no. 4, i look at it as a way to the best and most easily qualified person that has at least two years of full-time experience in teaching, writing, with a demonstrable professional and historical agency has almost critical for a position like this. i know that you meet the qualifications based on the and/or of that definition. i was looking at the secretary of history's qualifications as well. i know that there are many people that have great qualifications and i do not in any while -- in any way want to diminish your great experience and work but i do see that there are others. for example, mr. attorney, with his books on urban development transportation, women's history labor and workers in san francisco as well as the development of the presidio and

san francisco as a metropolis. that research quality to me as far as historic preservation commission makes sure that development is balanced in the city. as well as a knowledge in the important historical events that you mentioned in your comments. i am just thinking that i want to see someone on seat no. 4 that has significant research and historic experience laid out in the definition. i think that your qualifications are great but i think that there are others with better qualifications. i will do my best to listen to what my colleagues say but i think that another -- i would like to see other nominees that have historic preservation qualifications. especially in research as well. i will simply state that for the record. thank you. supervisor campos: let's open

this up to public comment. if there is any member of the public comment that would like to speak? we have been joined by supervisor brown. welcome back. >> mr. chairman. members of the rules committee. my name is brown. as you have reference, former member of this board of supervisors. i also shared this committee. i rose today to speak generically that i am appalled to witness what is happening here. this rules committee was designated to thavet with due

diligence to get the facts on the qualifications of persons who are nominated from this city to serve on various commissions. this is the people's work. this is not the work of a committee. and it appears to me that what we are doing, instead of preserving our great traditions, we are tearing belem what has been established -- we are tearing down what has been established. this is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. the people came today to witness your acting on the qualifications of persons who have been nominated. [applause] and not for you to play partisan

politics. a game of wrangling with a particular mayor. mayors come and go. you and i come and go. [tone] i would hope that this day you would search your hard, and evaluate your motives, and raise the question -- and live for the people or for partisan politics? -- am i for the people or partisan politics? supervisor campos: thank you, a supervisor. >> your job is to get on with it the work of the city and not play partisan politics. [applause] supervisor campos: next speaker, please. >> good morning, supervisors.

before i was elected to my current position as the mayor of a small town in [unintelligible] county, i managed the cannery for 30 years as i lived in san francisco. i am here today to support the appointment of richard johns to the historic preservation commission. i have the pleasure of knowing and working with richard johns for nearly two decades. we met shortly after the museum for the city of san francisco was formed. we serve on the board for many years. mr. johns was selected because of his knowledge and background of the bay area in california history. we worked together on numerous endeavors, including fund- raising building organization and preserving landmarks like the mount davidson cross and

historical waterfront peers and businesses. mr. johns has always been a committed, hard-working and affect a board member, officer, and leader. mr. johns has an enduring passion, as you have heard, and appreciation for san francisco history and preservation of historical assets. he has a polished, keen legal mind that is balanced with a sharp wit, a sense of humor, and common sense. all of them useful attributes when interpreting the national park standards of rehabilitation and other documents that the historic preservation commission will use as a basis for its decisions. most importantly, he appreciates the honor and responsibilities of public service. particularly when it comes to preserving treasures for future generations. [tone]

i believe he will be an outstanding commissioner. supervisor campos: thank you very much. next speaker, please. >> good morning, supervisors. happy new year. in the chair of the city hall preservation advisory commission and i am here to speak on behalf of richard johns, who has practiced the art of seduction in -- on almost in the historic " realm. i have known him for many years. i remember going to the cannery and watching movies there. one of my fondest memories is the building he has worked so very hard to keep open to some degree. that is the mint of san francisco. as a small child i sallows stairs and a an ice-cream cone

in 1946 -- as a small child i sat on the stairs and eight to an ice-cream cone in 1946. that is my personal memory. richard has an incredible passion and incredible love of this city. and also the things that make san francisco so very special. i am looking forward to the day when his dream comes true of opening up the san francisco mint as the san francisco museum. i speak on his behalf because i think he will lend so much to this city with his work on the commission. thank you. supervisor campos: supervisor dufty m. love >> i am so pleased that you came here to be a witness today.

what you have done to give a face to city hall for thousands of workers and young people. there are days that i show up in jeans and tennis sneakers, but you are elegant and reflect the city so well every day you are here. you are a treasure for san francisco. thank you. >> thank you very much. i remember when we were across the street at the war memorial veterans building hoping that this building would be open on time. it was and it is truly a remarkable experience to work in this building and work with all of the people i have been fortunate to meet, to know, and have become my friends. supervisor dufty: you are remarkable. supervisor campos: indeed. watching you speak to young people and the look on your face when they talk about the history of this building -- and the look

on their face when you talk about the history of this building. >> that is truly like passion and a passion that a former mayor allowed me to put into action. a passion that i share with mr. john. he is my neighbor and he does call me on the phone to ask me questions about the history of san francisco. the advantage i have is that i am slightly older than him. [laughter] supervisor campos: next speaker. >> good morning, supervisors. i am the principal at page and turnball. i am here to support the nomination of richard johns to the historic preservation commission. i have known him for a number of years. particularly as the president of the historical society between

2006 and 2010. our firm has been part of a design team working on the museum for the city of san francisco to be housed in the united states mint. the project holds great promise for the city and will be house as a national an historic landmark. the hope is that the museum and the visitors center will provide a great introduction to visitors from all nations. the project is supposed to be environmentally sensitive and is to provide an innovative approach to preservation standards. i can attest to mr. johns vision i am leaving the board and acting as a client to the design team over the past several years. i know that his interest and commitment to history, particularly that of san francisco and the bay area, goes back much further than that.

this experience qualifies him for this commission. he would be were the commission to the historic preservation commission. i hope that you will act on his behalf. supervisor campos: thank you. next speaker, please. >> good afternoon, supervisors. peter warfield. i would like to echo what supervisor morris said earlier. one wants to look at the best qualified. while the projects of mr. johnson seemed to be worthy and i would like to talk with him about who he knew, there are others who i think have of standing qualifications without having to rely on the and/or clause. including a name that has been mentioned and not to be

forgotten, the current holder of that seat, james buckley. in the meetings i have been to and being concerned with, i have found him to be thoughtful, knowledgeable, willing to contribute to public discourse, certainly worthy of continuation in his post. the apparently sudden dropping of mr. buckley raises questions as to what's going on with someone who has served for quite a time in outposts -- in that post. one imagines if the appointment at the branch library might have had something to do with his being dropped as the others have not been dropped for reappointment. i would support james buckley

and urge him to support -- and urge support of a qualified candidate in this position rather than going on with the current nominee. as i previously said, i would encourage you to vote as you have on the previous items [tone] -- items. [tone] supervisor campos: next speaker, please. >> hon. supervisors, my name is [unintelligible] i am impressed that we have in san francisco so many enthusiastic volunteers interested in the history of the city and in putting a lot of time and energy into that. however, these are volunteers. i think that the text of the

qualifications in proposition j was geared at a professional historian. i feel that mr. johns is a professional lawyer but not a historian. therefore i would urge you to consider reappointing james buckley or professor shanley. they accuse some lunch. supervisor campos: thank you. next speaker, please. >> our long, speaking for the hit -- sentences the preservation society. mr. johnson is a great citizen and civic leader. i commend him for the organizations that he belongs to. our consortium strongly supported proper j and it's very specific requirements for commissioners. amongst commissions, this is one

of the most highly qualified professional groups in the city. historical a we have not, for a sophisticated city, been attentive to our heritage as many other cities in the country and the world are. this seat before you is very specific in its language. not only in terms of being a historian, but it must comply with the secretary of the interiors professional qualifications standards. many of the seats had been -- have been filled by phd historians. the point was to elevate the commission as high as possible to help the citizens of this city and preserve the heritage of this city.

hpc historians provide technical expertise as well to maintain san francisco's status as eligible for federal and state grant funding providing enhanced roles in the nomination to the national register of historic places subject to consultation by federal and state agencies. by law state agencies rely on the determination of historic resources responsibilities. [tone] supervisor campos: thank you very much. next speaker? supervisor alioto-pier: i just want to make one comment. personally, i would like to focus our attention to the candidate at hand. the charter is very clear. we are not here to drafted again

or make appointments ourselves. we are here to look at the appointments before us. you might like someone more, but that is not our purview. that is not what we do. it is a lay oral appointment. we take the candidates the mayor sends us and we look at them. i would like us to try to focus a bit more on left. it is clear in the charter, and/or. or is a very important word. you do not have to have both of those qualifications. mr. johns has demonstrated demonstrable experience in north america bay architectural area history. let's talk specifically about that. if someone out steps for the experience fits into -- if someone doubts that for the experience fifth into another

regiono umphr the thought -- or the experience fits into another qualification, we should hear. >> one of the things that has not been said today is that the secretaries standards require a minimum professional qualification in history. a graduate degree or a ba plus other things. i was very involved in the drafting of prop j. it is very important to maintain high standards that we set in the charter amendment for the history position. there are no qualified historians in the planning department. most of them do not even know how to do local research.

who fills that seat is very important in terms of judging the historical accuracy of architectural surveys, reviewing registered nominations we have received from the state, landmark nominations and other things. i woke up this morning thinking that wanted to share my resume with you. i have been around for a long time, as you know. i am not qualified for this seat. i am considered a nationwide expert and am not qualified for this seat. thank you. supervisor campos: next speaker, please. >> i am a professor of history at san francisco state.

i have continued to serve in eight advisory capacity for the planning department for the past two years that i was not on the board. my name has been mentioned here. i would be willing to serve, but that is not why i am here. i am here as a historian. this appointment calls into question what it means to be an historian. the charter says that seat four must be a historian. what does that mean? to me, being a historian means being centrally involved, professionally, with history. i do not see that in this candidate. his bachelor's degree is in english and his graduate degree is in the lot. he has had a long and passionate

commitment to historical preservation, but does that make him a historian? in my mind, it does not any more than it makes him an architect. there are other professional qualifications involved beyond passion and commitment. it is embarrassing that someone with this background has to listen to these kinds of comments about his qualifications. i think he would be highly qualified for the at large seat. i wish there were more at large seats on this commission. there is only one, unfortunately. i think the public need more representation. but i do not think mr. johns is a historian. supervisor campos: thank you. [tone] supervisor campos: next speaker,

please. >> good morning, members of the committee. we feel it is critical for the city to recognize and preserve professional qualifications established under the charter for other nominees. we want to emphasize overriding priorities are to uphold the priority of proposition j. with all due respect to mr. john's and other members of the committee, of we do not feel that the language in proposition j makes compliance with professional qualifications optional. we read that section in the language as to whether or not that person should have specialized training were demonstrable experience in bay area history to the extent that there is ambiguity i would urge the committee to seek guidance

and opinion from the city attorney to clarify that issue. based on the material submitted today the questions on whether he can meet the objective professional qualifications established by the city charter for this seat, we do not question his dedication in the history or preservation of historic resources or deny that those qualifications are impressive. however, in the absence of evidence that satisfies qualification requirements in standards, we request this nomination withdrawn from further consideration. i'd also like to add that because of the peculiar timing of this hearing, i have not had an opportunity to meet with mr. johns. i am relying exclusively on the material submitted before you. thank you very much. [tone] supervisor campos: next

speakers, please. >> [unintelligible] with bright lime. with respect to mr. john, we heard a lot about his background and expertise in the area of history. i would however like to know where he would seek to incorporate community history and where he would use the lens that the historic preservation committee is going to be asked to apply in 2011, community preservation of just architecture preservation. does he support the idea of protection for low-income communities of color and working-class families? moderate income homeowners fell to opt out -- homeowners to opt out? there was a hub of a few weeks ago where i hardline was taken. no means no when it came to demolishing historic resources to protect communities and

homeowners that did not want to live under these rules that are a burden as much as a benefit when it comes to living in historic communities. my good friend [unintelligible] jackson had to leave but she joined me at that meeting and reminded me that she testified -- look, i do not want to live here if it means i have to go through you all to get the paint changed on my house. there are certain people that do not want to have to go through these rules because they are happy as it is. they feel a sense of community. it seems that mr. johnson has a very strong historic lands for some of these issues. in 2011 the preservation commission is going to be asked about the community and moderate income homeowners. i want to know where he stands on these issues. [tone] supervisor campos: thank you very much.

next speaker? >> good morning. my name is john bardee. i am one of the founders of the living hill historic district. it is not whether he is an outstanding member of the historic preservation community, he is. he would be eminently qualified for one of the other seats. however, this is the seat for the historian. i really want to commend the wonderful remarks of [unintelligible] mr. a few moments ago. -- mr. [unintelligible] a few moments ago. i would never dream of qualifying for this c. these are issues of complexity and they need the advice of a historian on the board. this is not like the historic landmarks board. this is a fully empowered commission. we do not even have the sort of

expertise in the planning department itself. we need the expertise. the commissioners asked each other questions and we need that general high qualifications for architectural historians, which this implies. i think that elizabethan theater is fine, but it is not in america and it is a very thin connection. the historic connection needs to be of held in san francisco. i would not want our city to be imperiled for some reason like this. this is a very important consideration of this board. thank you very much. really, this was very short notice and i didn't know about this until the last week. i just came back from san diego. thank you. supervisor campos: any other members of the public that would like to speak? seeing no one, public comment is

closed. i would like to ask mr. johnson a follow-up question. again, thank you for your patience. the way that i read section 3 of the charter, with respect to number four, is that it is an historian that either meets the qualifications of the secretary of the interior, and/or has a demonstrable experience in north american area history. nonetheless, the person must be an historian as well. a historian that meets one of two qualifications. do you consider yourself an historian? >> absolutely. if i had not i would not have devoted 20 years to studying,