store and bought the cigarettes. i forgot to check the i.d. one week. now, when i see a young girl or a young boy, i checked the ied -- the id. i remember. deputy city attorney: dr. ojo. dr. ojo: good evening, commissioners. before i proceed, i was made to understand that the regional police report -- the a regional

police report -- the original police report was on a different date. if you're willing to accept it. if not -- the vice -- president goh: what you are saying is that police report is correct? if there are no comments, i will make the motion to accept the corrected typographical error on the declaration. deputy city attorney: any public comment on that notion? seeing none, secretary pacheco, could you call the roll, please, on except in that declaration? secretary pacheco: [reading

roll] the vote is 4-0 to accept the declaration. deputy city attorney: do you have anything further? ok, questions or comments for dr. ojo? thank you. is there any public comment on this item? ok, seeing none, ms. fung, do

you have anything more to say? if you do, you need to come forward. you have four minutes to speak. >> because my small business, the business is very long because i need the money. we pay for a lot of bills, and i need the money for my daughter to go to this school, a lot of things to do. thank you. i wanted to check the i.d. right now, really, really important, ok? thank you. deputy city attorney: dr. ojo, anything further? dr. ojo: this is a very

difficult one for me. unfortunately, it is true that she did sell, and i am going to leave the decision to the board. deputy city attorney: commissioners, the matter is submitted. president goh: commissioners? commissioner fung: i guess if we're going to be consistent, the case before, we reduced it to 15 days, and i am tempted to do the same thing here. vice president garcia: i would support that. i think the person who sold the cigarette was unaware of what

all of the proper procedures were. i think she has been made aware of what the proper procedures are. commissioner peterson: i would disagree. at least in the prior case, there was an attempt and a review. there was not even an attempt to look at the i.d. i think someone who has a daughter herself should be aware of the danger, and i think 15 days is too lenient. i would think 20 days, but a lack of attempted to even apply with meat -- the rules is concerning. president goh: i agree with the sentiments expressed by

commissioner peterson. i would in this case, however, support a reduction to 15 days because, and i am a convinced commissioner peterson by this, because, nothing to deal with this department, but making the mistake in the declaration -- i am sorry. it was not the department. it was the inspector. and to have the incorrect date is i think is very problematic and potentially in other circumstances fatal two other lawsuits, so for that reason, i would go with the decrease to 15 days. commissioner fung: do you have a motion? president goh: i so move. deputy city attorney: mr. pache

co, could you call the roll on that, please? secretary pacheco: so, president goh, your motion is to change it to 15? president goh: correct. secretary pacheco: [reading roll] commissioner hwang is absent. the vote is 4-0. the appeal is modified to 15 days. thank you. deputy city attorney. -- deputy city attorney: we can move on to item number eight.

mr. pacheco, you can call it when you are ready. secretary pacheco: item number eight, 10-141, abdelhalim fadi, 912 geneva avenue, a suspension for selling tobacco to minors, fd-10-49. deputy city attorney: you have -- minutes. >> indicating he sold tobacco to a minor on september 30.

this is the only incident of a violation for mr. fadi, and as you can tell from the name of the business, "house of cigarettes," 90% of this business is cigarettes. he does sell some telephone cards, as well. he has no record of a prior violation. the circumstances surrounding the sale is that the person came into the store in mr. fadi did not check the i.d. he just returned from a trip to jordan because his mother is ill there, and he was jack led -- jet lagged. he was approached for the violation. he is responsible for the support of his family, his wife

and two children. he does have an adult child who works in the store during his absence in jordan. i would urge you to consider some of the information that i have learned about this type of prosecution in the jason county of san mateo where these matters are prosecuted through the criminal courts, and this is often reduced pursuant to the appropriate penal code section. i.s.f. several conversations -- i have had several conversations. the statistics in terms of people using cigarettes have dropped mainly because of the education and high schools and grammar schools in that county. i was also referred for the

statistics on the dropping use of tobacco in oakland, and i would urge the appeal board also and the department of health to access that website for what programs have been most successful in reducing smoking among young people. i am also requested part of closed session to a lease look at the identification of the minor to see if that was not an element in this case, even though their requested to look at the i.d., mr. fadi did not do that. he is available to answer any of your questions. commissioner fung: counselor,

either you can answer this, or miss fadi -- or mr. fadi can answer this, if this is his primary product, what has he put in place to make sure these kinds of things do not happen? what have you done to ensure that you do not sell to minors? >> it is only me on the store. i do have one of my boys sometimes to help me, like to give me a break for an hour or so, and i watched carefully, and i do want to say i am sorry -- i watched carefully region -- i watch carefully. i have two young children, and i

would not want anyone to sell them cigarettes. i was coming back, and my boy took over for me for one week until i came back, and i even told the officer, and it. i am sorry. i even told him the story, -- and i told him i am sorry. commissioner fung: how long have you noticed store? >> three years. -- how long have you noticed door? >> three years. -- how long have you owned this store? >> three years. that is all i can say. thank you very much.

president goh: i have a question for a counselor. -- for the counselor -- attorney. you wanted to see the i.d. in closed session. >> i had requested to see the i.d. prior to tonight's, and the city attorney did not respond to me at all, -- prior to tonight. president goh: but you alleged that he did not ask for the id, so that is not an issue? >> well, it is, it is not an issue. obviously, this report indicates that mr. fadi did not ask to see the identification of the minor. however, what that person looks

like is another case, and i wanted to review what the person looked like, whether they looked like they were under 18 or not. president goh: i see. but you do have the police report? >> yes, i have the police report. deputy city attorney: dr. ojo. dr. ojo: the hell could is very clear. it allows the department to suspend for up to 45 days. in this case, 25 days. i am sure during initial hearing they listened very

carefully to the argument of the operator, in the decision was based on that fact. -- and the decision was based on that fact. i would respectfully ask the board to uphold the department of. we think it is very reasonable, it is not excessive. thank you. vice president garcia: dr. ojo, i do not remember if it was this case the one that came up before. there was a comment that dph,

the department of public health, pretty much just shovels people through, that one size fits all, and that no extenuate circumstances are considered -- no extenuating circumstances are considered. >> that is not true. i think probably about four years ago, that might have been true. it has changed. they have gone through a lot of changes internally, and currently, i do attend some of those hearings. there is testimony of the

operators, and from time to time, they do -- he does consider the factors that lead to the sale of the cigarettes, but he tries to be consistent. i remember two cases. you could tell where one could not understand a lot of all. -- did not understand a lot region -- did not understand the law at all. vice president garcia: that was a situation, where every case was like the same case, but

you're telling us that is not the case, that each case is decided on its own merit. >> yes. vice president garcia: thank you. deputy city attorney: is there any public comment? you will have the opportunity to speak in rebuttal. commissioners, you of the decision on whether or not you want to go into closed session -- you have the decision. i am inclined to make the motion. it is curious to me. i am respectful of counsel's argument, if we do not have a full calendar tonight, so i am -- argument, it and we do not have a full calendar tonight, so i am inclined -- i am respectful of councils arguments, in an but -- note argument --

argument, and we do not have a full calendar tonight. deputy city attorney: i suppose we could go into closed session. commissioner fung: just to confirm, it is exactly the same copy? deputy city attorney: it is the same copy. president goh: the same one. so we do not need to go into closed session then? that is great. we can just show that one. deputy city attorney: we will allow a minute for that process to happen.

so we can move into a bottle. -- into rebuttal. >> the photograph does look

young, however, i could not read on the driver's license itself when that photograph was taken. it was at least two years old. i would like to point that out, because the person in the folks in very young, -- the person in the photo looks very young. so i would again ask the board to consider a reduced suspension. i was at the public hearing, and there were somewhere around 11 or 13 tobacco's sales to minor cases on the same day as the hearing for mr. fadi, and each and every one of them received a 25-day suspension, regardless of their circumstances, including the woman who spoke before, i guess it was items

seven, at the appeal board tonight. everyone got the same sentence -- i guess it was item seven. again, there are no prior violations. mr. fadi had just returned from a long trip. he was jet lagged. over 90% of his business is the sale of cigarettes. so i again ask the board to modify this to what i had requested in my brief. perhaps a few days or a fine, or at least the 15 days that had been granted to the prior appellant. >> yes, i really want to say sorry again.

it looks like a baby picture. to me, it it looked over 18 because i had a lot of business at the cash register -- to me, it looked over 18. i just want to ask you if you can help me out and pay a fine. if i close, the i have family to support, and and it is only me -- note -- to support, if it is only me. if i cannot so cigarettes, -- sell cigarettes, i have to close

the store. glbt city attorney -- deputy city attorney: thank you. vice president garcia: the driver's license, i thought you got back at 16 -- ... at 16. -- got that at 16. that is an id that you can no longer get, a driver's license at 16? it is an interesting situation, not that i think it would change one way or another, but do we know when that picture was

taken? dr. ojo: [inaudible] vice president garcia: if it is two years old, we may be looking at a very different woman. dr. ojo: commissioners, if i may, the picture is very representative of how she looks like, because the same was used in another case. last week when i was here, i had that picture, a full figure picture of the individual, but i could not presented because they

requested a and i.d. -- requested an i.d. vice president garcia: so it is a very recent picture? dr. ojo: yes. president goh: dr. ojo, in cases where how the person appears as likely to come up, it might make sense to have the photo and a low as the closed session in order to see it. -- and allow us a closed session. >> i think it is an issue. he has admitted to the sale of cigarettes to a minor. however, to some degree, the factual elements of the cases what did the person actually look like, and that potion -- person in the photograph looks like a baby.

it looks like a very young person. if we were in court, it would not be admissible in its current condition. i understand that that is not the objective here. but in fairness and the understand the facts and understand someone who had been traveling and had been suffering from jet lag, that is what i am asking to have considered. commissioner fung: when she turns 18. if we were to reduce this to 15 days, then we would be perpetuated in a performance --