commissioner kingsley: and is there any overlap? >> i -- commissioner kingsley: the other, and my final question at this time, has to do with psychiatric component of this and diverting people to the appropriate mental health help and making it work so that it works for everybody, and i'm hearing a bit tonight around police officers having done that but the midnightal health facilities, they don't feel like they are adequately getting help. and then the other side of things that i was reading and the documentation that you

provided to us is that if it requires eight or 10 hours for a police officer to sit in an emergency room or sit with somebody they are bringing into a facility, they are going to find it more expedestrian dishes -- expedicious to put them in jail. you heard about the capacity of the public health facility. what kind of support do you need in terms of hours on coverage, and to make that part of this? it sounds very critical to this

working. >> if you are in a situation where you are suffering budget cuts it always feels very, very discouraging. as an outsider, i look at your services. there is a concern for the safety nets. i do think one of the things i recommend, there is a study committee that they will have to look at those committees, where does that provide a roadblock to you. if you have a roadblock in the system, you have to look at that. i hadn't heard yesterday from the individuals i talked to. they felt they had good turn-around times for the officers and indeed were doing a good job.

those things were very impressive to me. >> thank you both, very much. >> i want to thank the commissioners for discussing this important issue. i think one of the things that helps me understand, whether you go to the academy you have four to five months of training. this mental health tring training is just another class among many classes. you get out and do your other training, and then you get assigned to a station. what i understand you are saying, and maybe you can elaborate on this, if this is a three to five-year officer who has demonstrated judgment who wants to be part of the program, applies to the program, and selected to the program and then is given educational training and practical training, what you

are talking about is de-escalation, and it is an ongoing training. these people become specialists. they get a chance to learn and grow. and they have resources available to them. [applause] >> the short answer is yes. but you did really summarize the flavor of c.i.t. within the specialization. we are proud of all of our law enforcement officers. there is no question about it. i think it has been repeated by many of our citizens here

tonight and by others this is a special population requiring special needs and special services with dignity. i think the c.i.t. program is a platform. it is a platform for officers to recognize those special needs it is about officers committed to personal involvement. this is how we respond to crisis calls related to people. because a department joins in a community partnership that recognizes that within law enforcement uniform patroled services, for the most part we're on automatic with how we respond to burglary calls and robbery calls and how we

investigate an accident. but when we implement a c.i.t. program as a community program, that training officer that is oftentimes referred to as a rookie, this riding with possibly a c.i.t. officer, and they may say, why are you doing it this way? why are you going out of your area to be in charge of a particular call event related to mental illness, and the answer will be, this is a special call that requires special services. and that's my riddle. my riddle is to serve those that have special needs. i'm a c.i.t. officer because family members are defending on me, i'm a c.i.t. officer because the consumers are depending on me, i'm a c.i.t. officer because my fellow partners are depending

on me. that brings about ownership from an individual. when you have a platform where that officer can demonstrate ownership, that officer will perform. just like when you look at other specializations within the police department, those officers are very, very good. it is not just by happenstance. it is about the personal commitment, it is about the training that they receive, it is about the identity as to who they are. that makes the c.i.t. really something unique and really something special. we have specialization in everything. you look at doctors. we have many general

practitioner doctors, but we have specialization. we have attorneys with specialization. that specialization requires a uniqueness. that special ownership and that working with the community will bring about a different result. commissioner dejesus: when one of my questions earlier is, why can't they wait? i think you said for the patrol officer if he recognizes there is a metropolitanal illness, he can radio it in. tell us what happens -- if officer safety allows it, what happens. >> what you are describing is, an officer may be on a crisis call event that maybe the

dispatchers didn't realize he was related to mental illness. maybe the call information was not stuff enough to share or maybe the call person does president know the person has a mental illness, and that officer responds, and that officer responds to that particular crisis and understands, wait a minute, this appears to have a mental illness. what if the officers are trained in if the officer can radio back and request a c.i.t. officer. the c.i.t. officers, everyone knows everyone that works in their station, and they know they have c.i.t. officers.

many times the criticism is, why didn't you wait? the truth of the matter is, wait on what? many times officers realize what should i wait on? maybe a swat team. but that might be an hour. that might be too long of a wait. a c.i.t. officer is going to hear that request and respond. it is going to be a very brief wait. they will pull down because officers are saying, i need your help on this. now the officer is trying to slow things down because he or she knows they have a realistic opportunity.

commissioner dejesus: the other thing i wanted to talk to you about, is that when you talked about your training you have to talk about the community. i think you said in memphis there you have an african-american community and you needed cultural training for there as well. i don't know if you want to elaborate on that. >> one of the things -- one of our cultural adversity experts that works with us when he came to see our training, he said this is the best cultural training because it is embedded throughout the entire system. the officers when they are able to learn communication skills are able to say what goes on in a better way. so it is a critical element, and it is something embedded throughout the entire 48 lours.

commissioner dejesus: you said it is "free." can you explain how it is free? >> we are going to go to the providers that we know we have trust and caring and we're going to say, can you do this as your civic duty? that's the model we've carried throughout the nation. it is again that volunteer effort is what's critical. with the talent pool here you will have people that see it as their civic duty. there will be people that are part of the system that see it as a chance to impact on the officer. i saw it as a chance to impact on people bringing me twice the volume i have now it makes sense for me -- i won't be seeing individuals that may not reach

the care. there information went from two lines to two pages. so i think those things are critical and we see this as part of our duty. that's something i don't think you will have trouble finding. commissioner dejesus: i talked to chief godown, and whoever is in charge of this, embracing this, taking it on as a project and keeping it going, you know, what it takes from the command staff down to make this a successful program. >> it is critical. it quone sides with that newer turring. when i said there are differ

levels of nurturing. from the inside, i told you the chief said, make this happen. i had to understand this from a broader perspective. this helped me bring this into place to let me understand what some of the issues were. it was something i had missed. the people were very skeptical. even though we had people that

volunteered, they were saying, i'm not sure about this. so they were somewhat skept -- skeptical. but they said lieutenant cochran is part of this. he's going to watch out for us. and i made that commitment to them. i was going to other view the issues being presented to them so that the training met their needs as a law enforcement. they were nervous at the -- this was the start of the program. they said, we don't want this to interfere with other issues that have to do with officer safety. i said, we understand. officer safety is very important. i did things to start off. i did a c.i.t. newsletter. this was in 1988. we didn't have computers. a little typist, typing away for

many hours. and i was trying to share stories with what other c.i.t. officers were doing. we also introduced letters of comendations. many times these letters are heroic of sometimes tragic events. i took just the day-to-day interactions with our officers, with consumers in crisis, and the successful stories of de-escalating the crisis from anybody getting hurt. i would write up the things, i would pass it to the chief, and we would compliment that the officers safely created this by using verbal dee de-escalation and the chief would sign bhi way of letter of com endation. -- comendation.

i think this was a cultural change, and i think talking to people, we wanted to emphasize the positive. we wanted to emphasize the nurturing. we wanted to emphasize how special that officer was to do that. that leadership had to go out into the mental health partners to bring the partners into together in a better understanding. we would have mental heelt health professionals ride with law enforcement to make sure they understood our role as law enforcement officers. the person that is a coordinator, he needs to have a voice and resonate into a command staff level in that where it signifies to the

supervisors and to the other men and women of the department that this is a new direction. that person has a big responsibility. he has a responsibility to know that it works. so they have to have a clear understanding of the organization especially within uniform patrol. they have to have the skills used to bring people together and a way of discussing these issues. there are challenging issues. we would interact with the dispatchers. we were fortunate the dispatchers fell under the command of our police chief, our director, which was helpful. many times i was in discussion

with the supervisors of the communication. it was interactions without the department and making sure that the c.i.t. program fit within our organization and we would come together as a law enforcement family to make sure that we were fulfilling the mission of not only our chief, but we were fulfilling the mission of what the mayor and our community said we need today do. >> i hear you saying the change of culture is the change of culture within the department and rewarding people to control the situation when it comes to the mentally ill to having compassion, empathy, and confidence to work toward a resolution. >> and i work hard to link officers with family members. they had a role to play. i work hard to link them with family members and consumers to make sure we have an interaction

not just during crisis events but also a relationship of understanding that we're all part of the community. >> i want to ask, the program that you instituted in memphis, the c.i.t. officers, do they have tasers? >> when we first started, we did. then there were some issues in the very early -- a chemical agent came into the department. that first brand of chemical agent had an alcohol base which was a conflict between tasers which uses electrical component and an alcohol base. so if you are not careful, if you have an individual that may have an application of a chemical spray on their clothing and face you could have a burn effect on that. so you do not need that kind of

conflict in law enforcement. clearly those things had to come about of change. but our department sought other avenues with regard to less lethal equipment. the things i expressed to you has all been changed. the alcohol-based is now been changed. they don't have that on the chemical agents. so the tasers are different from what we had. we were sending them off and we were broke yefpble we had people that were overseeing the tasers. they were unhappy with it. plus, the result of the taser was not what it was reporting to be. again, this was in 1988, and we replaced them with an impact

launcher that is often referred to as an sl-6. that's a decision that needs to be made internally through investigation of each department's choice. the only thing i could comment we debt had a policy and a good policy, good training is the course of directions to follow. oftentimes if people are looking for absolutes, and there is no absolutes in less lethal equipment. >> but right now c.i.t.'s >> in memphis we did not. we did not go back to the tasers. and we're meeting the needs with -- we actually have three loflse of less lethal equipment within the context of the impact

weapon. they we have a chemical spray and we have a chemical foam. the chemical foam is 10% agent. i'm not sure of the percent of the agent we're using in the spray now. commissioner dejesus: i want to thank all of you again. i want to thank the commissioners who were out there. i want to thank you for coming and the community for coming. it was a wonderful presentation. i know it is way past your bedtime, but it was very en lightening. thanks a lot. president mazzucco: commissioner slaughter. slaught slaught thank you. -- commissioner slaughter: thank you. thank you for your comments.

thank you to the moms. i have small achildren. i hear amoms speak, and i -- i hear moms speak and i start to cry. dr. due pobt -- dr. dupont you talked about the way the model has changed. i wonder if you could tell us how flex flexibility is important, if it is, to you in how it is implemented in a particular city, and how the city has to analyze what they do . we >> we do see basics ever what we do need to do there. i think it is a critical element. the specialization of the officer, the ability of the officer to be on the scene to

respond is important. you think you-all have different needs. i would think homeless emphasis would be one you woo want to take a more intense look at and one we are doing ourselves in memphis. it would be critical to constantly change the model. >> seeing how you implemented in memphis and how it has been implemented in other cities around the country, what are two or three things that -- key steps for us if we're going to mention this model and endorse it. not only just today, tomorrow, next week, but next sure to make sure this implementation is a success? >> i think you have set the taupe about community ownership.

i think that is a critical element. what we're finding in communities is that's not just a problem, it is a police problem. it is our problem. it is a community problem. we want to tackle this together. i think that's a critical element. networking is important to people. they talk about that. if there is not that ability to trans transcend and be able to deal with different agencies, that won't lep with either. the other thing i heard is that officers get discouraged. i think that's true. if you look at the data, it is important that people have hope. >> i think that last point that you made, dr. dupont is critical . the point you made about networking, is you had an

opportunity to speak. how important is more than just training? we have had nearly a thousand officers who have gone through levels of mental health training. i would imagine we will have to determine how much we can rely on the training that's already happened versus what we have to do that is important. if you come out of a 40-hour class you talk about not just finishing, but going to something. >> if the officers don't identify they are part of a bigger team, i don't think they will have the same application. if you not changing behavior, you haven't done a blot with the training. the question is, can you, reinforce that the officers feel they have an important role in this. i have seen that, to give them a chance to be recognized as

leaders. commirgs slaughter: and -- commissioner slaughter: you have had a very busy two days here. you have had a chance to walk the city a bit, and i wonder if you could see -- share your opinions. >> the homeless population that i saw here was i -- a much younger homeless population than i've seen in other cities. i think that's different. i think that requires a special and unique response. i think you-all are facing unique challenges that would be important to see how we can adapt those systems. i think that would be one of the things i would respond to. i was impressed with the officers i spoke w i think those

officers are really to be depend commended. commissioner slaughter: in your view, again, seeing how this has been implemented, models implemented across the country in different departments, different sizes, different issues. what is a reasonable time we as a commission should swect this working group should -- can expect it to be reasonably imfleemented in our city? -- implemented in our city? hugh do we measure success? how do we judge results? what's a reasonable time and how do we make sure we are, as a body, making sure we are monitoring and doing the best we can. >> every commy