terabell station's lunar safety fair. and i attended. and wanted to report back on that. i was -- it was a gorgeous day. the block was cut off as well as the parking area. and a lot of the activities of the police department were very present for families. and captain sanford and lieutenant mar as well as a number of other folks were responsible for putting this together. and it was just a really terrific, festive, informal occasion for police, staff and the community to mix. and i personally had an opportunity to speak with three co-chairs of safety watch in the community and talk about what they were doing on their respective blocks. in terms of working with the

police department on neighborhood crime. and so that was very worthwhile. for me as a commissioner to hear that. second item, some weeks ago, we addressed when chief goscone was with us our need to revamp our discipline case process in a large sort of way. and i wanted a report back on that. commissioner hammer, at this point, we are working together on that. and i met with the city attorneys this last week on that to get some background and foundational parameters around it. and the next meeting is going to be with o.c.c. director hicks. and just want to keep you informed that that activity is going on out there. and, you know, have a more substantive conversation when it's appropriately on the agenda for discussion. president mazzucco: thank you

very much. we appreciate that more than anything. commissioner hammer. commissioner hammer: i want to thank commissioner slaughter and chan, the three of white house were at the last of the community forums woo held. not to say any input we had, all of us have talked with different communities throughout san francisco and will continue to do so until the end of the process. but an incredibly impressive group of folks came out on a rainy night, 50 or 60 folks and not just the usual suspects. the most remarkable thing was a group of young people who came, kids. about 10 of them from a youth center in bernall heights. a little ways away from the center. and they spoke out about what they wanted to achieve, their good and bad experience with cops very extraordinary one was how police officers had reached out to them and the captain had reached out to them. you couldn't get a more raw unfiltered voice than teenagers coming forward and speaking about what they wanted in san

francisco and how they wanted to be seen as youth in san francisco. i was incredibly moved, commissioner chan connected with them especially well because of her work with juveniles and youth. but it was very moving. and the second one was at your suggestion, commissioner mazzucco, after we met with the employer groups there was a bit of a disappointing turnout. i'm not -- perhaps is the time of day and the notice we gave it wasn't good. so commissioner mazzucco suggested we go out to stagses. we went to three different police stations before the midnight watch. and with nobody else around, i can report on my station, lieutenants blaine was and i knew him from when i was a him side -- when i was a homicide investigator and 18 cops in a room after roll call and all sat down and for 30 minutes spoke their piece. and think it was a terrific idea and i want to commend you, president mazzucco, for dragging us out at 9:00 night

after another meeting. neighborhood we got a real unvarnished look for them and what i heard over and over, and i went -- they're looking for somebody to provide leadership and consistency, both to stay with san francisco for a good number of years in the job. and to give them direction now. and as the san franciscan that resonated with me. and also to convince them because it's the truth that there is no fix and nobody has made their mind up that we really want to hear people's comments. so until this process is over, everyone and all of san francisco should come forward to these commissioners and speak out on what they want and their input. things that are said are making a big difference because if were you in our private meetings and you hear those questions echoed again and again. i thank my fellow commissioners and commissioner mazzucco for that idea. president mazzucco: thank you. just getting back, i had a good 30 to 40 officers at northern station. and they clearly spoke their mind. had some great ideas and we're talking officers that ranged in

age from probably 23 to 50. and they're all dedicated. they love this department. they love seeing the commissioner there. they watch us. they watch what we do. they say they get a lot of conflicting messages. they get too many on a daily basis confuse on what to do and they want strong leadership. and they all love doing their job and all dedicated to the community. it's amazing. and interesting fact and that midnight shift at northern station, i was told that most if not all of the officers still live in san francisco. which was a really nice thing to see. it's rare. so great. any -- oh, commissioner chan. commissioner chan: this is a good time for us to report back on what we learned from the bayview community listening session. and the first time we really have been able to report back on the sessions, all different sessions with the exception -- we talked about the outer sunset one so this is good that we're having this brief conversation. so commissioner dejesus, vice

president marshall, and myself, we went to the bayview -- two weeks ago, last week, time has gone by fast. and it was a decent turnout. we owe a thank you to the worldwide produce market i believe that brought really nice fresh fruit for everybody. so we had an extra treat at our session. it was at the southeast community center i believe. and some of the feedback we got, some folks in the department, some outside, so there was both of those viewpoints. the youth issue, and a chief that knows how to work with youth. and marlene tran was there and viz valley and broke up the issue of bringing up language access and not many that were english proficient in our sgses and that's a good priority -- in our sessions and that's a good priority to have. and the -- former chief gascone developing, continuing that

work is important. also, a chief that's accessible to the community, an open door policy. someone who sees community policing as a partnership between community groups, residents and departments and not something the department has to handle. so those are some of the things i heard. a quick not on the lgbt center, i did love talking with the bernall heights youth and also i found it very -- it was very moving that we had a lot of testimony from lgbt officers who have gone through a lot and they talked about the shifts they've seen through being in the department for multiple decades and how in the beginning there was a lot of homophobia and they were very honest about that. and how that has improved but there's still more improvement to be made and they would like to see a chief who is culturally competent and also values the lgpt members of the department. who bring a lot. and also that they are not just valued but also -- that they can elevate beyond the sergeant and lieutenant -- to the sergeant and lieutenant

ranking. so that was an important piece that we got in that meeting. anything to add, anything i left out? ok. thank you. president mazzucco: again, thank you. i should tell the commissioners have been very busy. three community meetings and been to stations. and we're taking this process very seriously. and it's an eye opener, we've heard some interesting things. so we're taking everything to heart that we've learned that's new. and everything that we learn during the 53 meetings we did 19 months ago. so there's a lot of input. and i think one captain had a great quote in the paper today. he said that everything in san francisco is somewhat controversial. whether you're picking a chief or removing a tree from the median barrier in the street. san francisco will get involved. commissioner hammer. commissioner hammer: i wanted to echo what you said as a relatively new member of the commission. three of us, commissioner dejesus, commissioner marshall, you went to 53 meet, and the knowledge you gained is in our rooms and our confidential

conversations so it's 53 meetings plus three more plus employee group meetings. all the wealth of everything you folks and the hard work you did last time and i appreciate that is coming into the meetings and coming through in our interviews. so it's a collection of two years of work of community outreach. so thank you for the work you did. president mazzucco: thank you all. any public comment regarding line items 4-a, b and c? ms. gross. >> hello. my name is barbara gross. i would accept the p.o.a. rap to get up here, first, because i really don't understand why they have not tried to tear apart the police executive research forum and the commanders and how many deputy chiefs and how many assistant chiefs. all these are new positions since i worked for the friendly police department. and now we don't have money for new recruits.

gee, i wonder why we don't have money for new recruits. how much are each one of these high-paid, overstuffed executive police officers paid to sit in their office and the little police officer who's out on the beat can't get hired to go out and do some work. i'm a normal citizen of this fine city and i would really like my protection. i am here to see that my protectors are protected. that means get rid of the high-priced, overstuffed brats that wasn't here when i was working for the friendly san francisco police department and been out since 1976. gee whiz. we didn't have commanders then. i think that there was one assistant deputy chief. a supervising captain for day watch. oh, probably three, because of

-- three watches. i wonder why we don't have money to be in a new police recruit class. do you need help with bookkeeping? i was a book keeper for a catholic church. say hey, i'm willing to get in the middle and roll up my sleeves because you have a problem with your bookkeeping. it's a little guy at the bottom that doesn't cost as much as the big guy at the top that sits in the back. attending meetings. and not doing a whole lot of much. and my backing is on the police department more than it is for a bunch of lawyers to think they're better than cops. excuse me. there's no police officer on the commission, just a bunch of lawyers. yoo-hoo. i want my protection. and i'm here to make noise to make sure my fellow san franciscans are protected. like i would like my

protection. thank you so very much. and thank you my fellow -- this is the land. free, the brave, and the bold, the foreigners seem to have called it land of the free, oh, oh, free for the taking. not my house any time soon, thank you. president mazzucco: thank you. any further comment? hearing none, we call next item. >> emit number five is routine administrative business, 5-a., commission announcements and 5-b is scheduling of items identified for consideration at future commission meetings. president mazzucco: with reference to commission announcements, i want to state that i unilaterally agreed to tentatively agree or agreed to a meeting with the board of supervisors public safety committee next week and a joint meeting regarding the definition of community policing. and commissioners, they don't feel comfortable doing that at this time. there's some chatter about whether or not we should wait until we have a new permanent chief in place.

and quite frankly, some of us work monday nights, tuesday nights and wednesday night of this week. next week, we have interviews scheduled for next tuesday evening. we have interviews scheduled for next saturday. this commission has gone week to week with many different hearings. we've been busy with some very important issues. and we're in the middle of the best issue we're going to deal with. and in my opinion, it's premature to have a meeting with the board of supervisors that i agreed to which i have the authority to do that. but i should have run it by the other commissioners. so i've heard some concerns about that. my suggestion is that we move to postpone that meeting for about three or four weeks until we have a new chief in place. and that we can move forward and work on a very important definition of community policing and deal with our community policing boards. so that's just my suggestion. i'm going to turn to commissioner chan. commissioner chan: thank you for that. speier campos did also reach -- speier campos did also reach out to me and let knee know about this joint meeting idea.

i was very reseptemberive -- receptive to it. and i've been c.c.ed on a lot of community organizations have been invited. so we have to balance that interest also. and just recognize that. that they've done quite a bit of outreach for next week. also, this is partially an announcement, the speier campos yesterday -- supervisor campos announced an ordinance to define what community policing is and comesas a surprise -- comes as a surprise not a definition of community policing. the proposed ordinance, the definition sounds receipt on the money to me. community policing is a partnership with the communities and as you see the language, you probably agree with most of it. i believe that he has six other co-sponsors so there's seven supervisors that are supporting the introduction of that ordinance. so the likelihood of it passing is quite high. so we do need to discuss this

since it votches the commission. i was going to ask to agendaize for the joint hearing just a very simple resolution that i already have drafted that i'm going to pass out tonight in preparation for the future hearing. that just says that we are going to support -- we urge that this ordinance is passed so it defines what community policing is. president mazzucco: i agree. where just asking for a postponement so we have things worked out on the next chief front and all that. commissioner slaughter. commissioner slaughter: thank you, president mazzucco. and thank you, commissioner chan, for your comments. i second your motion, commissioner mazzucco, to put the hearing off just a few weeks. i think community policing is such an important part of what this department should be about. and is about. and i think the idea that you would do this meeting without -- without knowing who the chief is going to be for the -- at least next year and hopefully for a great deal longer, community policing just like mental health depends on leadership from the top.

and i just think waiting two or three weeks until we got -- at least we know who will be in there for quite some time would be really critical to making it as effective as it can be. first news with respect to the second comment you made commissioner chan about an ordinance regarding community policing being introduced at the board. this is the first i've heard about it. a little bit of a surprise that they wouldn't reach out to the police commission in the first instance. but that's obviously the board's prerogative. obviously -- i'm all for defining community policing and getting this commission on board with it but we would have to see it before considering your resolution, commissioner chan. eye said it. i support moving it off until we got the loordship in place that can drive home -- leadership in place that can drive home this important topic. president mazzucco: dr. marshall. vice president marshall: i would agree, but most my

biggest issue is the process. normally when we talk about having a joint hearing, we massage that in here. we've had joint meetings previously with the -- with the board, committees, with public housing. we sort of knew going in why. so i would -- i might -- not even sure what we want next week anyway to be honest with you. and then commissioner chan, the things you're talking about i wouldn't even know what that is about next week. the process has been for us to agree as a commission to move forward on -- to talk about it here, we did that with the entertainment commission. we talked about doing that. that's as big of an issue for me as it is for community policing as we're trying to pick a new chief. it almost may be spinning our

wheels because i know a lot of questions will come up for a commaou chief in that particular area. -- for a new chief in that particular area. for those reasons i would think this is not the best time to do that. president mazzucco: thank you, dr. marshall. commissioner dejesus. commissioner dejesus: i was approached and did hear about the joint meeting. and i thought we did talk about it here. and i thought we did agree to go. but maybe i misunderstood that. and i certainly think we should go. we put a lot of money into community policing survey a couple of years ago. and i wanted -- one of the things that survey said is you aren't going to have community policing unless you define it. when i read the ordinance, i was actually surprised that all this time we've never defined it. i thought we had. everyone has an idea of community policing. that's the problem we have in this precinct is everyone's idea is different. and this is something that i believe the study says it has to be from the command staff down and has to be embraced and has to be defined. without defining it, there is no community policing. so i was a little shocked that

after all this time, we haven't defined it. and i read the ordinance, it talks about what community policing is. it's a philosophy. and what it includes is things that we talked about before. foot patrols, formal process, which community members can interact with personnel, community building activities. it actually just defines it. and i think it's perfectly -- it doesn't matter who our chief is. we -- the policy for this department, we embrace the community policing report when it came out. and actually, i have no -- i don't know how it languished all this time. and we never really defined it. i think we should participate in the definition of defining it and it really doesn't matter who selected the chief. one of the goals that we've been looking for is a police officer who -- a chief of police who will enforce community policing and it's our role to define it. so i think we should do it. president mazzucco: thank you. commissioner slaughter. commissioner slaughter: just to respond to that, because i do

respect commissioner dejesus, your view. but obviously no one is suggesting that we're not having a meeting. i think we need to have one. but putting off two or three weeks i think makes sense. especially -- you sort of said something you said really struck me, and it's important from the command staff on down. and i couldn't agree more. and that's why i think you would want to have -- it's all about leadership. it's all about getting buy-in from all levels of the department. yes we set the policy. but it's -- it's always been my view that it's much better to have a policy that there's buy-in and embraced by all levels and that starts at the top. and i think we're -- i think -- we wouldn't be as efficient and we wouldn't get the results that we really deserve if we don't have our leaders. and i also agree with commissioner marshall that i'm surprised this has come up. and some of this ordinance is getting passed around to some members of the commission and not others. i'm not sure why. but i think a short delay makes

sense. president mazzucco: commissioner dejesus wanted to respond briefly. commissioner dejesus: i do appreciate your concerns, too. we got this hot of the press. and it's yesterday. and it is going to be in your packets. i just want to say it's very difficult to organize a community. and i understand that the supervisor has -- and many community groups will be there. and they're looking forward to talking to the public policy or to his committee, to our committee, and defining this. and i really think postponing it is easy for us to do. but i think it's very complicated when awful lot of groups who are coming and we're going to meet on the 9th anyway. and whether we agree with it or not or vote with it or not at least we can have a community presentation and talk about the ordinance. we'll have it on friday. so i really think we should consider going. president mazzucco: thank you. commissioner kingsley. commissioner kingsley: i would like to support postponing it. and for this reason. these reasons actually. apparently this commission has

discussed in depth at a time that a number of us commissioners weren't on the commission. community policing. so we've got a little catchup to do internally to find out what the thinking was of the commission at that time. so that's -- that's one part of it. the second part is i'm grateful that the board of supervisors is looking at this. and that this is important to them. because it is of extremely important issue to the entire city. but the police commission is absolutely central and pivotal to community policing. and i would just really hope going forward that we could be part of the planning process with the community when we reach out and when we try to have legislation passed or resolutions passed that affect the definition of community policing that's going to affect our department, our commission,

and our city. and i think we internally need to become better organized so that we can engage in this process in a more meaningful way. and going a step further with this, it is a leadership buy-in. and movement down. but i also see it and maybe this is where i need to be, educated a little bit more, on some of the standards of community policing as we're talking about it. i also see it as a grassroots up. i think the community needs to be involved in and engaged in this. and i realize that that's part of what's going on with the board of supervisors. and i think that we as a commission need to do that ourselves. and we put in place the start of community advisory boards. there's san francisco safe neighborhoods. there are a lot of people out in the community that we can draw upon. and i think that we need to do that. and we need to d it of course work with the board of

supervisors. we need to take a very pro-active leadership role ourselves as a commission. and so therefore i second postponing this conversation and getting a better grasp on this ourselves. president mazzucco: commissioner chan. commissioner chan: i'm going to maybe flip orders with commegser -- i've already spoken once -- with commissioner -- i've already spoken once. president mazzucco: go ahead. >> i should explain a little bit more. i thought that hillary ronan who is a legislative aide had worked out to all the commissioners and we were c.c. aide and if i'm wrong then i'm wrong. i did bring copies of the ordinance that was introduced yesterday and will pass it out. also the one sentence or three sentences or resolution that i drafted that i want to invite everyone on this commission to co-sponsor if you're interested and give you time to think about that. because it's certainly -- i think it much better coming from more of us than less of us. and in terms of the timing just

you have a sense of while we're discussing this, part of the reason this state was chosen as they wanted to choose a date before march 15. because they knew that was hour deadline for submitting it to the mayor. and they wanted to highlight for us the importance of community policing before we make that big decision. so that is the -- that's from my understanding, the reason for the timing. the community advisory board, i think they've been invited to this meeting next week. and i'm pretty sure they are. and they're going to be ready to make a number of presentations and discussions. there's been a lot of work put into it on the supervisors' end and up to this commission to decide what we want to do but i wanted to give you all that information. president mazzucco: commissioner hammer. commissioner hammer: thank you, president mazzucco. listen, if i had the power to come up with our schedule the last thing i would do is schedule another meeting next week. because of the chief's selection process. i took this oath. we all did. i guess we took it really seriously because we spend about four or five nights a week doing it, day times and

meetings, most behind closed doors and i respect my colleagues for that work. so if i could do it or persuade supervisor campos and it worked well for him having set this in motion then i would support the motion. but for good or bad commissioner mazzucco you did speak on our behalf and you did it with good intention. if you messed it up, you messed up, we all make mistakes and you're forgiven. president mazzucco: thank you. >> having spoken for the commission and supervisor campos having expended great energy and based on word of the commission, having set up this meeting, right or wrong, at this point, folks are lined up for it. so i would in this case defer to the supervisor campos. if he wishes to put it off in light of the commission's incredibly busy schedule, i think that would be fine. but having set it up and done this work, i think it would be a mistake to cancel it after having him relied on president mazzucco's representation. so i would oppose the motion for that reason. and the second reason is a practical one, folks.

the board of supervisors has the power to pass real laws. and they could proceed without us. and it is up for discussion that week so unless they change that item, that discussion will go forward. if we decided not to go, it would go forward without us and they may pass laws without us. and we in fact have the most expertise in this area. so again, since i don't have the power to pick the schedule that's going to happen, i guess my fifth night of the week at the board of supervisors talking about what i think is among the most important issues we do and not just the community policing but real community policing involving the community and having foot patrols and all the rest of it. president mazzucco: thank you. dr. marshall. vice president marshall: i think i stated in my objection it's just not the process that we normally use. i would be going in there cold. and be driven by -- i don't think it's fair to this commission at all.

when we've done this in the past, when we did it on public safety, we read the report and all briefed and all discussed it and we went in there as a body with a common body of knowledge. for me, i know you made a commitment. and some people got something, some people didn't get something. that's not the way we've generally done things. particularly of this magnitude in the past. i would feel very uncomfortable doing it. president mazzucco: commissioner kingsley. and i'll have the last word, i think. >> thank you. commissioner kingsley: just a point of clarification. at what point in time did we agree to do this? was it after supervisor campos had already said that here's the date, this is what i'm doing, and invited us? or did you and he sit down and say ok this is the date, and here's the parties we'll bring to the table and brought them to the table and now we're not going to appear? >> we had extensive conversations.

lieutenant falvey has been involved with them with supervisor campos and his staff about appropriate dates. and a lot of this started as we were moving into other processes. i was very excited about this. i can't wait to work with supervisor campos so a very close friend and i would like to talk with him later tonight about this tonight or tomorrow. i think it's very important that we do this. it's very hard to get definition of community policing based on my years of experience and the department ofus tess has had a hard time defining it. if we could define it, it's great. but quite frankly, the best way to probably roll this out would be when we do have a permanent chief. whether it's a new chief or not. and we do it with the biggest -- there's the community and the policing. and probably should have the policing equation part of it and what better way to roll out an event for our new chief is to have this be the event with the board of supervisors discussing the definition of community policing. i think that would be an excellent way to roll this out and i'm very excited about this and want to work with supervisor campos on this. i respect him and this is a great deal. i accepted t