how often are those procedures looked into and reviewed? >> i do not know that i can speak directly to how often the federal government does it but there are. changes made at the federal level and on a state level. there are significant changes going on all the time and minor changes color on all the time. things are changing constantly. as a change, preferences for change, so therefore, pg&e standards act change. >> just like we did with transformers, you found that there were probably things that you could do better. are you doing the same thing with gas? >> after the san bruno incident it is important to recognize we still do not know the root cause of that issue. as we look at what we can do to make our transition system safer, we have instituted what we call pipeline 20/20.

that is a look at all of our infrastructure, what we need to do to modernize that system, remote control and automatic valves, working with first responders to make sure we are efficient and that they have all the equipment they need to operate safely. also in all of our work practices, lastly, we started in nonprofit to fund the next generation of technology. all of our indications were that things were fine down there. that should not have happened, it cannot happen again. we believe we need to jump-start the technology review of what else can be done to check the integrity of gas systems. that is one of our key points. >> so after this incident, things are different? that you will make sure changes will be made so that it is not the same identical system?

>> pipeline 2020 is six -- expected to make changes to the system as we work with key stakeholders. once we figure out and the ntsb understand what happened to the pipeline, i expect to see changes accordingly. there will be ongoing changes to the transmission system. >> but you are moving prior to that? >> yes, as we speak. >> what devices are you using in hotels when you replace d.c.? >> we have something called a rectifier. that will take the power from the sidewalk and then deliver it to the hotel. >> so you just added rectifiers. >> yes. >> does not seem like a simple solution? >> yes, it was. >supervisor mirkarimi: a

question on the gas side. on the pipeline 2020, this non- profit, is it a third party non- profit, a nonprofit that is a pg&e affiliation? >> it is a non-profit headed by members of the board. it will be separated from pg&e. supervisor mirkarimi: i also read about a nonprofit and that maybe it enhances complement's, mirrors gas technology institutes? what does that speak to? >> but i cannot speak to what that is. there are other working groups, nonprofits that are looking at different components of the pipeline including integrity, new business tools.

some are gas, transmission, oil, some are not. our job is to look forward to next generation of tools. while there is a lot going on with this generation of tools including direct assessment, using different types of pigs -- as their reference to in our world -- we are looking at what we can do to jump-start into the next generation of tools. supervisor mirkarimi: you are referring to that robotic greater than is looking for breaches in the infrastructure radar? >> yes, they are pieces of equipment looking for leaks. every pig is different depending on when you're looking for. supervisor mirkarimi: the reason i am asking, it is not too

uncommon to have nonprofits that are not of competing interests. less partisanship and the nonprofit world on these questions, one that is focused strictly on public safety and making sure all the right materials are being effectively applied. i assume that is the quest of pipeline 2020? >> yes, that is correct. it is all about the integrity of the system. supervisor mirkarimi: i did not hear this, as it relates to san francisco, steel versus plastic? >> in today's world, plastic is used for distribution systems which generally operate at 60 pounds or less. steel is used at higher pressure than 60 pounds. that is generally how we would build the system today. obviously, before the coming of plastics in the 1970's, steel was used in the distribution side. supervisor mirkarimi: in san

francisco's landscape, do we have an idea what is still versus plastic in the pipeline infrastructure? >> i can look and see what the data would tell us. in terms of the transmission system, it is all steel. it operates at 145 pounds. then we would have to look at the distribution system. at that is changed out, we would generally be replacing steel with plastic. supervisor mirkarimi: and the mileage of what those steel pipes might be in san francisco, do we have an approximation? >> i do not have that information. we can certainly generate how many miles of information i find we have across the city, distribution. it is important to note distribution is in every street. so the mileage is very similar to the mileage of the streets in

the city. supervisor mirkarimi: the general idea is that plastic pipes are less exposed to corrosion? >> yes, it is certainly the standard going forward in terms of what you put in the ground. supervisor mirkarimi: is there any request before the cpuc, any plan pg&e may have to replace the steel pipes in the city with plastic? >> in terms of replacing the distribution system, there is a program overseen by the cpuc. i do not have the specifics in front of me but the information is readily available. it is not necessarily focused on steel. steel is not the problem. if it is coded correctly and corrosion is mitigated properly, there are not too many issues with steel. we do not focus necessarily on

changing steel out with plastic, but we focus on those pipeline that need to be replaced on the distribution side and modernizing those. oftentimes, we end up replacing them with plastic. supervisor mirkarimi: we understand the san bruno 5 was 50 years old. my understanding is on a steel piping, the life span durability might be about 50 years or so? >> if i had to estimate the life span of a pipeline, i would say it depends on the control of the environment in. i have dug up many pieces of pipeline that are 70 years old and a brand new. if they are properly maintained, if they are in a good environment, if the coatings were installed correctly from the manufacturer, they can last a very long time. 70 years to 80 years is not

unheard of. the pipelines' we're putting today in the ground, people expect them to last over 100 years. supervisor mirkarimi: we have more you need concerns because of the potential for liquefaction, vulnerability to earthquakes, other unpredictable concerns. instead of waiting on a 60-year rotation, would it not be needed for us to look at the conversion from steel to plastic? >> it may be appropriate to look at that information. the error that was impacted, for all practical purposes, was rebuilt. on the gas transmission side we do look at all potential earth movement issues, whether it is looked -- look of vacation,

earthquakes, and we can build facilities and trenches to deal with the pipe. supervisor mirkarimi: in any of the question that i ask you, is that proprietary information, information that you will be able to share with us? >> i believe most of what you asked for is public information. we can share with you what has been done with the 1980's in the pipe replacement program. in terms of the mileage, we will get back to you on that. we will try to give you a good indication of how many miles we believe is steel, how many is plastic in the city. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. i look forward to those answers. could i ask one more question to elector? back to the question of staffing that i was asking earlier.

based on what we know, it is my understanding that some electrical overhead crews, there would be 15 to 20 crews stationed at those yards. those numbers have dwindled considerably to several, if not one. when that not be an indication that staffing was significantly reduced? >> i do not have the levels of staffing in front of me so i cannot comment on those questions. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you for trying. supervisor maxwell? >> everything has a shelf life, including plastic. something new comes in and

plastic is not new, but maybe the application is, and maybe everyone thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread. could you talk about that? how long has plastic pipes been used, what is the shelf life? it has been used long enough for us to know something about it. >> plastic has been used in general from the 1970's, where plastic was first installed. we use that term liberally but the ability of plastic to withstand certain environments has gotten better and better. the plastic we are installing today is not the same plastic pipes that we installed in the 1970's. plastic pipes are designed to be in around a long time. i do not think it is realistic to say 50 years to 100 years. the problem with plastic will be if it is exposed to sunlight. that will impact it. there are rules on how you treat

plastic pipes, how long it can be in the sunlight. if it is built and protected properly, plastic and last for a very long time. >> thank you. thank you very much for coming in and answering questions. supervisor chiu: any additional comments or questions? supervisor mirkarimi: we appreciate it. i have a question for mr. ed lee. i think that was an interesting conversation, useful. what is the say process in order to take this information, solidified it to the best defense of the city and people 7 cisco so that we are safeguarded in the most preventive way possible to make sure we can expect nothing but best practices of pg&e?

is this in terms of a mou, legislation, in terms of our franchise agreement? what is it in terms of to ensure there is complete understanding that there will be a certain level of response and that level of response will not be compromised? >> that is a good question. i would say my initial thoughts are that we do live with pg&e as our main power supplier. i think they are probably -- there are probably mechanisms in the agreement with pg&e for their level of service that we could use as an underlying foundation for producing a more specific mou, constant reporting

mechanism, and that we staff it appropriately so that we go beyond just our own leadership individually, that we make it a part of the city's review of our infrastructure. i have a number of ideas right now but i think it could be part of our capital infrastructure plan. i think the foundation is, as you suggest, that it begins with the agreement we have with pg&e to provide service for our city, to work off of that. supervisor mirkarimi: ok. i am sure some of my colleagues would love to participate in any conversation that looks at the inn has been of policy instruments, legal instruments that get us to a level playing field of expectations by

utility so that we are all clear as to what our expectations are. >> i think the chief and i and other department heads that we rely on to work with us can provide this border with recommendations on how to best solidify that effort. supervisor mirkarimi: until there is that a briton level of reciprocity and expectation, our interests will continue to be supportive for pg&e, not that that is what they want, not that i am saying that, but the reality is that could very well be a byproduct of this relationship. >> we have several franchise agreements with the city. certainly, this one is no different than even our franchise with our garbage company. we've always need additional mechanisms to make sure the

utilities are doing what we need to make sure we can lift up the standard of safety for our citizens. supervisor mirkarimi: pg&e has not been amended since 1940. supervisor chiu: colleagues, any final comments? i want to thank all of the city department representatives, a pg&e, for being a part of this important conversation. this is obviously something that we are concerned about, something that we will want to ensure the city is moving in the right direction on. we have a number of public speaker cards. i want to invite up douglas yep and cindy.

each speaker will have two minutes. >> my name is douglas yep. i think holding today's hearing on items three and four are very enlightening. i have one suggestion in regards to this hearing. from my experience in the last five years at city hall, i feel that the audit and oversight committee has done little productive work. i really think these two items should have been assigned to that committee. in my opinion, the chairman is more concerned about happy meals, and items 3 and 4 are a heck of a lot more demanding. i think the audit and oversight committee should be doing a heck of a lot more for the citizens of san francisco in regards to safety and dangerous conditions.

i think that that suggestion should be seriously considered by the full board. i think this committee for having items 3 and 4 today. supervisor chiu: thank you. next speaker? >> thank you, supervisors. we have been representing california consumers for over 35 years. i have been a pg&e customers for 27 years. i just want to commend the board of supervisors for taking this issue on. our lives are literally in pg&e's hands, and that is a scary thought. we do not believe pg&e can police itself, the matter how many nonprofits it forms to look into these issues. they cannot police themselves. we do not believe the public utilities commission is adequately policing pg&e.

we do not believe the ntsb is adequately policing pg&e. one of the biggest concerns about the san bruno explosion is the fact that after a smaller explosion resulted in a fatality in rancho cordova, it is unclear if anything was done with the ntsb recommendations at that time. where is the follow-through? it is not coming from pg&e and is not coming from the public utilities commission, so it is incumbent on the board supervisors to step up and take this issue on. we want to stress safety should be a priority here. we agree it is not necessarily an issue of aging pipelines pier while shut off valves are an important thing, we only need them after we have got a problem, not before. maintenance and safety should come first. this investigation possibly should include checking pg&e's

phone lines as well. we have heard from numerous customers that there were calls about a gas leak. it is incomprehensible as they fled their burning houses they got together to lie about having phone calls. we wonder what happened to the wac -- record of those phone calls. we also look forward to the board of supervisors helping us to follow up on the issue of deferred maintenance. we know that we are spending a fortune on our pg&e bills. as supervisor mirkarimi has pointed out, we do not know what they do with the money. we know they claim they need money for safety and reliability and then spend it elsewhere. i want to applaud the border supervisors for taking this issue on and we would like to help you in any way that we can. supervisor chiu: are there any members of the public that would like to comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. any final comments? supervisor chu?

supervisor chu: thank you to the department for all of your work. to the extent there is relevant information and safety issues that the district supervisor should know about, let me know about those suggestions. supervisor chiu: supervisor mirkarimi? seeing none, public comment is closed. unless we have anything else, i will motion this for a call to the chair. i will look to our department leaders to help update us based helping to update us based on the work they have been doing off line, which we commend you for, but online to answer questions that we could not get to the bottom of that this hearing. supervisor chiu: unless there is objection, we will continue these items at the call of the chair. madam clerk, is there any more business before this committee? >> no, mr. chairman. supervisor chiu: at this time,

the committee is adjourned. thank you for being here.

>> i work with the department of

environment and we are recycling oil. thank you. we can go into a refinery and we can use it again. they do oil changes and sell it anyway, so now they know when a ticket to a. hal>> to you have something you want to get rid of? >> why throw it away when you can reuse it? >> it can be filtered out and used for other products. >> [speaking spanish] >> it is going to be a good

thing for us to take used motor oil from customers. we have a 75-gallon tank that we used and we have someone take it from here to recycle. >> so far, we have 35 people. we have collected 78 gallons, if not more. these are other locations that you can go. it is absolutely free. you just need to have the location open. you are set to go.