are supportive of how to participate in that opportunity. thank you. >> thank you. any other public comment? >> well, i think the police department wants safety first. the fire department wants safety first, and the general population wants safety first. the good thing is we are putting it out here and talking about it. we do need to do more research to find out what is going on. there are concerns about prifesi, but i am glad we are -- privacy, but as we walk through this, we will be with something better in the future. >> thank you. anybody else? seeing none, i call the next

item, item 5, update from the ad hoc committee regarding promoter legislation. commissioner, you want to report? >> thank you. promoters. we have discussed the role of promoters many times at this commission here. there have been numerous incidents where promoters take over a venue for the evening, things go wrong. the next day the promoter is gone and the venue operator is left with the mess to clean up. typical story. there was a previous attempt at the board of supervisors about two years ago to regulate the promoters in the city. sisters of perpetual indulgence came out against it, a lot of

them. small operators came out against it. there was a lot of pressure. i think supervisor dufty led the charge against the legislation, and it died. when permitting was in the hands of the police department, there were rumors that there was a black list, an unofficial black list, and the permit officer would communicate to various claub owners that they would be better off if they did not use certain promoters. that is simply rumor, although it seems to be backed up by an awful lot of support. then six months ago or so there was the incident in the union square area where a promoter publicized an event, attracted

a crowd of young people. when the venue was letting out, some violence began to occur. a german tourist got caught in the middle of it and unfortunately died. the mayor and the president of the board of supervisors called a press conference, and they vowed that they would do something about this. so, we have legislation that is on its way to the board of supervisors. acting director kane, when? >> nor 15th. >> november 15th there will be a hearing before the public safety committee of the board. >> correct. >> we held one hearing. i've talked around with various other people, and i can't really generate enough interest or get any direction to go in to have a second hearing.

i would like to explore this further, but let me just summarize what we learned from the first hearing. this basically has been whittled down to get around the objections that killed the first attempt to legislator to regulate the profmenter industry. basically what we are left with in the latest legislation is just an online registration system. anyone who declares himself or herself to be a promoter goes to own online site and types in name, address and telephone known. that is the basic requirement, that those with an entertainment permit must use a registered promoter, and if

not, there are consequences. they realize it is their place of entertainment permit that is at risk, and you would have to be pretty dumb to brick -- bring in an unskilled promoter that is going to possibly put your permit, your venue and livelihood at risk. bad promoters allegedly will do whatever they have to do to fill up the place. barry from the lounge sat through one and shared a lot of information about how the industry works. he is discouraged that this legislation doesn't have any real substance to it, that you simply has after online registration system, and if that particular promoter has

some trouble, the next time he wants to have an event, somebody else registers as a promoter, and they change the name of the promotion outfit, and they have another event. and if they have trouble, they repeat the process again and again. and there is no indication that this would catch that kind of abuse of this system. barry also mentioned a situation where they have one event every year that involves a battle of the bands. it involves high school-age students. 27 bands. that means 27 promoters -- or 27 promotion entities which could involve 5-10 people all doing their own publicity for

the band they are promoting, and he feels that this would be a great deal of work for the venue to have to track down all of those applications, particularly because it doesn't do anything that would prevent the situation from getting out of control because this would be the first time these people ever registered as promoters, and they wouldn't have a track record. and the next time they come back to do a similar event, the whole personnel is going to change, and they would not have a track record either. so it is a frustrating kind of dilemma. you could pile on a lot stricter rules. you could require the business registration process. you could require references and go on and on. but the legislation has been carefully framed to not go

through the scrutiny or the objections that applied to the legislation that died two years ago. to all we are getting is a system where people have to go to an online site, type in a little bit of information, and they become rengsterd. let mow point out that the union square incident would not have been prevented by this legislation if it had been in place because they did not have a place of entertainment permit. they were not a permitteded venue, so they would not be required to use a registered promoter, and there are no consequences for them. i can't detect any additional interest in trying to fine-tune this legislation. it's pretty much a done deal.

it has been to the small business commission, and they recommended a couple of little tweaks to the legislation, but it is already pretty much set in stone and on its way to the board of supervisors. so as a little addhockey committee which has pretty -- ad hoc committee which has run its course, i have no further recommendations for action. >> thank you, and thank you for your work on the committee. do any commissioners have any comments at this point? seeing none, public comment? seeing non-- none -- >> i would like to make a motion to pass this out of the commission and send it back to the board of supervisors -- >> without recommendation? >> well, it's a start. i think it's a start. it's a start to register people

and to see how it goes, and maybe we can put it forward -- we can put more conditions forward and just start somewhere with this. so i'm going to -- my motion is to move it out of the commission and back to the board with recommendation. >> one more time, commissioner? >> move it out of commission to the board with recommendation. >> with recommendation? >> yes. it's a start. >> i don't know if i understand. >> we are recommending -- we are backing it in other words. we recommend that it go through. >> i see. >> i would just like to add, as you would like to call it, a friendly amendment that we encourage the supervisors to look at pursuiting in this legislation some type of citation attached with a pent

if people fail to comply. if we don't have anything standing behind it, then we are hopeless. so if they would consider that at this junket -- juncture, we have the citation process set up, and that would put a little more teeth into what you have said is not much of an issue now. >> i totally accept that. just to mention one other thing, that if this passes, the entertainment commission might start developing a database. because in order to implement this, we would have to do that, and if we could start building a database, then we could have a database. >> and that database will be giving three by five cards to crystal to keep track of. >> i meant online. >> i know. >> i think to the extent this proposed legislation would make

permit's more circumspect. my question is more definitional. if someone feels they falm under an exception regarding the social character of an event. would the permitee come to you, director kane? if they weren't sure whether or not they needed to have their promoter registered? >> i'm not that familiar with the language. if it says directly that it is the discretion of the entertainment commission, then it would probably devolve to staff. if it is not clear in the legislation, then that would be a question i think for the city attorney in terms of implementation and whether or not that is applied or something that we need to be more specific about.

we are the body that would be implementing this, so in theory the answer would be yes. just in a broad scheme of things, because that -- everything rolls downhill, as you know. >> excuse me. point of order. before this discussion goes any further, we have a motion, and we need a second before we can discuss this. >> you are right. >> thank you. >> second. >> we have a second. further discussion now? go ahead. commissioner meko? >> i would like to speak to this concept of baby steps. i have always lectured about baby steps with regard to the recommended police conditions as well. that even though they are a mess, that they are constitutionally questionable and that they don't necessarily address a lot of the problems in a meaningful way, that we

should move forward with this to encourage the police department to continue to take baby steps -- this sounds to me like paper training a puppy when we are talking about gene-ups -- grown-ups here. the same thing applies with supervisor chiu's legislation. it is not a good piece of legislation. i don't think we should encourage a bad piece of legislation and hopes that it gets fixed afterwards. i intent to vote no on the motion before us and hope that when this gets to committee or to the supervisors, we can speak to a better process and a better outcome. >> any other questions? call the role, please? >> calling role on the motion

with recommendation. role call made. >> thank you very much. >> next item, item 6, update from the odd hockey committee regarding permit conditions relating to security proposed by the san francisco police department for all entertainment permits. i would like to make a motion to continue this in that we got a lot of useful input from the public, from the police department, and we are waiting on a review of all these ideas from the city attorney. i was told that the city attorney will be at the next meeting and will give us something in writing in advance. so if it pleases the commission, we can get a motion to continue this? >> so moved. >> second. >> call the role?

discussion? no? ok. >> had is the motion to continue. >> aye, i have, aye, aye, aye, aye. >> before we go to the next item, if anybody came here to address this issue and would like to say something this evening, i don't want to disregard your input at this time if you wanted to give it, or if you want to wait until the next meeting. sorry for the screw-up, that -- but that is city government. item number 7, police department comments and questions. >> good evening, commission ergs and staff. i am from the central police station. kind of going over the last

couple of weeks, very active, as you can imagine, with the giants going into the world series. they had a lot of activity at the bars but relatively little activity in the entertainment venues. so the sports bars where they don't have the entertainment were real busy and had a lot of activity. but looking at the reports coming through with entertainment controls establishments, very little. i talked to the inspector as far as being out on halloween, he said broadway got active about 12:00. it got kind of ugly, but outside the establishments for the most part. the saturday prior, a lot of the venues had halloween on saturday night. a significant number of persons , vehicles, calls for service.

heavy pedestrian traffic. no major incidents. two drunks in public arrest. one cited for fighting, several disturbances. a list of different fights. broadway and columbus. kearneyy and pacific. but nothing inside an establishment. i like what we are seeing. the establishments are stepping up and managing the grooms. looking at the fights, sometimes they could be people that are in the area that aren't going into the clubs. oftentimes we see people that aren't up for the dress code. they are specifically hanging out in the area not going into the places. but we have kind of branded the whole area. i just want to make that distinction. as far as the entertainment commission, under the jurisdiction, for the saturday, there were two incidents, both

at the st. francis hotel. they had a very large venue, up to 2,000 people, and they had two batteries there late in the night. other than that, for the weekend not much was going on. working with someone regarding an establishment that doesn't have an e.c. permit, we got a report that there was a fight there. we are looking into that. i'm not going to go into the location. after we deal with it, then we will make that. any comments or questions? >> i have one question. >> all right. >> when he writes the citation, if it is in your district, does he inform you of that, or is there any kind of communication that takes place between you and the police department? >> he is very good at communicating. he is either faxing me things or making a direct phone call for me. it is extremely helpful to work with the staff. >> cool.

>> ok. thank you. any public comment on the police report? next item, commissioners comments and questions. >> just me. i attended the police swearing-in ceremony today. a couple of friends got promoted, and it was a very moving ceremony, and it was dedicated to alex, bagen, the former police chief who died suddenly of a heart attack. i wanted to tell you all that, that that happened today. >> thank you. my only comment is to welcome commissioner benetti to the commission. we look forward to working with you and all your insight from

the industry. new business, requests for future agenda items. commissioners meko? >> i would like to ask that we jendize a closed session to discuss the appointment process for a few director. >> ok. i think that is something we can do in the future. >> i don't believe this is going to be an agenda item but if we determine larry on that we want to -- later on that we want to add metal detectors. >> for me? >> i don't know. this is my first day. >> no doubt for me. the code empowers the staff or the executive director to impose conditions via orders like i gave you a copy of. i think you would have to find

grounds, of course, to reopen the issue, just like we have to have grounds to do suspensions. i need grounds to impose additional conditions. but if you felt there were grounds -- >> security plan conditions. >> right. there are conditions on the permit via the security plan. they are there hour -- however they get there. but yes, you would communicate with the executive director process-wise. is that the answer you were looking for? >> i just want to applaud your efforts in taking the initial steps to get those enhanced conditions taken care of right away. i think that is great. but with a club like this, there has been an incident in the club with a gun inside, that leads me to believe that was not the first time a gun

was in that club, but the first time it was used. i am not confident this is going to be handled correctly. >> all right. >> if there are no other requests, this concludes the tuesday, november 9th meeting of the entertainment commission. thank you for coming.