have is slow-growing. it is not like seven of death where it comes in and the trees die within months. -- it is not like seven iaoak te death, where it comes in and the trees die within months. we are not just looking for mitigating the impact of the removal. i understand some of the trees need to come out. a couple really are in bad shape. what we really would like to see is a phased removal so they are not all taken out at once, and one that can mitigate some of the impacts of the removal. one of the things i have seen all over the city is the green streets program that has been going on. we would really like to see not just coming in and removing all the trees at once, but mitigating it with a phased removal in combination with some more green sidewalk streetscape

in. the sidewalks are very wide, so there is room to do -- a well. -- oh well. this is not beautiful, but these are some of the pictures i got off the streets of san francisco where they have done green scaping. there is a lot of runoff going down the street because we are on a hill. i think that would also help with storm water pollution medication. -- mitigation. i want to point out that mitigating these impacts and trying to reduce the effect on the neighborhood is consistent with the california environmental quality act. there has not been any compliance with ceqa in this case. i understand this is not the biggest issue facing the city

environmentally. to say it has no impact on the neighborhood on this block or on the environment is not accurate, because we can see that these trees have been used. they do not just have aesthetic value, but they have also been used by migratory birds and do serve a habitat function. in view of that, we really -- we just want to see a more thoughtful plan for phasing and mitigation. thank you. commissioner hwang: is there a proposal from the department, a specific one? >> we asked for phasing in our initial appeal to the hearing officer. i did a couple of things. when i called the department at the beginning, i was told by the barbara's to spoke to -- the

arborist i spoke to said his initial recommendation had been for phased removal and he had been overruled. that was the basis of our appeal before. after that, i send an e-mail to the arborist to have done the work in front of the hearing officer. i wanted to meet and talk because i thought i wanted something reasonable. i never heard back from him. commissioner hwang: did you submit a specific -- did you put it in writing that phase one would be this time and these trees, etc.? >> i submitted the arborist report saying these trees could be retained for a greater period of time. commissioner hwang: what you described is the extent of your engagement with the department? >> yes. commissioner hwang: thank you. president peterson: >> men's short? -- ms. short?

>> department of urban forestry. i would like to give you a copy of the categorical exemptions you received. i have a copy for the appellant. i did e-mail her earlier in the day, but i recognize it was late. just a little bit of background, if i may. the department was initially contacted by two people regarding the condition of the elms. iraq asked to evaluate the trees because there was concern about their condition. one had failed at the top of the block. we evaluated all the trees on the block. we identified that 14 chinese elm trees should be removed due to significant interaction with tanker, which kills the tissue

of the trees. there is very poor structural form and canopy deployment as well. the tanker is still growing, but it is advanced in these trees are ready. it has been growing for a long time. two certified arborist did the initial evaluation. to address the notion, we looked at whether we thought phasing was possible. the indication that was recommended may have been a misunderstanding. we wanted to look at whether we thought phasing made sense in this case. we always do. i will emphasize that we always consider whether pruning and other actions can mitigate before removal. we never jump to removal under any circumstances. our policy and our ordinance is very preservationist of mature trees. we take that very seriously.

i just want to emphasize that. a third of certified arborist evaluated the trees before the hour hearing, and then after the hearing at the request of the hearing officer because the report submitted by the appellant identified eight trees that they thought could remain for three to five years. our arborist looked at those and other trees to determine whether we thought it made sense to keep these trees for another three or five years. could they possibly remain without failure? anything is possible. trees are amazing living things that often react in things. -- in ways we do not expect. however, if a tree were to fail, it would be clear the city had failed to act on a known possible hazard.

frankly, i am not here to disparage my colleagues, but i am not clear at all what criteria the appellant arborist was using to determine the tree's he identified could remain. if i could have the overhead, i will so -- i will show some trees. this is one of the trees he identified that had good structure. this is the same tree, showing the tanker -- canker. it is generally recommended that if a tanker -- canker has affected more than a third of the trunk, removal is recommended. i think you can see this is very invasive. this is the same tree. those first ones were the same tree. we are moving on to another tree that was identified as having good structure according to the arborist.

unique in some ways, although not to the chinese alma. --elm. president peterson: the photograph on the right -- what is that? >> that is a close-up of the canker on the same tree. president peterson: could you push it up? there is just a bit of glare. is it dark? is it burned? >> it is the process of the tissue. it is brown and weathered looking. president peterson: is that what -- is that exceed a third of the circumference? >> yes. it exceeds a third of the circumference. i only printed photos that were based on the trees he was recommending to keep. i fully appreciate there will be an impact on the street and i appreciate that. we went out to look at whether

it made sense to try to keep these trees a few more years. i think we have been living on borrowed time with these trees. the extent of the damage in all the trees we identified for removal is quite significant. this is another one that was again considered a potential tree to preserve by the arborist. i wish that phasing made sense. it really does not, based on the condition of these trees. we would be very happy to work with property owners if they are interested in doing sidewalk landscaping. where that happens in the city, it is a median situation. it is the adjacent property owner's maine and responsibility and cost burden to install. we would be happy to work with them if they are interested and do additional out reach on the

block for a species selection as well. but the department feels it does not make sense to try to retain these trees in position. commissioner garcia: ms. short, is this contagious to other trees? >> you are at no risk. [laughter] anthrax is pervasive in san francisco. trees that are susceptible to it -- it is already out there. removing these trees will not prevent it, from the tracking -- will not prevent it from attacking a tree nearby. commissioner garcia: about half the trees will go. will the birds occupy the remaining trees? will they find a new habitat? >> i think oftentimes there are other errands around. certainly, if that is their preferred species, birds often will identify other trees nearby.

there are an additional 13 trees that would remain on the block. i think only one is an elm. the birds may well adapt. it depends on the species of bird. commissioner garcia: have you decided how many replacement trees there would be? >> we always try to do a one- for-one replacement at a minimum. it looks like there might be a sight that would prevent the placing because of utilities. we would change the spacing to try to get a 14th replacement tree in. because there is a bus stop at one end, it makes it difficult to replace this everywhere, but we would do our best. commisssioner fung: there is also a number being raised that there are 15 trees. >> no. only 14 trees. i did not see that. commisssioner fung: if you count

the ones on the street map, the ones that are circled, there are 15. some of the documentation -- i do not know whether it came from the appellant or your own documentation. >> ok. not that it matters that much -- commisssioner fung: not that it matters that much. >> i believe that was a mistake presented by the appellant arborist, unless he identified a stumpers. he may be calling that 15. we are looking at 14 trees. commisssioner fung: that same map provided by the barbaras -- is there an issue also with spacing of those trees? one appears to be closely spaced. >> they are in some cases

closely spaced. that is part of why we are not sure about 13 or 14 due to space and. i do not think that we could not replant in those areas. we feel confident we could get at least 13 replacement trees, probably 14. commisssioner fung: it is a fairly fast-growing species. >> it is. commisssioner fung: the canopy looks quite weak, contrary to what the arborist -- >> yes. our findings were that most trees had fairly significant canopy dieback. that is consistent with the way the tankers -- cankers attack in the vascular system of the tree so that water is not getting to the canopy. president peterson: you mentioned another failure. was that on the same block? >> it was sometime ago. it was the reference i heard

from the constituents who were asking about the other tree. commissioner hwang: what did that entail? >> it was a large stem failure. it was not a whole tree failure. but it compromised integrity of that elm. commissioner hwang: the stem of a branch? >> this essentially has the main trunk and then to main stems. it was one of the larger -- "we often called dominant trunk or main stem. president peterson: do you know if that resulted in any harm to the public? >> i could look back. president peterson: but off the top you do not know. vice president goh: i am looking at the ceqa cadex. that was provided to the appellant? >> just today. we received it from planning last night. vice president goh: isn't this

to be appealed to the board of supervisors? i see mr. sanchez nodding his head. >> i am not a ceqa expert, but probably. vice president goh: thanks. president peterson: and want to follow up on the heron. did your department look at which trees that had the impact of habitat loss? >> we did not look specifically at habitat loss. president peterson: is that not within your purview? is that some and you do not consider it? >> it is something we try to consider. i think in this case because of the condition of the trees, and there are still other trees on the block and other elements in the neighborhood, it is a little bit different than if you are looking at an impact habitat or when we do removals in areas that are more naturalistic

areas. commisssioner fung: ms. short, is it the department intend to issue one contract for the replacement of all for trees? -- four trees? >> the replacement would be in house, but we would make all efforts to minimize any delays and have it ready to go. commisssioner fung: what time frame is the department looking at? >> probably if the board decision is to uphold the removal, we would try to coordinate for january to remove the trees and to the front garden and replanting within two to three weeks of that. commisssioner fung: a relatively short time. >> for us, quite short. our order indicated a 24 inch removal tree, which is generally

the size we usually installed. vice president goh: a 24 inch blocks -- 24 inch box tends to be 5 feet or so? >> depending on the species, i would say more like 8 feet tall. the trunk dynameter in an l. might be as much as -- in an elm might be as much as 2 inches in a 24 inch box. i have 25, 30, 24. president peterson: the timetable you said for your department is really quick -- is that because of the condition of these trees? >> it is a recognition that we are in the storm season and the condition of the trees. but also we would want to move forward and try to get the replacements as quickly as possible. we recognize the impact to the

neighborhood. we would try to minimize that as much as possible. president peterson: thank you. >> is there public comment on this item? please step forward. if there are several people who wish to speak, if you would not mind lining up against the wall, that will help move the proceeding forward. thank you. >> i am rebecca rourke. i have lived on that neighborhood -- in that neighborhood on the block for most of my life. i love those trees. i have to trees i looked at in front of the every day. i see one from my first floor and one from my second floor. i can hardly stand the idea that they will be gone, but does beautiful canapes -- those canopies are really help the in front of my house.

it is a very difficult transition for me. obviously, any new trees that are put in there are not going to develop sufficiently to take those trees' place. we have had some heavy-duty storms and nothing has come down. i think they could stay up a little bit longer. that is it. >> thank you. next speaker. >> i have been in my place for seven years. i do not know when the pictures were taken of the trees. the ones when she was examining the trees. but we knew there was a problem. the trees looked unhealthy and i wondered what the situation was.

the tree looks as good as it ever looked. it has a beautiful canopy. in the spring, the trees did not look great. but the one in front of my house looks terrific now. i would hate to see it come down. 1354 is my address. president peterson: your next door to the prior speaker? >> yes. president peterson: i did not mean to interrupt, but thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening. my name is jillion. i have lived on the 1300 block since 1978. when i first lived there, the trees were probably already 30 years old, i believe. there was a time about 10 years ago when they did appear to be

in very bad condition. but progressively since that time they have flourished. they look a lot better than they did 10 years ago. i may be wrong, but i have never observed the tree is having a very good pruning. i think some of the problems people have mentioned could have been overcome with great care of those trees. there are three trees to the right of my house that lost limbs within the last two or three years. again, i think that reason was because they have not been cared for properly. i do think that most of the trees should be kept, because of the historic nature of the neighborhood men and the beautiful foliage they give and the beautiful look a gift to the street.

there would be perhaps three trees that could be replaced, and perhaps that could be an experiment to start with the three worst trees and then see what is done to replace those. and then reconsider the other countries at a later point, perhaps in three years. in the meantime, give them an appropriate pruning. thank you. president peterson: is there any other public comment? seeing none, we will move into rebuttal. ms. folk, you have three minutes of rebuttal. >> i am good to make a couple of points. one is on the categorical exception. i have not received it yet. i just got it now. i continue to think it is not

appropriate in a case where there is real habitat value associated with the trees. the proposal as i understand it is to remove all of them on the block. there is not going to be another tree there of that size and structure to replace it. for the canopy of the trees, there are three trees that jilian referred to that are on the southeast corner of the block. there can be is not healthy. nobody is debating -- their canopy is not healthy. nobody is debating that. but the north side -- it is lush and green. to debate that is just not accurate. regarding the timing, i would just like a couple of points on replacement trees. the one ms. short referred to that they took out -- it has been over a year and it has

bought been replaced. there is one on the corner of per se and mcallister that had a permit granted for removal three years ago. it was replaced last week. it was replaced with a magnolia tree when we were sitting here with an order indicating they were recommending replacing it with a chinese elm for the trees on this block. i feel like there has not been a coordinated effort at mitigation and with any kind of replacement. lastly, on the issue of coordinating with the community, that is in the order for the hearing officer. i am curious when they intend to coordinate with us if they are intending to take the trees out in january. they have not responded to any request to have a meeting on this issue. >> ms. short?

>> i do not think i have too much more to say since the director's order does not specifically say we were meant to replace a chinese elm. it said we should identify with the neighbors a tree that is consistent with city standards. there is no point in coordinating with the neighbors if the trees are not coming out. we're waiting on an outcome from this hearing. i do not have the authority to overrule a department order unilaterally. the meeting before this hearing would not have a sense. but we would be coordinating with them if the board grants removal of the trees. i think the last thing i would say is even the arborist report from the appellant did not recommend that anything could be

mitigated through pruning or treatment of any kind. if we thought pruning could solve the problem, that is what we would start with. commisssioner fung: miss short, these are city maintained trees. >> correct. commisssioner fung: how did they wind up in these unusual shapes? >> because chinese elm is very fast growing, it can be difficult to get ideal structure when the trees are young. they tend to grow very quickly. often a trade-off is that you end up with growth that is not as well controlled. the first issue is the species of tree. the second issue is that when you have reject this is not uncommon for the species because of the fast growth and less than ideal structure. then the canker can invade further. the canker is contributing to a

lot of the twisting. commisssioner fung: what maintenance will the department conducted? >> probably relatively limited maintenance, although we are doing a much better job at doing young tree pruning to try to develop the best possible structure while trees are young. we know when trees are more mature we have been hit by budget cuts and are not able to do as frequent pruning of mature trees as we once were. in terms of the establishment and the young tree care, that would be a commitment. we have been doing pretty well with that. vice president goh: i have a question. what is the average life expectancy of this type of elm? >> i am going to dodge that question as i often do by saying that city trees -- urban trees have a very different life expectancy than do trees in their native habitat. i would say chinese elms are

probably more likely to fail or have root problems than to die of old age. this canker affects them, particularly the older varieties that are not resistant. that contributes. they do not die of old age very often. vice president goh: one of the speakers mentioned a different species planted already. what is the expectation with regard to coordinating? >> there are a number of species already on the block. the homes are on the block along with some cherry, london plain tree, tulip tree, and others. the replacement tree was actually a requirement of a building project.

that was not replanted by the city. that was planted by the property owner as a condition of their permit. president peterson: i know you addressed phasing somewhat earlier. i think we have an agreement there are three trees in the worst shape, the southeastern trees. what with -- what if those for to go first to replant and then come back with the other? >> to me, identifying one tree that is worse than another is really a challenge in this case. i think the trees are in very -- they are all in -- i do not know if i can say equally bad condition. it would be hard for me to determine which three trees are the worst. that is why we are not recommending saving them. however, if the board directed us to do a phased removal, we could start at the end of the block. president peterson: did you personally go tohe