we have already brought them here and put new conditions. they have accumulated three citations since then. and this doesn't seem to be a logical progression. i mean, one would think that the next step would be consideration of a 0-day suspension. so i would -- 30-day suggestion spence. so i support president or vice president joseph's position on that. >> one reason we recommended the seven-day initially is with three citations under the -- under the code, the three citations can be considered notice and therefore we don't -- there need to be no hearing. this needs to be literally nothing. we could -- we could literally serve them with a seven-day without warning or notice. >> i understand that. >> but in terms of this hierarchy of consequence consequence -- consequence.

>> absolutely. >> and set in motion the possibility of ultimately considering -- you know, rev cation of that permit. >> also, just wanted to -- one other thing, i would like you to have a conversation with inspector about this last incident because of the underaged drinking, if you could do that please. thank you. >> any other questions for -- for commissioner benetti? >> inspector, i had a question regarding the bat rae theft at ruby -- battery and theft. did it take place inside? >> it took place outside. what is unique about this incident is that -- part of the -- part of the person who is -- one of the people being accused of theft is actually staff. the statements that we have received don't quite make up. we're working again -- while

we're waiting for an incident report from the venue so we have a clearer picture of what had occurred. >> and with -- with respect to the number of deaths, notices of violation that you issued with the sound -- the sound ordinance violations. are these venues, 14 -- icon and lava, are they taking reasonable steps to improve the situation? what is the status with respect to their ownership so these don't happen again? is this just merely a -- like audrey said before, a situation where they just playing it too loud? >> you have the -- on the list 1417 15th street, it was an event. after meeting with the manager, we shouldn't have more event there is. ike cop is working with the neighbors -- icon is working with the neighbors on their sound control. hopefully -- i'm hoping to have

some progress on that this week, next week at the latest. lava is up permitted venue that has been doing, having a d.j. play periodically. the following is -- is currently applying for a p.o.e. they had -- they had one or a few -- they had a d.j. playing basically during happy hour which led to a complaint which brought us in and their -- they're currently going through the paperwork. they stopped any such action and -- they're currently going through the process of getting a place of entertainment. and five points art house also -- also, it is like an art gallery that was having an event and -- they're -- you know, again after talking to the owner of such, we shouldn't be seeing any -- hopefully we shouldn't see any mother events at that location. >> is lava in the process of applying for a license? >> no.

>> commissioner meko. >> with regard to icon, you reported to us several times last year that you had driven past the place and the -- the front door was wide open. when front door is wide open, the sound is being projected straight down rodgers, avenue. >> correct. >> where all of the neighbors are. our recommendation at the time, i know we put a whole lot of new conditions on to -- on to the venue. i don't think this is one of the conditions, but we did strongly recommend that they build a sound trap of some sort for their front door. now i just went by the place last week and theyú they've don thing. perhaps we should bring them in and make that a new condition? >> so the neighbors on rogers isn't where we're getting the complaint on. what icon has done is they

haven't done the sound track but they have become more much discipline when the front door is closed. when the door is close, as you know the sound being projected into the area, the sound is not much of an issue. >> but when the door is open -- swoosh -- >> it can be. so one of the things that i've done when checking them out is made sure that the door is closed. and predominantly it's not always there. it's not always closed but it is a lot. the neighbors get were the ones above the space. the neighbors i talked to i haven't gotten a complaint from any of them in the last few months. and the ones that were complaining i haven't even gotten a response from. so this is brand-new complaints from brand-new neighbors. >> i have a question -- so since they don't have a license

but they're having sound issues, what's our recourse? obviously, we can't take alicense away that they don't have. does this become a police issue, then? >> what this is indicating is that mr. bernelli went out there on a complaint or drove by. we issued notices of violations which are not issues. for the most part we seek complains in that they go oops, i didn't know i needed a permit and they stopped doing it or they come in and learn the process of going -- getting a permit and then they go ahead and do it. it's not clear to me necessarily that this is more than a one-time visit and this isn't a repeated -- a repeat offender. so we don't know yet whether this n.l.v. has an impact or not. theoretically it does. just to answer further, no, we

can't take anything away and absolutely if they continue to have complaints, i imagine it becomes a place matter at some point, but we can't -- can we issue -- we can't issue a citation to them. so yeah, that's exactly right. it will just become -- if this is a repeat situation. i don't know that it will be. i'm not familiar with this location. >> so just as point of clarification, you know, there are -- you don't need an entertainment permit to play a c.d. or an ipod, you don't. but you could be at a sound compliance through those devices through a sound system in which case the police can sight under the sound ordinance in the police code. question give them a notice of violation and isn't there a sound task force as well, inspector grinelli that can go out and do that?

so sound is covered di a whole lot of people. they cover sound as well. >> i think his reports are that they have d.j.s from time to time. did i mishear that? >> no, that they had a d.j. at -- one time that i was there physically, yeah. >> any other questions? ok, public comment on the director executive report? seeing none, public comment is closed. item number four police comments and questions. >> madam vice chair commissioners, inspector, good evening. why don't i start with kind of anticipating some of your questions and talk about our

first issue which is our communication of report. actually we think this is a very good thing. what we're trying to do is level the playing field so any information that we may provide to it city official like a supervisor and anything that one of your staff or the director may provide, they match. so what we're trying to do is instead of having 10 district stations faxing you, faxing me, faxing the command staff and sometimes forgetting or not, if we centralize it, we can log everything that goes to you guys, everything we send to abc, everything we send to the city attorney code enforcement so that at a glance, your commission, our command staff can say, who's notified about this. under the older system, i would point out that because we attend -- have 10 different

stations we would lose that institutional knowledge once that permit moved along. and this is really a result of just practical experience. i would take it one step further because we need the same reciprocation where we talk about the lava example where you guys are issues citations. we also need to get that information back so that we can be more informed and we may very well may have. our station may have gotten it. and if it goes through the a.l.u. we can see that we take appropriate appings. if my office doesn't know about it, there's -- appropriate action. if my office doesn't know about it, we're dealing with it in 10 different days. we need do do things so we're not doing it 10 different ways. so we're trying to apply that

to our city government. >> i just want to ask you a question on this issue so instead of -- each -- each district station if they write the report assuming they write the report, it's going to right go right to you and possibly their captain as well. is that correct? >> we have a whole pro toe cal for coding -- arguing it will be -- we will be responsible for getting a copy to you. >> are you going to also develop a data base? >> well, we always have. i think as everyone knows, the role of this a.l.u. unit is evolving. and it started out as a licensing unit and you guys are obviously seeing me more and more here which means we're getting involved with entertainment because we recognize the overlap between alcohol and entertainment. we've always maintained a data

base to every report we send to abc. we do that so we can follow-up so when a commander says, hey, whatever happened with this case, we can look and say, it went to abc on this date. this was the disposition. we're now adding you guys into that pro toe cal and the city attorney's -- pro toe call and the city's office so that it will be a tool for all of us, instead of having me at the last minute call 10 different stations and find out what they did or didn't do. i don't see this being terribly daunting. it brings some continuity to the commission staff and us communicating on a more frequent and con sys tebt basis and having a paper trail of documents what went and what didn't. and again it's because we just want to make sure that the executive director has all the information we have. so that when they get a request and we get a request,

everything matches up and if they don't, there are simple reasons why they didn't. >> that's great. thank you. that sounds wonderful. >> absolutely. the other -- if i can just regress for a moment. i did want to acknowledge we do have commander mccakron. this will be a very painless transition. he's been around the club running southern station for the last 12 years. so he brings new energy, new innovation and he's got all kinds of great projects for me to be working on. i think we'll just keep zipping through this stuff. with that mind, i would like to speak briefly about the club training. this was something that started out earlier this year with the entertainment commission summit. it was followed up during the mayor's promoter meetings. it was stalled during the excitement of the giants and

some other events that came up. but next month we're going to start our first training session and it's going be pretty significant. it's going to move pretty quickly. what we'll do is pull resources from other stations and have other districts covering it. so we can train 20 or 30 people at time. we're going to focus on our entertainment area first, the downtown stations and south of market and all the obvious -- you know, we've got all the new ones coming up like the northern polk street and so on but eventually we'll do the whole city. but we're trying to do it in a priority -- i think during the month of february we'll have southern and central train. this is going to be a big win for everybody. you'll start seeing the benefits down the road. hopefully we will improve the quality. you'll see the nexus or the skull ppatory report. we did a version of it last

year at bay view station. it was very well received by the members. one thing i can tell you about police officers, it's not their lack of willingness that they don't want to do things, it's often a concern about experience and training and know-how and knowledge. and i think if we can give them the tools, i think we'll see what we're all looking for. so look forward to hearing more about that at the end of february. moving on, unless you have any comments about that? excellent. we're still very interested in working with the commission on the police department proposed mandated conditions. we know it's out there. we'd also welcome the opportunity because we know there is an opinion floating out there by the city's attorneys' office. i think that particularly compelling and significant. who are they going to apply to?

when will they apply? when won't they? the police department wasn't a part of that dialogue. i would welcome the opportunity perhaps you guys can confer with your city attorney if it's relevant that maybe we can have some kind of ad hoc committee with them and make sure that the intent of our conditions, the it's city attorney thoroughly understood and see if that has an impact, it may not. i'm not sure. >> just a question to staff. was not our city attorney instructed to confer with the police department city attorney on this issue. do you know off hand? >> i don't know the answer. i would imagine that that was the case. but again, i think what the inspector's asking is -- i mean and i'll bring that back and see. i think -- i think at the base of the request is that we bring it back to commission and that

we bring this commission back to life since it sort of went to pause. so as you know we need -- we need a 10-day notice because this is a proposed rule-making as it's called. we do know there is a request out there and i think i'm waiting for direction from the commission president as to what date so i can bask my way into the 10-day notice. >> so in the meantime, is it possible that staff can arrange for the entertainment commission city attorney, the police department city attorney to sit down and have a conversation about this, possibly staff can meet with the a a.l.u. staff and maybe all four entities can meet and have that discussion? >> yes. >> that would be great. that would be great. >> excellent.

and again, i think what i'm trying to convey is when this was created, for example, the police department city attorney did not participate in that. and we just want to make sure that the spirit and the intent and although it's your call to make, i'm not sure our intent's been convey and i'm concern that the opinions rendered are relevant. and that's all we're trying to get. to i did also want to comment and commend the vice chairman. we would strongly agree that a seven-day suspension is probably not going in the direction we all see this. i would welcome any resources we can provide to help bolster the case if you guys have shortcomings or need voids still, we're happy to give you

any information with the goings on there, not to mention that san francisco police officers were shot a at that premises late last year. it continues to be prom matic. on a personal note, i really agree with the vice chair joseph with regard to the operator's ability to operate the place. it does appear that he's losing control of it to a great extent. so i think a stronger message should be sent and we'll do anything we can to help you with that. and that's all i have. >> commissioners questions? commissioner miko. commissioner miko: thank you, commissioner. first of all, i should remind you that when you first presented the recommended commissions i had commented

that they had seem to be prepared in something of a vacuum. so i wanted to commend you for wanting to kind of spread this out, bring in some additional information and i look forward to another hearing on this. and would take a fresh look at what you're trying to accomplish. this entire a.l.u. process is -- is a good thing. and seems to be heading in a direction that's going to benefit both police department and the entertainment commission because we really are working for the same kinds of goals. so -- i only have good things to say. >> thank you. commissioner miko: with regard to the tempo club, i know we put new conditions on them at our last meeting including doubling the number of outside

cameras. i was curious -- i don't think anyone asked at the time. they had before we even did this, i believe it was nearly 30 cameras. >> that's my understanding as well. a significant number of cameras. commissioner miko: did they do any good? did they contribute to solving the homicide that was involved? were they sufficient to -- to, you know, generate usable evidence? >> now i understand the compliment you got me on because you're trying to get me reveal the homicide -- commissioner miko: i'm not trying to pry. if there's any new information -- >> here's what's relevant to your commission. numerous cameras were inoperable that night. this could play into this at some future point. although it had a certain gross

number of cameras. i've been told somewhere around 30, i do know some were not operable. it's still ongoing and that's the extent to what i can speak to it tonight. >> i'm not playing detective. i'm trying to judge the effectiveness of the kind of conditions, the tools that you were working with. i'm wondering how important outdoor cameras are. if they're not working, their obviously not much good. >> a lot of these cameras were on the interior. and as you know, the conditions we've been talking about collectively and in spirit, we've primarily focused often entry and exit points. so not entirely apples and apples here. many of theirs were on the interior and that was not necessarily something the police department was seeking to request you to impose. you no, if that had something we had, we would be happy to look that with you. or original conditions spoke to

entry and exit points. really not so much for the purpose of documents behavior but as much as letting people know that they're being documented going in and going out and that you now know -- you're a known comedy in that club -- commodity in that club at that time and perhaps an individual is going to be a lot more cognizant of their behavior and a lot more responsible. >> you know the recommended conditions i believe also included another condition imposing requirements for more outside cameras and when you argued this before the board of supervisors committee, i believe your point was that if these conditions had been in place when we were having trouble with club suede you may have gotten evidence which would have led to solving that crime. and so that's why i'm curious as to the effectiveness of

their outdoor cameras. >> right. and i -- i'm trying to recall that -- that -- i know it was. i'm just trying to put it together specifically. but i will tell you this, i still very strongly about that. i believe strongly and i think we will see as time goes on, that the more people feel documented the more they're going be accountable for their behavior and that is the spirit of what we're trying to do so i think the thing like the i.d. swipers and cameras or any formula thereof -- and i've said this before also that i think at some point club owners will have to make a decision possibly this commission may have to make a decision that when someone doesn't want their picture taken, doesn't want their i.d. swipe does a responsible operator want that person in their club? i mean, because at the owned of the day, we are talking both with your permit and with the abc sper mitt. it's a -- permit, it's a

privilege not a right. when that is abused, it can be taken away or restricted. >> we'll certainly have more conversation about this when those conditions have been dually noticed. >> any other questions, commissioners? thank you very, very much. >> thank you. >> by the way, do you check youtube? >> no. >> you should check youtube. >> why? >> because you never can tell what kind of videos go on youtube for these kinds of incidents. >> oh, i'm sorry -- i thought -- yeah. we certainly -- for -- for criminal investigations absolutely. you threw me off for a second there. >> sorry. >> it happens. it's a long day. >> all right. thank you very much. all right. a couple of comments on? yes, public comment. seeing none.

public comment is closed. commissioner row has? >> i just thought of something. if we go back to the report from the report from director cain just about the progress report on the neighbors summit, are you guys thinking about having officers at that -- >> is that a question for me? there's two heads nodding over there. >> heads don't get recorded. >> obviously, the neighbors summit is going to cover public safety because that's an issue obviously for neighbors. so absolutely we will involve as we always do sfpd at whatever level is appropriate. >> item number five hearing possible action regarding applications for permit under the jurisdiction of the entertainment commission. item a, ricardo vallejo at 3240 mission street, place of entertainment and billiard

parlor two tables. they do not have a place of entertainment. >> excuse me? >> place of entertainment and billiard bar? >> yes. >> there are two different permits so we put them on differently. staff accepted this application on december 21 of last year. this will application represents the third time in the entertainment commission's life that this location will be permitted and the applicant or the application indicates a desire to operate pretty much as it has been in the past as a nightclub with d.j., live music and dancing seven days a week. music is planned to begin at 8:00 p.m. according to the application and end at 1:30. the occupancy is 198 people.

there's an abc license at the premise. you'll see sfpd indicates that i have no objection and suggested three conditions that are attached lastly, important to note and i think we'll hear some of this from the folks here tonight. i know the applicant is here as well as the neighbor. the one big difference now from the previous application is the current presence of a large residential building at 555 bartlet street next to the venue. this was previously a large paint store as some of you might remember. two neighbors have been in communication with staff and staff facilitated a meeting with the applicant and the impacted neighbors that took place i believe last night on monday the 24th. on the memo according to the applicant's representative, i have listed the follow -- a set

of conditions that i believe the parties agreed on although, again, i'm going to read them outloud and you can hear from both sides if there are any amendments to this list of conditions. the first is that bottles will not be dumped between 6:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. let me preface this condition with the fact that sound concerns are mainly coming from activitys that are occurring in the rear door. there's a rear door that is the closest to the residences. and i think you'll hear more about that. so things that are happening outside through that rear door are what these are really affecting. so the issue of bottles being dumped from one container into another as you know is fairly loud. the doors will be closed at 10:00 p.m. unless there is an emergency or it needs to be