under crenshaw and a meeting and doing what we're asking, calling the police, not letting someone in, making a phone call, saying help me move this person away from my front door. because this is not ok. >> that's great. just really quickly, roj, my second question was in the case of el rincon, it is apparent to me as it is i think the rest of this commission, and probably to you, that the owner is not really educated in this business. and she is constantly being either taken advantage of or misinformed by her managers or whatever. do you think in your opinion, this is your opinion, i'm asking for, that some kind of education course should come down the pike for new permitees ? >> yes. >> ok. >> yes, i believe for new permitees, i believe that would be beneficial.

i guess why i hesitated was the -- i think we would really have to be careful and really look at the definition of "new permitees." what is designated, for lack of a better word, credityable experience in the industry. if someone says i was bartender for 10 years, we could say ok, you have enough experience in this business to get this permit. but that really doesn't show they know thousand run a club. >> i'm not saying to get the permit. i'm saying they're entitled to the permits. the permits are by right. but to do some kind of education so that they know, maybe give them a copy -- i don't know. >> i'm all for any education to our permit holders. i think education is a good thing. so absolutely. >> maybe something we can consider for the next summit. thank you. >> commissioner meko. commissioner meko: with regard

to commissioner joseph's point, it just occurred to me this might be of good -- a good role for cmac which, you know, is independent of the commission. but certainly doing a lot of good for the industry. and maybe we could encourage staff to cooperate. and, you know, push as many resources in that direction as possible. you know, since we are so short staffed, i'm not sure we need an entire education component put on top of everything else that you're doing. what i wanted to talk about briefly was the sound ordinance. i know the revisions changed the allowable d.b.a. that's the higher pitched sounds. so that i think it's now eight

decibels above the ambient, the existing zoning in an area. it kind of a limit on -- it's kind of a limit on how much they can continue to pour -- is it wattage -- into the higher pitched noises before people's ears begin to bleed. but where all of the power seems to be going these days is more into the bass waves. and i don't think the sound ordinance addresses that at all. at the moment. i would like to hear from you. is there a discussion or anything written? >> very, very much so. yeah, you're absolutely right. that the current ordinance rarely or barely talks about bass. and one of the things that we've been talking about, working with the noise task force, is exactly that. the bass. >> the c-scale. >> yes. the c-scale is the new revision and adopted into it so we'll be

able to take measurements in a and c which is a huge change. so absolutely, yeah. the bass thing is -- that was one of the biggest things that we as the e.c. staff brought to the table was hey, you got to include bass into this. you can't be left out. which they have embraced fully. so absolutely. commissioner meko: ok. thanks. >> jocelyn, i just might add that in your pursuit of coordinating some type of educational process or interaction between the clubs and the police department, you moot want to check into the monthly -- you might want to check into the monthly meetings they already have at most police stations and might bring the clubs in on that, the permit officers will probably be there. as well as members of the public. and you can address the issues there and it's already agendaized and scheduled. it might save you a lot of time and motion. something worth checking out. it may not work. i don't know. ok.

anything else? any public comments on the director's report? seeing none, the next item i believe is going to be police department comments and questions. and fellow commissioners, i just move this in the agenda because it seems that the police dovetail into what roj has to say so i thought it would be more effective to have him follow. thank you. >> good evening, commissioners and staff. i'm steve mathias from central station. just to kind of reiterate as far as what we're doing, to create the communication with the clubs, as far as them reporting crimes or if they think there's going to be a problem, i say anything from speaking here in front of you which is televised, if they're tuning into that, they can see it, to we've done some presentations with cmac where we get that message out as well. and it's really paid off in the central for -- there's two incidents from this last week

alone that really paid off. and i'm going to give some description of what happened there. and so we find it's very, very helpful. we've got the dialogue with the clubs. if they are going to have a major event, they let us know. so we're not caught surprised on a saturday night or a thursday night or a wednesday night with, you know, all sorts of stuff going on. the first narrative on -- i'm only going read a narrative on one of the reports. the reason is there's a couple of different issues here that i want to address. we've had -- actually the first 121 m.p.c. that i come across and basically the year, i haven't seen a single one. i know when the law was passed, a lot of people had real concerns about what the police and the clubs were going to be doing as far as shooing people away and that sort of thing. so this is the first case that i've seen. out of all the reports that i've come across from central station. and also it deals with that and

also the communication with the station, how important it is. not waiting for an emergency after it started but trying to get out in front of it and proactively. this is a narrative. i'll go into it real quick. i was flagged down by the general manager of a horizon nightclub located at 498 broadway street. and stated that he was having difficulty removing a patron from his nightclub and requested assistance. he pointed to a male and stated that's him. i approached the suspect who i observed standing outside of horizon nightclub for frocksly five minutes. i advised him that he was in violation of 121, loyterring outside a nightclub. he stated that he was leaving. he took approximately five steps west of the nightclub and stated i ain't leaving and he returned. i detected a strong oweder of an alcoholic beverage from his breath. his eyes were heavy and droopy. i asked him for and received his identification. and the sergeant responded on the scene. i presented him with a citation

which he refused to sign. i vsed him of the consequences -- advised him of the consequences of not signing the citation. he stated this is fed up and ain't signing no ticket. just give me my i.d. back and i asked him to put his hands behind his back. broke free and started to run. i chased after him and he stopped and turned around and assumed a fighting stance and with his right closed fist hit me in the face breaking my glasses and knocking them to the ground. he then groobd me by my shirt collar and began to hit me numerous times in the right ear and head and i pushed him up against the wall, against horizon nightclub and placed him in a headlock. i felt his hands slide down my body and began to grab my utility belt. my baton became dislodged from its holder during the struggle. and fear for my safety i hit him repeatedly in the face with a closed -- closed left fist by ordering him to let go of my utility belt. with the assistance of several officers, he was taken into

custody. so we had injuries with this. and it kind of shows that number one, just the 121, it's not like they're out there all the time just moving everybody along. it is a tool that we use. but as i said, in the last year, the first time that i've seen it used. the other thing is right from the very beginning, he was flagged down by the general manager of the club. this is huge. if clubs are worried about trying to get -- oh, i don't want the staff as far as the logged in, they're not going to call when they need help. this person was going to be a problem no matter where he was that night. whether it was inside the club, outside the club, with the police, i'm very, very happy that club horizon flagged down the officer. they did exactly what we want them to do. and they need to be commended for that. moving on to another situation, i'm not going to go into the narrative but club zool on one tillman and booked a party. and when they started to find

out more about the party they became uneasy and this seems like it's going to be bad news. we don't want it. so two weeks before the event, they called up and they canceled it. the people that were planning on coming, as far as the promoter for it or the person that was organizing it, wasn't taking that for an answer. and says no, we're coming. and no, it's been -- it's been canceled. and they said no, we're coming. and it's going to take the police to stop us. and so now it getting worse -- it's getting worse. rather than cross fingers and hope for best he came down to the police station and talked with my sergeant. he filed a police report. and we had passing calls and directions, if there's any problems, give us a call and we'll immediately come out. so we were able to take care of that situation with no incident. but had the person not called that day, not made that proactive response, we wouldn't have known about it and we couldn't have helped. and what -- anything could have happened. so that's just another example of having a relationship with

the different clubs where they are coming in. with communications. just -- there were two more incidents in the district. one was in a case for an unconscious person who tripped in front. hustler club after being at the impala. there wasn't enough information to figure out anything more than that. but that was one of the things that have occurred in the district. and then at club slide on 1113, the lady's wallet was stolen while she was in the restroom. other than that, doing pretty well. any questions or comments? >> questions? >> excellent report. thank you very much. >> any public comment? any more for comments and questions? seeing none, take item five. presentation from various vendors on i.d. scanners and video surveillance equipment. >> commissioners, i want to introduce nick dallas. he is with n.s.c. federal

security. and just so this transparency here, i will tell you that my security systems in my homes are with n.s.c. federal security. and they're a big company. they do a lot of video surveillance for a lot of the different businesses. and i thought it would be -- to our benefit to hear what nick had to say. so thank you for coming. >> good evening. i work for a company based out of san francisco. we're privately owned. and we do a lot of low voltage in terms of security systems and camera surveillance. as we all know, security around the night clubs has always been an issue. stemming from going outside to inside, or inside to outside. with video surveillance, equipment, warning signs, and perhaps an active monitor, it usually helps.

they see what's going on. and it's a -- it deters some of the crime that can happen. it's been said that a picture is worth a thousand words. we had an incident where a local businessman vandalized his neighbor and competitor when contacted by the police. he denied any involvement when confronted with the full face body image, and the t-shirt, he admitted to the crime. and had hung low. there was another one. there was -- actually a murder in san francisco. the san francisco police came to me. and we have video surveillance at our office. and so with the d.v.r. put on a flash drive, they were able to apprehend the suspect and close off the crime. so in both of these cases, the

crimes might have still been open. and yet they were closed. so that's about what i have to say. >> i have a question. >> yes. >> for surveillance cameras on the street, i have a couple of questions. and what are the costs for those cameras to install them, and to monitor them? and can they be saved object a hard drive or can -- on a hard drive or can they be -- how does it work? >> camera systems range from $1,500 up to $10,000. it depends on what type of cameras we put in, what type of d.v.r. systems we put in. they record anywhere from one day up to 60 days. depending on the gigabytes of the hard drive. the cameras are -- there's a lot of different types of cameras. there's i.r. cameras which work off a reflective lighting, at nighttime, with the reflective lighting. there's true day-night cameras

that see even better. when you get into the facial images, that's where the cost goes up. the camera systems work off of -- actually the d.v.r. works off of your internet setup that you have. so what we do is we tap into the router in some cases we have your i.t. man program it. and you can actually view it from your computers inside and view it from your computers at home or wherever. an outside location. >> and my other question is how long does this take to enstall a system like this? -- install a system like this? >> it depends on how big it is. it could be from one day to four days. >> ok. thank you. >> thank you. >> commissioners, any questions? no? thank you very much. >> thank you. >> any public comment? >> give it to jocelyn. >> thank you for coming. >> ok. item number six. update from the ad hoc

committee regarding permit conditions relating to security proposed by the sfpd for all entertainment permits. >> hi, commissioners. so you have been given a memorandum that is privileged and confidential by the office of the city attorney. deputy city attorney paul zerefsky. so i just want -- so we're not going to discuss the content of this memorandum yet until you guys have a chance to fully go home and read it and digest it. it is privileged and confidential. so i caution you police do not discuss it with anyone. and we will discuss it here at the next meeting. and probably take some action on the -- the mandated conditions that were presented to us by sfpd. in the first memorandum, it addresses the bullet point two, three, and four.

so i want you to look at that. and in the second memorandum, it addresses all the other bullet points. so please, the city attorney worked really hard on this. so i would like you very much to see you guys to read it. and also consider when you do read it, the difference between praoist policy set -- private policy set by a private business, venue, and government-mandated policy which has two different implications. so that is my presentation. in its total. that's it. unless you have something to add. >> i just want to add that i did send electronic copies to the commission as well. so feel free to obviously take these with you. don't distribute them as commissioner joseph said.

these are privileged and confidential. but we will agendaize an item that's appropriate and do discussion and public comment in our next meeting. >> final comment, is this the point you just made regarding the difference between private policy and public policy, is that spoken of in the memo itself? >> it is. >> ok. >> and i just mentioned it. because i wanted you guys to pay attention to that aspect of the memos. and read it twice if you have to so that you really understand what it's saying. >> commissioners? >> i just like to thank ad hoc committee chairperson joseph. and jocelyn kane for working hard to get this opinion from the city attorney. i know it was -- >> thank you. >> not an easy task. and i will fully go home and read it. >> thank you very much. >> ok. any public comment on this? jocelyn, you brought your

mother here. and not making any -- >> not saying a word. no. i'm sorry. [laughter] >> all right. next item. item number seven. hearing and possible action regarding applications for permits under the jurisdiction of the entertainment commission. item a, rodriguez, marco, d.b.a. rocketfish, 1469 18th street, place of entertainment. >> commissioners, this is an application for a place of entertainment. the applicant applied for this in mid october to add what the application says a small band and d.j. to his restaurant and lounge located on petura hill at 18th and connecticut. this is the location of the late and great lingba lounge that some of you might remember. there is a liquor license on the premises and the applicant, the business seats 40 people. >> on that side of the restaurant. >> and it's open every day for

lunch and dinner. is that correct? >> dinner pretty much. >> dinner primarily. entertainment as planned -- is planned for wednesday through sunday. the planning department indicated that this is a permitted use on the ground floor. and attached to this memo is the station conditions. they've indicated approval with these conditions. i think. although i can't see him, officer dalton from bayview station is here to answer any questions that the commission might have regarding these conditions. marco, have you soon these conditions? >> i have. >> ok. and therefore the staff is recommending conditional approval. so do you want to add to anything? >> yes. i'm not sure if i'm comfortable with all these conditions. if i may go through. number one, hours of entertainment, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.

i don't know if we -- those are the hours that when we talked to the officer that i was comfortable with. however, we don't want to be limited to that because the competition around -- down the street is open until 2:00. they have anent at the same time license. -- they have an entertainment license. and goes until 2:00. we don't want any competitive disadvantage if possible. there's another condition regarding security. and since our venue is very small, and we're really looking at like a tourist or something accompanying music to people that are dining, we're not selling tickets, there's no promotions going on outside of that, we might have a d.j. again for a company, -- to accompany music during dinner. but we will not be having lines outside and i'm totally in agreement with that. but the security guard would probably -- more money than we would generate. during the event.

so these are the -- these are the conditions. and the menu items, the restaurant -- operating a restaurant is very expensive and we have a full sushi menu to carry this on all the way through midnight, 1:00 or whenever, is extremely expensive. i would suggest a limited happy hour menu, something we could have one employee do in the kitchen. and if that would be reasonable with you. outside of that. >> yeah. i'm the building owner. and i wanted to shed some light on these issues. you know, the lingba lounge went bankrupt. the sale was approved by the bankruptcy court. and the sale was basically grandfathered all the permits and licenses essentially in.

because they were submitted to it. the police department had never indicated to us, none of us have ever heard of any restrictions that they have put in, any conditions. in fact, when the license came back from the a.b.c., there were no conditions placed on the license at all. tonight, for the first time, we heard from the officer that he had put conditions in. and those conditions were never ever shown to us before. so the question now is, as you know, the bar in that location has been -- or a bar in that location has been in existence since 1938. and without interruption. it has always operated until 2:00 a.m. as is blooms down the street. the officer now tells me that he had put restrictions on bars to close at midnight. that's news to us. if that happened, there is some

real serious problems here. because a man bought a business with certain licenses that were given to him by the a.b.c. and now the police tells us that restrictions that nobody has ever seen. >> you have to speak into the microphone. >> you shouldn't be talking back. >> can you -- can you hear me now? so we have to go to see the chief of bayview and find out when did all this happen? i mean, due process says that if the police is going to give you any kind of condition, you got to be notified before you put your check in to buy a business. but now he tells me that he has put in -- >> sir -- >> conditions that aren't there. now, the man signed a lease. the lease specified his obligations to operate the business in a certain way, the way it was operated previously. now he's being told that that is not exactly what he has. and now they want to resubmit this again as a midnight. closing. now, the previous bars also had

very lemented menu. it has always been a restaurant. it was a mexican restaurant and then it was seafood and then it was tanya and sali, a thai food and now sushi. and there was never a requirement that the restaurant stay open until 2:00 a.m. >> ok. we've got that. you want to get the police department up here first? >> commissioner joseph, hang on one second. you want to speak but if we do this in an orderly fashion, i think we'll get through this and be clear about what is in front of the commission tonight and what is issues related to the police and the a.b.c. and so it would be i think probably the best for now if you -- if the applicants don't have any further information to present, that we allow officer dalton to come to the microphone and then -- it's unlikely.

because this is not really a debate. the commission at this point has the ability to do a variety of things. and so they will discuss that. and if they have any questions for you, they'll ask you back up to the microphone. but that's pretty much the way we keep order. >> if i may. i think there's a discrepancy. i didn't hear the officer say we were going to be open until midnight only. >> so for clarity purposes, the conditions you're looking at here are conditions related to your entertainment permit. these are under consideration right now. the commission is the body that will either impose these or not. these are the police department's recommendations to the commission. and this is for your entertainment only. this does not require or impose closure to your business in any way. this is related only to the

addition of the entertainment. so does that make sense? >> it does. thank you. >> ok. >> very well done. >> i think what also needs to be said, you need to be aware that if this is all -- excuse me -- coming too sudden and you aren't prepared for this, you can always request a continuance. >> thank you, commissioner meko. commissioner meko: you do have the right to request a continuance to put this off to another meeting. >> ok. that's fine. we would ask officer dalton to come forward and discuss the proposed amendments by the bayview station. >> good evening, commissioners. officer dalton, bayview station. going back on the a.b.c. issue, i met with mr. rodriguez prior

to him opening up the restaurant. we discussed his business plan. we talked about conditions that would be imposed. i sent my recommendation to our a.l.u. unit, they sent them off to a.b.c. and whether they're aware of them i don't know. i don't know what the process is for an applicant after i get done meeting with them. that being said, i met with marco or mr. rodriguez again. the -- last week i believe it was. discussed similar conditions that would be -- i would be imposing. one of them would be the hours of entertainment. and this is the hours of his operation were straight from his mouth. he wants to be open from -- he told me from 5:00 to midnight. wednesday through i think either saturday or sunday. i made it from 11:00 a.m. to midnight seven days a week. there was a discussion about the security guard. his occupancy, mr. rodriguez

told me, was 70 people. i requested for one security guard. that's it. he is advertising this as a place for d.j.'s and entertainment. and i found a flier at the coffee shop that's been advertised in the bay guardian. this is in line with exactly what he wants to do. or what he told me. >> any questions for the officer? yes. >> could you describe the neighborhood as -- is this heavily residential? >> i would describe it as mostly a mixed use type area. a lot of ground floor businesses for a couple blocks with residents above them. >> so what i'm wondering is why you would impose a requirement that there be no line waiting outside