manhole covers, as was also mentioned earlier, there is another best practice that we have uncovered. we have requested, demanded pg&e to look at all of the manhole covers in the downtown area where we have historically had larger transformer networks. at times, these covers have been very dangerous, as you can realize. there is a new kind of cover that we have been able to identify, called a swivel lock, which can lock itself but still allow gas to escape. the manhole covers have to be designed in such a way so that gas can escape so that it will not build up. if there is an explosion of any sort, they ought to be let --

locked in tight enough so that they do not become a danger to the public. some of these old metal covers have been compromised not only with age but also with the heavy traffic, the articulate and buses that run downtown, the heavy machinery and equipment running on those roads. as these manholes have been compromised, they can slip out easily. this swivel lock technology, which i think a state-of-the- art, we are demanding that pg&e take a look at that and replace all of the old manhole covers. they can give you an update on that. i would say, my conclusion to date, it is still a delicate system when you are brave and electricity to run our neighborhood. it caps challenges in undergrounding as well as

overhead transformers that have exploded because of moisture, age, because of the elements. we are continuing to look at those as well because they can be just as dangerous to our public. we have requested not only that they use the infrared inspection process for the underground transfer of service but also for the overhead to make sure they are not compromised together with that. so with that, i can follow up with a written report. that concludes our previous data gathering that we had done in our meetings. i am here to answer any questions you might have. supervisor chiu: we have a couple of questions from colleagues. supervisor mirkarimi: another incident that i do not think he mentioned what happened earlier this year was in my district. there was a dramatic incidents,

whether through a transformer or whatever the implosion, explosion was, it created quite a scare for a number of constituents residing between districts 5 and 2. the aftermath was where we heard most of the complaints, the debris that had been left behind. i know there have been wrangling with the city between pg&e, over who would do with the debris. so it is not just the actual incident itself, but the cleanup was not well handled. just looking to the larger perspective, in terms of making sure there is strong follow up. in terms of best practices, i wanted to look at numbers that we got from the cbc -- cpuc.

in 2006 the average begin the customer had twice as many hours without power as southern california edison customers and four times as san diego gas and electric. as you just enumerated, there have been a number of dangers explosions, manhole covers, and other. based on the best practice, that you put forward, best practices against what? what is the standard that we are measuring our expectations to pg&e? >> i am not sure if there is a national standard that is set by all the large cities.

i think we are trying to reduce the numbers significantly, so we are proceeding on a progressive look at what we can do in our city to make sure it is the safest as possible. i do not know what that national standard is. i do not know that there is a city with no outages. what is example? it is up to us to determine that and to also petition the cpuc for that particular acceptability. >> if i could suggest one, -- supervisor mirkarimi: if i could suggest one, we should be as honest as possible in comparisons to all utility companies in the state of california, that being one standard, and that we listed comparisons between those italic and fees -- utility companies

that are privately held to those that are publicly held. then let's have some digram to show what is our safety record compared to those other utilities. even to the private talley companies in california. pg&e seems to have a problem with its service customer area. i am wondering what the best practice standard is that we should try to aspire to. >> i agree with you. that is what i meant by referring to the commission's data and what can and should be the standard for most states, and we should try to better that. supervisor mirkarimi: pg&e typically goes to the cpc for its permission to advance rate hike hearings requests so that it can attend to a number of capital improvements, which is

par for the course. who, in city and county's jurisdiction of san francisco are we to make sure that what is being requested by the cpuc for rate hike dollars in order to repair, that we monitor that those repairs are actually being done? is it sfpuc, the chief administrative office, the fire department? i want to zero in on the conversation we are having about this rapport with pg&e. in actuality, dollars are being expended, consumer repair dollars are being spent for those repairs. i want to focus in on what nexus

exists for us in determining whether or not those more pronounced repairs are being done. i am not aware of any system, so if that could be part of the conversations you are having with pg&e, i think it would be wise for san francisco to devise such a system. >> i do not think there is a singular agency that has been assigned that task to oversee and injure the monitoring of the cpc proceedings, pg&e's request, and whether the program they have submitted are adequately follow up. our office would be glad to work with several of the city agency that will be key to that. i can think in my own head who would be necessary to have that information, but we would be willing to consider working with agencies that do so. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you,

mr. lee. supervisor chiu: supervisor maxwell? >> so i am to understand the gas side and everything else you mentioned to us is relatively new? these are things you entered into after the explosions? is there a process in place then for this to be on going? have we reviewed anything else that we need to be for something else happens? my concern is with the three main cables coming in. maybe pg&e can speak to this. i understand in the city, some of those issues would be covers. the other issues were basically maintenance. they were not inspecting them correctly. so what are we doing to make sure the main cables and all the

other cables we have are being maintained and are looking at how we monitor them? are you looking into that as well? can pg&e speak to that? >> we have agreed that whatever it takes to fulfil the board and the mayor's request on this, we will do to ensure the correct -- safety of our public. also, to increase reliability to the customer. to your first question, while we are just beginning to look at the gas, i think we are submitting to you that we will do this long term. i have been doing the electric side of it for about a year and a half. there have been more incidences that have occurred. i think we need to continue to develop an increased awareness with pg&e and high-level cooperation to cover a complicated system. >> is this all being written

down? if you are gone, will someone know this is what they're supposed to do? especially on the gas side. and what are we doing about the main lines and how they are inspecting those? have we looked at all the inspecting procedures? >> for the electric and gas side, the chief and i will be documenting everything so that anyone can slip into our position to know what had gone on. also, collecting other information that would be pertinent to that. with respect to the gas transmissions, those were the initial question we had after san bruno. i know the chief and i would agree -- we know that there is less pressure because we are at the end of the line, but there is still pressure in those gas lines, so we are paying attention to that. we are working closely with

congressman spears to understand the standard and where are our automatic shutoff valves in case we have to make those decisions with pg&e about some incident? >> my understanding is we do not have automatic shutoff valves. >> we do not, but that does not mean we will not. it is our due diligence to recommend to you and the city what we should be doing, in light of incidents. at the same time, those lines were immediately inspected. we would like more periodic inspection that will be reported to us. >> what kind of inspections? you said they looked at the transformers. maybe these are questions for pg&e. thank you. supervisor chiu: thank you, mr. lee. at this time, if we could ask

the representatives from pg&e, i know my colleagues have a lot of questions. do you have an initial presentation you would like to make? >> no, we're here to answer questions. i am the vice-president of gas operations. supervisor chiu: i will start off with some questions. with the standard no tragedy, what steps -- sambar no tragedy, what steps are you insuring --san bruno san bruno , what steps are you taking to ensure the safety of your customers? >> first, we reduced the operating pressure in those systems. in the city of san francisco, the pressure had already been regulated.

the city and county received pressure from the gas transmission lines at a much lower level. as mentioned earlier, we also immediately did a leak survey of the entire system all the way through the city of san francisco and through gas transmission lines. there was no evidence of any gas leaks in the system. supervisor chiu: supervisor maxwell asked the question about shutoff valves. at this time, are you looking at replacing some of your manual shut off valves with automatic ones? >> week issued a report with this cpc -- we issued a report with the cpuc to see whether or not we should have automatic or remote wells. we will be looking at those to

determine if we need to do something differently. we will continue to work with the cpuc on that issue. supervisor chiu: what is the cost? >> we are not quite clear yet, but it could be anywhere between $100,000 to $1 million, depending on what needs to be done. is their power, telecommunications nearby. is there a location in the street where we can place the actuator? it demands -- it depends on about itself and where it is going to. supervisor chiu: assuming this is approved by the cpuc, is that part of the cost of repairs? >> it is hard to determine how many ballots the repair would be, the repair structure for that. supervisor chiu: mr. lee talked

about the explosion we have seen, particularly in the northeast part of the city. you talked about those incidences and what is your prognosis on monday can do to ensure they never happen again? >> if you are referring to the electric side, i will turn it over to ken. >> we are pushing the heavy diagnostic of our cable. we have the ability now to look at the diagnostics and look forward spots in the cables themselves. that is what we're currently working on now so that we can validate the integrity of the cables coming into the city. as well as those coming through the network. supervisor chiu: how come that had not been done before? >> just the timing of the technology and diagnostics. the attack -- the actual

integrity of the cable itself, those are new diagnostics that we are starting to do now. supervisor chiu: supervisor mirkarimi? supervisor mirkarimi: let's start on the gas side. very much appreciate your answers to our questions. we realize your goal is our goal, that you want to fortified those concerns about safety to the utmost ability. we get that. leading up to the explosion in san bruno, what is added to a lot of the concern and dramatization around it is the fact that people have said they had called in for weeks about the smell of gas, and that that is added to the concern about how a municipality like ours, as well as a utility like yours, is

able to take those concerns more seriously so there is not a potential repeat of what happened with the san bruno customers? >> if i could speak to that incident, we got reports in the media that there had been a cause of gas leaks. pg&e has reviewed its records. calls are recorded coming into the call center unless the caller opts out of it. we have reviewed those phone calls back to july 1 and there were no calls in that area. we did get two calls discussing voters around the neighborhood, from the out skirting areas. in terms of what was in that general area there were no leaks reported or found. we have also reached out to the city of san brno who has reported that they have received no calls for complaints. we have also asked people in the

public, if they have any information that we are missing, to please come forward. supervisor mirkarimi: is it or is it not true that the pipeline in san bruno -- and the question was relevant. before you got here we were asking about the ratings of any pipelines or areas that warrant some level of attention. was it determined that that pipeline was slated for in need of high risk repairs, but then those repairs were delayed? >> the section we are referencing is glenview. there was no recommendation or any note that they needed issues

out at that pipeline. the pipeline runs through the city, so 132 could have worked down somewhere along the system, but in san bruno, no work in that location. supervisor mirkarimi: as it relates to san francisco's infrastructure, what can we take away about any level of concern, matter of attention that needs to be applied so that we are prophylactic we dealing with any potential problems? >> as i mentioned, the city has three lines that feed into the city. they operate at a much lower pressure although they do have pressure. they operate at 145 pounds. they do not have the same stresses in terms of pipeline stresses. for the city of san francisco

the primary concern we have is third-party diggings. contractor dig into the pipeline because the city has a great deal of activity around the city at all times. that is our primary concern for the gas system at large. mr. lee mentioned earlier we reached out to the contractors and escalators in the area. pg&e also reached out to the entire peninsula and is putting out additional as for what we call 811, call before you did. we believe that is the biggest risk to san francisco. we appreciate working with the city and fire chief on eliminating that risk altogether. supervisor mirkarimi: you are likely to take this sensitivity, but try not to, but when you go before the cpuc on rate hikes for capital repairs, this is what i was asking the city, for us to be able to zero in on what

we can expect of pg&e when they are certainly trying to obligate the condition of money going for repairs. how does pg&e recommend that we call on the same page, that that money is well spent and well applied? >> that is a very good issue that has been raised a couple of times in the last few months. the cpuc is leading that effort so that we can see what work was done. what is important to know is they do a rate case filing. we are putting forth what we believe needs to be done, the type of work that needs to be done two years in advance of that rate case starting. in many cases, you try to forecast years three, four, five

years out. we are doing our best estimate as to what kind of work needs to be done. there are no earmarks in a rate case, per say. there is an amount of money dedicated to a certain project unless it is specifically called out. in terms of minutes on a gas transmission system, pg&e is authorized a certain amount of change in its system and we have the obligation to utilize that money to the best purposes available to us. so our priorities will be changing as things change brought der. there is an e marking of that money for specific items but we have a responsibility now to report back to the cpuc. supervisor mirkarimi: it makes sense to me as to the question of discretion, competing for their attention, but back to the city and county interest of san francisco, what can pg&e do to improve that communication so

that if a repair that we are expecting or anticipate needs to be addressed, that that will actually happen in a way that is timely and effective? >> i can assure you if there is a safety issue identified on the pipeline, it is taking care of immediately. if there were to be a leak, pg&e will immediately take action going about making that repair. we will not wait for anything in terms of public safety activity. in terms of maintenance to the gas transmission system, the gas transmission is already heavily regulated both at the california level and by general order 112e and at the federal level. that dictates how often you do patrols, how often you check for activity. i think we can, with clarity, share with the city and fire chief and others interested,

exactly what is taking place in the city of san francisco, in terms of our amendments practices. supervisor mirkarimi: perhaps i can talk to the electrical side. i am aware of general order 112 heat as it prepared -- pertains to the cast aside. would you say from the electrical side at that level of coordination and regulation is in place for the electrical infrastructure? would you say we need a general order as stringent as 112? >> i do not know all the basis of 112, but what is on the electrical side, we believe we have good programs in place from a man's perspective, diagnostics perspective on the electric side. supervisor mirkarimi: i wanted to identify some more consumer interest issues that we have pulled up from cpuc about what

city representatives have incurred as best practice, but we wanted to see what can pg&e provide as a level of excellence, get in comparison with other utility companies on some levels our record is inferior to there's. >> we met with them the a little over a year ago to start to look at things that we can improve. specifically, working with local manufacturers to change those designs. we are going even further with that. we have diagnostics on the actual transformer's themselves so we can check for oil pressure temperatures, we can look inside the transformers, and those sorts of things. from a cable diagnostics point

of view, we are looking at a cable dynastic program to be able to proactively look at the integrity of our cables rather than from a reactive perspective. we also had a number of feed within the city that has now been the energized. we have local devices at hotels, different buildings that required the sea to minimize the exposure to our system. we have eliminated a tremendous amount of d.c. cable in the city today. supervisor mirkarimi: information that we have been able to obtain from state records and consumer advocacy organizations, we have noticed there has been a decrease reduction in field staffing levels both on the gas and electrical side in the city and county of san francisco and in the south bay, too.

we were trying to understand our but of how you deploy field staffing levels on the gas and electric side. mind you, i only have limited information. >> i do not have the information to answer that in detail. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you supervisor chiu:. supervisor maxwell? >> on the gas side, why are we at 145 pounds? >> that is the pressure that is needed for the city of san francisco to operate and maintain the pressure of the distribution system to feed all customers in the city. leading into the city, it comes in at 145 pounds. it is further reduced to 65 lb before it goes through the distribution system and that is fed throughout the city. there is no need for additional pressure in the city, so therefore, we keep bit lower than absolutely necessary.

>> why is it necessary for san bruno? >> the system that runs through feeds the entire peninsula. in order to get the appropriate level of pressure to everybody in the peninsula requires 375 pounds on a cold day to make sure that we can meet all those needs. that is not required for the city. >> because we are at the end of the peninsula, that does -- does that have something to do with it? >> yes, in terms of ensuring we can feed the city of san francisco, we can figure out exactly what we need and we can adjust the pressure higher or lower. >> how often do you review your maintenance procedures? you say that they h