i understand in the city, some of those issues would be covers. the other issues were basically maintenance. they were not inspecting them correctly. so what are we doing to make sure the main cables and all the other cables we have are being maintained and are looking at how we monitor them? are you looking into that as well? can pg&e speak to that? >> we have agreed that whatever it takes to fulfil the board and the mayor's request on this, we will do to ensure the correct -- safety of our public. also, to increase reliability to the customer. to your first question, while we are just beginning to look at the gas, i think we are submitting to you that we will

do this long term. i have been doing the electric side of it for about a year and a half. there have been more incidences that have occurred. i think we need to continue to develop an increased awareness with pg&e and high-level cooperation to cover a complicated system. >> is this all being written down? if you are gone, will someone know this is what they're supposed to do? especially on the gas side. and what are we doing about the main lines and how they are inspecting those? have we looked at all the inspecting procedures? >> for the electric and gas side, the chief and i will be documenting everything so that anyone can slip into our position to know what had gone on. also, collecting other information that would be pertinent to that. with respect to the gas

transmissions, those were the initial question we had after san bruno. i know the chief and i would agree -- we know that there is less pressure because we are at the end of the line, but there is still pressure in those gas lines, so we are paying attention to that. we are working closely with congressman spears to understand the standard and where are our automatic shutoff valves in case we have to make those decisions with pg&e about some incident? >> my understanding is we do not have automatic shutoff valves. >> we do not, but that does not mean we will not. it is our due diligence to recommend to you and the city what we should be doing, in light of incidents. at the same time, those lines were immediately inspected. we would like more periodic

inspection that will be reported to us. >> what kind of inspections? you said they looked at the transformers. maybe these are questions for pg&e. thank you. supervisor chiu: thank you, mr. lee. at this time, if we could ask the representatives from pg&e, i know my colleagues have a lot of questions. do you have an initial presentation you would like to make? >> no, we're here to answer questions. i am the vice-president of gas operations. supervisor chiu: i will start off with some questions. with the standard no tragedy, what steps -- sambar no tragedy, what steps are you insuring --san bruno san bruno ,

what steps are you taking to ensure the safety of your customers? >> first, we reduced the operating pressure in those systems. in the city of san francisco, the pressure had already been regulated. the city and county received pressure from the gas transmission lines at a much lower level. as mentioned earlier, we also immediately did a leak survey of the entire system all the way through the city of san francisco and through gas transmission lines. there was no evidence of any gas leaks in the system. supervisor chiu: supervisor maxwell asked the question about shutoff valves. at this time, are you looking at replacing some of your manual

shut off valves with automatic ones? >> week issued a report with this cpc -- we issued a report with the cpuc to see whether or not we should have automatic or remote wells. we will be looking at those to determine if we need to do something differently. we will continue to work with the cpuc on that issue. supervisor chiu: what is the cost? >> we are not quite clear yet, but it could be anywhere between $100,000 to $1 million, depending on what needs to be done. is their power, telecommunications nearby. is there a location in the street where we can place the actuator? it demands -- it depends on

about itself and where it is going to. supervisor chiu: assuming this is approved by the cpuc, is that part of the cost of repairs? >> it is hard to determine how many ballots the repair would be, the repair structure for that. supervisor chiu: mr. lee talked about the explosion we have seen, particularly in the northeast part of the city. you talked about those incidences and what is your prognosis on monday can do to ensure they never happen again? >> if you are referring to the electric side, i will turn it over to ken. >> we are pushing the heavy diagnostic of our cable. we have the ability now to look at the diagnostics and look forward spots in the cables themselves. that is what we're currently working on now so that we can

validate the integrity of the cables coming into the city. as well as those coming through the network. supervisor chiu: how come that had not been done before? >> just the timing of the technology and diagnostics. the attack -- the actual integrity of the cable itself, those are new diagnostics that we are starting to do now. supervisor chiu: supervisor mirkarimi? supervisor mirkarimi: let's start on the gas side. very much appreciate your answers to our questions. we realize your goal is our goal, that you want to fortified those concerns about safety to the utmost ability. we get that. leading up to the explosion in san bruno, what is added to a lot of the concern and

dramatization around it is the fact that people have said they had called in for weeks about the smell of gas, and that that is added to the concern about how a municipality like ours, as well as a utility like yours, is able to take those concerns more seriously so there is not a potential repeat of what happened with the san bruno customers? >> if i could speak to that incident, we got reports in the media that there had been a cause of gas leaks. pg&e has reviewed its records. calls are recorded coming into the call center unless the caller opts out of it. we have reviewed those phone calls back to july 1 and there were no calls in that area. we did get two calls discussing voters around the neighborhood,

from the out skirting areas. in terms of what was in that general area there were no leaks reported or found. we have also reached out to the city of san brno who has reported that they have received no calls for complaints. we have also asked people in the public, if they have any information that we are missing, to please come forward. supervisor mirkarimi: is it or is it not true that the pipeline in san bruno -- and the question was relevant. before you got here we were asking about the ratings of any pipelines or areas that warrant some level of attention. was it determined that that

pipeline was slated for in need of high risk repairs, but then those repairs were delayed? >> the section we are referencing is glenview. there was no recommendation or any note that they needed issues out at that pipeline. the pipeline runs through the city, so 132 could have worked down somewhere along the system, but in san bruno, no work in that location. supervisor mirkarimi: as it relates to san francisco's infrastructure, what can we take away about any level of concern, matter of attention that needs to be applied so that we are prophylactic we dealing with any potential problems? >> as i mentioned, the city has

three lines that feed into the city. they operate at a much lower pressure although they do have pressure. they operate at 145 pounds. they do not have the same stresses in terms of pipeline stresses. for the city of san francisco the primary concern we have is third-party diggings. contractor dig into the pipeline because the city has a great deal of activity around the city at all times. that is our primary concern for the gas system at large. mr. lee mentioned earlier we reached out to the contractors and escalators in the area. pg&e also reached out to the entire peninsula and is putting out additional as for what we call 811, call before you did. we believe that is the biggest risk to san francisco. we appreciate working with the

city and fire chief on eliminating that risk altogether. supervisor mirkarimi: you are likely to take this sensitivity, but try not to, but when you go before the cpuc on rate hikes for capital repairs, this is what i was asking the city, for us to be able to zero in on what we can expect of pg&e when they are certainly trying to obligate the condition of money going for repairs. how does pg&e recommend that we call on the same page, that that money is well spent and well applied? >> that is a very good issue that has been raised a couple of times in the last few months. the cpuc is leading that effort so that we can see what work was done.

what is important to know is they do a rate case filing. we are putting forth what we believe needs to be done, the type of work that needs to be done two years in advance of that rate case starting. in many cases, you try to forecast years three, four, five years out. we are doing our best estimate as to what kind of work needs to be done. there are no earmarks in a rate case, per say. there is an amount of money dedicated to a certain project unless it is specifically called out. in terms of minutes on a gas transmission system, pg&e is authorized a certain amount of change in its system and we have the obligation to utilize that money to the best purposes available to us. so our priorities will be changing as things change brought der. there is an e marking of that money for specific items but we

have a responsibility now to report back to the cpuc. supervisor mirkarimi: it makes sense to me as to the question of discretion, competing for their attention, but back to the city and county interest of san francisco, what can pg&e do to improve that communication so that if a repair that we are expecting or anticipate needs to be addressed, that that will actually happen in a way that is timely and effective? >> i can assure you if there is a safety issue identified on the pipeline, it is taking care of immediately. if there were to be a leak, pg&e will immediately take action going about making that repair. we will not wait for anything in terms of public safety activity. in terms of maintenance to the gas transmission system, the gas transmission is already heavily

regulated both at the california level and by general order 112e and at the federal level. that dictates how often you do patrols, how often you check for activity. i think we can, with clarity, share with the city and fire chief and others interested, exactly what is taking place in the city of san francisco, in terms of our amendments practices. supervisor mirkarimi: perhaps i can talk to the electrical side. i am aware of general order 112 heat as it prepared -- pertains to the cast aside. would you say from the electrical side at that level of coordination and regulation is in place for the electrical infrastructure? would you say we need a general order as stringent as 112? >> i do not know all the basis

of 112, but what is on the electrical side, we believe we have good programs in place from a man's perspective, diagnostics perspective on the electric side. supervisor mirkarimi: i wanted to identify some more consumer interest issues that we have pulled up from cpuc about what city representatives have incurred as best practice, but we wanted to see what can pg&e provide as a level of excellence, get in comparison with other utility companies on some levels our record is inferior to there's. >> we met with them the a little over a year ago to start to look at things that we can improve. specifically, working with local

manufacturers to change those designs. we are going even further with that. we have diagnostics on the actual transformer's themselves so we can check for oil pressure temperatures, we can look inside the transformers, and those sorts of things. from a cable diagnostics point of view, we are looking at a cable dynastic program to be able to proactively look at the integrity of our cables rather than from a reactive perspective. we also had a number of feed within the city that has now been the energized. we have local devices at hotels, different buildings that required the sea to minimize the exposure to our system. we have eliminated a tremendous amount of d.c. cable in the city today. supervisor mirkarimi: information that we have been

able to obtain from state records and consumer advocacy organizations, we have noticed there has been a decrease reduction in field staffing levels both on the gas and electrical side in the city and county of san francisco and in the south bay, too. we were trying to understand our but of how you deploy field staffing levels on the gas and electric side. mind you, i only have limited information. >> i do not have the information to answer that in detail. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you supervisor chiu:. supervisor maxwell? >> on the gas side, why are we at 145 pounds? >> that is the pressure that is needed for the city of san francisco to operate and maintain the pressure of the distribution system to feed all

customers in the city. leading into the city, it comes in at 145 pounds. it is further reduced to 65 lb before it goes through the distribution system and that is fed throughout the city. there is no need for additional pressure in the city, so therefore, we keep bit lower than absolutely necessary. >> why is it necessary for san bruno? >> the system that runs through feeds the entire peninsula. in order to get the appropriate level of pressure to everybody in the peninsula requires 375 pounds on a cold day to make sure that we can meet all those needs. that is not required for the city. >> because we are at the end of the peninsula, that does -- does that have something to do with it?

>> yes, in terms of ensuring we can feed the city of san francisco, we can figure out exactly what we need and we can adjust the pressure higher or lower. >> how often do you review your maintenance procedures? you say that they were highly regulated. how often are those procedures looked into and reviewed? >> i do not know that i can speak directly to how often the federal government does it but there are. changes made at the federal level and on a state level. there are significant changes going on all the time and minor changes color on all the time. things are changing constantly. as a change, preferences for change, so therefore, pg&e standards act change. >> just like we did with transformers, you found that there were probably things that

you could do better. are you doing the same thing with gas? >> after the san bruno incident it is important to recognize we still do not know the root cause of that issue. as we look at what we can do to make our transition system safer, we have instituted what we call pipeline 20/20. that is a look at all of our infrastructure, what we need to do to modernize that system, remote control and automatic valves, working with first responders to make sure we are efficient and that they have all the equipment they need to operate safely. also in all of our work practices, lastly, we started in nonprofit to fund the next generation of technology. all of our indications were that things were fine down there. that should not have happened, it cannot happen again. we believe we need to jump-start

the technology review of what else can be done to check the integrity of gas systems. that is one of our key points. >> so after this incident, things are different? that you will make sure changes will be made so that it is not the same identical system? >> pipeline 2020 is six -- expected to make changes to the system as we work with key stakeholders. once we figure out and the ntsb understand what happened to the pipeline, i expect to see changes accordingly. there will be ongoing changes to the transmission system. >> but you are moving prior to that? >> yes, as we speak. >> what devices are you using in hotels when you replace d.c.? >> we have something called a

rectifier. that will take the power from the sidewalk and then deliver it to the hotel. >> so you just added rectifiers. >> yes. >> does not seem like a simple solution? >> yes, it was. >supervisor mirkarimi: a question on the gas side. on the pipeline 2020, this non- profit, is it a third party non- profit, a nonprofit that is a pg&e affiliation? >> it is a non-profit headed by members of the board. it will be separated from pg&e. supervisor mirkarimi: i also read about a nonprofit and that maybe it enhances complement's,

mirrors gas technology institutes? what does that speak to? >> but i cannot speak to what that is. there are other working groups, nonprofits that are looking at different components of the pipeline including integrity, new business tools. some are gas, transmission, oil, some are not. our job is to look forward to next generation of tools. while there is a lot going on with this generation of tools including direct assessment, using different types of pigs -- as their reference to in our world -- we are looking at what we can do to jump-start into the next generation of tools. supervisor mirkarimi: you are referring to that robotic greater than is looking for breaches in the infrastructure radar? >> yes, they are pieces of

equipment looking for leaks. every pig is different depending on when you're looking for. supervisor mirkarimi: the reason i am asking, it is not too uncommon to have nonprofits that are not of competing interests. less partisanship and the nonprofit world on these questions, one that is focused strictly on public safety and making sure all the right materials are being effectively applied. i assume that is the quest of pipeline 2020? >> yes, that is correct. it is all about the integrity of the system. supervisor mirkarimi: i did not hear this, as it relates to san francisco, steel versus plastic? >> in today's world, plastic is used for distribution systems

which generally operate at 60 pounds or less. steel is used at higher pressure than 60 pounds. that is generally how we would build the system today. obviously, before the coming of plastics in the 1970's, steel was used in the distribution side. supervisor mirkarimi: in san francisco's landscape, do we have an idea what is still versus plastic in the pipeline infrastructure? >> i can look and see what the data would tell us. in terms of the transmission system, it is all steel. it operates at 145 pounds. then we would have to look at the distribution system. at that is changed out, we would generally be replacing steel with plastic. supervisor mirkarimi: and the mileage of what those steel

pipes might be in san francisco, do we have an approximation? >> i do not have that information. we can certainly generate how many miles of information i find we have across the city, distribution. it is important to note distribution is in every street. so the mileage is very similar to the mileage of the streets in the city. supervisor mirkarimi: the general idea is that plastic pipes are less exposed to corrosion? >> yes, it is certainly the standard going forward in terms of what you put in the ground. supervisor mirkarimi: is there any request before the cpuc, any plan pg&e may have to replace the steel pipes in the city with plastic? >> in terms of replacing the distribution system, there is a program overseen by the cpuc.

i do not have the specifics in front of me but the information is readily available. it is not necessarily focused on steel. steel is not the problem. if it is coded correctly and corrosion is mitigated properly, there are not too many issues with steel. we do not focus necessarily on changing steel out with plastic, but we focus on those pipeline that need to be replaced on the distribution side and modernizing those. oftentimes, we end up replacing them with plastic. supervisor mirkarimi: we understand the san bruno 5 was 50 years old. my understanding is on a steel piping, the life span durability might be about 50 years or so? >> if i had to estimate the life span of a pipeline, i would say it depends on the control of the

environment in. i have dug up many pieces of pipeline that are 70 years old and a brand new. if they are properly maintained, if they are in a good environment, if the coatings were installed correctly from the manufacturer, they can last a very long time. 70 years to 80 years is not unheard of. the pipelines' we're putting today in the ground, people expect them to last over 100 years. supervisor mirkarimi: we have more you need concerns because of the potential for liquefaction, vulnerability to earthquakes, other unpredictable concerns. instead of waiting on a 60-year rotation, would it not be needed for us to look at the conversion from steel to plastic? >> it may be appropriate to look at t