are expected to demonstrate a level of comfort navigating this. once in the park, the obstacles are not quite so closely place together, so it is a little bit easier to maneuver. supervisor mar: what would happen if someone kept crashing into the cones and could not get through the basic training? >> anyone that does not demonstrate a certain ability with the device is given a full refund and not allowed to go on the tour. anyone who just after the training session decides this is not for them, they are given a full refund and allowed not to go. we think again, those are two important stopgaps to ensure that the people operating the segways are comfortable and familiar with the device. know that we are focusing today mainly on this -- the safety elements or safety procedures,

but i did want to discuss briefly the route that the tour takes. it starts behind the music concourse. it goes along music concourse drive, and up through a pathway through rhododendron delaware -- rhododendron dell and over towards a conservator of flowers before going over to take a quick peek at the john mclaren large -- large -- lodge and doubling back towards the tennis complex and going back towards stow lake. originally, we have proposed strawberry hill in the map, and that is proposed here, but as i said, we have eliminated strawberry hill after concerns

from the community. once people get to stow lake, they start working their way back east. again, safety during the tour. all tours are led by highly trained staff. the tour guide goes first. participants are not allowed to pass the tour guide. the tour guide sets a modest pace for movement, and also ensures that any time the group approach is an obstacle, that the group comes to a complete stop. if it is a person or pedestrian or bicyclist, let that person has. if it is a crosswalk or stop sign, that they come to a complete stop before moving on. again, anyone who begins the tour but becomes uncomfortable is allowed to stop, and support staff will come and pick up the person and pick up the segway

before it continues. any person who demonstrates unsafe behavior during the tour is required to stop, and they are picked up by supports the theory that could be if someone is intentionally displaying reckless behavior, racing, not following directions, or if someone just after tour has begun, if there level of comfort with their device and their mastery of the machine is not sufficient enough to continue with tour, staff would stop that person from continuing on. there is a lot of talk about the device and how safe or not say if it may be. the average speed is approximately 4 miles an hour. the machines can go up to 12.5 miles an hour, but i would say, similar to a car that has a top speed, they do not often operate at that top speed. much more often, they are going

at a leisurely pace. the guide is describing what has happened in the park, and it is more to see the park rather than speed through it. supervisor mar: i know what happens when you go at 12 miles an hour and you try to go faster. can you explain physically what the machine does? >> i will try to. the machine has an electric limited. -- limiter. if you try to go faster than the 12.5 miles an hour, the machine pushes back, and you will feel sort of a slowing down or the machine redlining, so to speak. supervisor mar: kind of like an automatic brake? them at exactly. that is my presentation. with that said, i would like to make myself available for any questions the committee might have. supervisor mar: you said there

were no accident incidence -- incidents from the one-year pilot until now? do you know if other safety studies -- is it the i2 segways? there's a certain type used that is more safe than other types of segways? >> i would have to defer to the vendor. i'm not familiar. i know that earlier models have some software issues. many of the more publicized incidents were related to that. a few years ago, there was a recall, recalling all of the segways, and since that time, many of those safety issues have been addressed, but i'm not familiar with the different models. supervisor mar: thank you so much.

through the chair, if it is ok, if we could open this up for public comment. we have a number of speakers from the sf electric tour company, and a number of organizations that requested the hearing through my office. i'm going to call community representatives first, and then we have what looks like segway representatives from other regions. i will be calling a number of speakers from the sf electric tour company. there's about 15 people here. i will just call people as their hearts are filled out. >> thank you for holding this hearing. i am president of wall -- walk san francisco. we were involved when segways were banned from the sidewalks

of san francisco. a representative from the company came to demonstrate the safety of the device. in our offices, they demonstrated it. somebody got scared. they jumped off. the segway hit the wall and cracked the grant -- granite. we understand that the representative has said it has gotten safer, but we were told it was safe then. it is my understanding that at their lowest setting, they can go as 6 miles an hour. representative mentioned that the average speed is four. it should be noted that the average speed of a pedestrian is still two or 3 miles an hour, so it is going faster than pedestrians. that is why we have concerns with mixing segways with pedestrians, and it is for the same reason we have concerns about mixing cyclists with pedestrians.

i'm impressed by their safety record in north beach and fisherman's wharf, though it should be noted that in both of those locations, they operate the segways on the roadway and off the sidewalks. there was a study done in washington, d.c., that found that the majority of segway injuries were caused by people on tours like this, so respectfully, we ask that recon park only allow -- rec and park only allow segways on the roadways and not on pedestrian paths to be consistent with the city policy outside of rec and park property. thank you very much. supervisor mar: thank you. mr. ray holland from the planning association for the richmond.

>> first of all, i would like to say we do not oppose segways in the park. we supported. most importantly, we support new revenue streams for the department, and we think this is a realistic one. what we oppose is having them operated on trails and pathways. we think it ought to be just like the rest of the city on the streets. we also think it should not be just to the eastern part of golden gate park. there are some unused streets in the western part of the park that not have cars on them at all. that is a remote part of the park that most people do not visit, and i think it would be wise to use that. i want to point out that on the display of there, the safety issue was always looked at as one two parties confront one another on a pathway or trail. our concern is the opposite --

when at four miles an hour, they will overtake pedestrians. especially today. i'm a bicyclist. i ride in the park every day. when you come up behind pedestrians, especially if they happen to have ipads in their ears, they are completely oblivious to the rest of the world -- if they happen to have ipods in their ears. they do not know you are behind them. that is a potential danger, and i think that is probably the issue. a park is supposed to be a place of respite, and the complaints we get from our members is they want to just go over and have a nice, quiet walk in the park, and this is a motorized vehicle. it is like the elephant in the room. you may want to deny it is there, but it is there. supervisor mar: can you reiterate the position? you are supportive of segways, but you would like to see them

limited or eliminated from trails and pathways? >> correct. i also might point out that the pathways they pick vary from excuse pathways to those dedicated only for pedestrians and joggers, so you are going to have a real problem in what the rules are. supervisor mar: there was mention that there were some adjustments made with strawberry hill take it out, and you mentioned that there is one around the lower music concourse. you know the park better than maybe most people, and i know the rhododendron dell -- recently, the pavement has been approved in the past are very wide, so that is different than the narrow pathways to, like, seventh avenue, for example, or

behind the conservatory of flowers. are there specific places you have concerns about? >> the other is the redwood forest to the north of jfk park. they have signs that were recently put up there about being prohibited for bicyclist. the reason is because they got complaints from pedestrians walking through the dells down below. they did not want bicycles there. if they did not want bicycles there, why would you but segways -- why would you put segways there? supervisor mar: i would just like to ask people if they try to be sustained, especially if somebody has already made the point that they have already made. whatever people are the representatives of the electric tour company should speak first.

[reading names] those are the electric tour company folks. people can just line up and speak one after the other if you like. >> i'm not on that list because i thought i was speaking with nick. i'm the president of the electric tour company. good to be with you guys again. been spending more time in this building in the last six months

than i have in my entire life in san francisco. it has been great, and a good lesson in civics from a person who grew up in louisiana where civics is somewhat challenged. we have been operating in san francisco since 2004. i wanted to make a couple of quick corrections. the top speed limit our tours to is 10 miles an hour. the only time we exceed the 4 miles an hour speed limit is usually on a designated by trail or going around stow lake on the trail. honestly, we are stopping a lot. the second thing, as one of my staff members will be talking about, is our etiquette. we do address the issue of overtaking people. a couple of things i wanted to add -- we have been operating 205,000 hours. i did the mileage the other day. we did about 475,000 miles on segways in san francisco.

we have maintained in excellent safety record. segways are 10 years old now. this is not a new thing.we have- we have been out in said francisco for seven years. we have a great business experience on paths, trails, skills, all sorts of things. one of the other things on our regular tours we operate, and we have five different routes in san francisco, we go through 100 intersections a day. that is thousands of times that we come across the public on foot, in addition to them jumping out between cars. anyway, my staff is going to talk about some different points. we know we have a lot of speakers here. we shut down our entire company today to come to this hearing. we employ a lot of folks. they all look like smirched like -- look like smurfs today. i apologize.

that is our winter uniform. anyway, we are here to answer -- [bell rings] thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity to speak today. i live in the nob hill area. in one of the two managers in the golden gate park. tour electric company -- electric tour company runs a safe tour. i'm in favor of the existing five-year contract being allowed to operate on this route and know that in the company will continue to run a safe and informative tour. i will look to go over a few highlights and majority answers for a couple questions on the survey. the second question was did you feel the park pathways and trails were a safe way to visit locations on the tour?

the fourth question was whether interactions between tourists and park visitors were safe on both parties. the overwhelming answer on these was yes or a positive version. responses include the golden gate park is a large segway park larges -- is a large part and -- is a large park and segways allow more people to see more of it. it allows for closer connections with the plants then if we have been restricted to formal paved roads. supervisor mar: do you know off the top of your head with the

demographics of the users of the segways are? i think it cost about $70 for several hours, including the training. people with limited mobility or maybe people are older that might not be able to walk or bike. >> a huge demographic of people come between the ages of 40 to 60. a lot of these people could walk with canes or something like that, so we get a lot of people who are not as active as i am or someone else who goes on the tour and a perfectly fine for two and a half hours on a segway, which they could not do walking. supervisor mar: you are one of the several managers for the company? >> correct. the majority of the answers to question 7, followed by the ones i gave you, were also absolutely and yes, which were positive answers, given to all the people and the e-mails.

i also have the survey for you. supervisor mar: thank you. if people could keep coming forward one after the other. thank you. >> good morning, supervisors. i would like to thank you for the opportunity to speak before you. i lived in richmond neighborhood, and i have been a segway tour guide for several years now. i used to do tours in philadelphia, and our route was similar in scope to our route in golden gate park. in philadelphia, we also had mixed use trails and it included about half a mile bicycle trails, and also, the area of around both house road, which is a congested pedestrian area, and i'm not sure exactly how many

tours i gave, but i would estimate of around 500, and we never had any incidents with collisions with pedestrians or anything like that. having come out here and started working with these guys, i can say that the people who go out here are much better prepared to use the segway. they have a higher degree of competency after the training they go through, which is very formal and standardized. also, i want to point out that i believe the no bike signs are actually surrounding an area that has bite jumps and stuffed -- bike jumps and stuff that i think were built surreptitiously. also, my time in working in the park, it has been about 40 days, and i have had several employees

and staff -- they have all really enjoyed it and express their thanks that we are sort of giving people a way to have easier access to their work because they are out there taking care of these beautiful areas that are often sort of missed by visitors to the city because they are less accessible on foot and people do not know they are there. we all use the park a lot -- [buildings] thank you -- [bell rings] thank you. >> i have been a manager at the fisherman's wharf location for almost a year. i was born in and and a current resident of san francisco. a lot to talk to you briefly about the way we train our guests with a focus on courtesy and safety. we use a scale to check the minimal way. it is very important. every guest must review and sign a waiver and wear a helmet and

bright reflective vests. we start by training our guests on the basics of safety and gives us a chance to meet the one on one and is -- assess how comfortable they are which is important so that throughout the rest of the training, we can pay special attention to guessed that may need additional support. we send them through a small obstacle course of collapsible cones to make sure they are provision -- proficient with the crucial emergency stock, which takes some time to learn and care to teach. they also need to experience the speed limit, which feels a bit like the segways pushing back against you. it is an unusual sensation, and we want to make sure guests are totally comfortable with it before they leave. will discuss how we are passed and passed by guest on the trails. guests practiced on inclines and navigating trails properly. we practice with the alert bells

on each unit for reviewing all points once again, silent, in- year radio receivers for navigation and safety issues -- in-ear radio receivers. we have had guests with limited range of motion take the tour who appreciate the limited freedom. not everyone ride -- not everyone can ride safely, so sometimes, our job includes denying people permission. we are not comfortable sending someone out, they will not go. we find in training to accommodate a wide range of riders -- [bell rings] >> good morning. i have a very nice letter written by an enthusiast, and she writes, "as you know, i feel

passionate that your company is doing a wonderful service for the park, san francisco, and the people lucky enough to get a reservation on your segway tour. if i could have spoken at the hearing, i would emphasize that your safety training is not only very thorough but as a fun and memorable part of the experience. every minute spent on safety was important and was done extremely well. each of your trainers that individual attention to insure that everyone had requisite safety skills and to make sure everyone felt comfortable individually and as a group. as i mentioned, the city was responsible for implementation of many miles of bicycle trails on the streets in the area. i'm also familiar with the importance of share the road rules related to buy cigarettes, cars, and pedestrians. the segway tour and safety rules and raise the necessary ingredients for successful and safe sharing of the golden gate park assets available to all who

visit. good more -- good luck this morning at the hearing. there is no doubt in my mind that the visitors all benefit greatly from the segway experience. i have driven through the park for 20 years and not until i took your tour did i realize the significance of the plants, structures, pathways, and activities that are there. the duty of every turn was amazing, and without your tour introducing me to the parks so intimately, i probably would not have discovered many of the things i will come back to experience in the future. i now feel that i will return to san francisco and the park much more often, and i have expanded my wish list of things to do greatly. i will also be a much better tour guide for friends and family visiting the area, and i have even discover that i have a new-found and better understanding of what it might be like to be handicapped and not have the use of -- [buildings -- [bell rings]

thank you. >> i want to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. the park is right outside my front door. i am the other assistant manager, and today, i am sharing with you the list of etiquette rules we make sure every single guest has heard before they leave our training area. first of all, your tour guide will set the speed for your tour. if you disregard your guide's instructions, you will be removed without a refund. second, everyone has the right of way over a segway -- pedestrians, bicyclists, baby strollers, dog walkers, scooters, skaters. crosswalks can be busy, and we wait for everyone, which we really do stress, on foot or bicycle, to safely cross before

entering. with may not stop for us, which we are aware of, so we do not proceed into a crosswalk until signaled by the guide. do not startle anyone. segways are very quiet. we slowed down and announce our presence by voice. we tell other users we are behind them and call out which side we will be entering on. many visitors to not have phones and to not hear us coming, so we greet everyone. head-on with a segway can be confusing, so we slowed to a stop and tell the other group what side we are going to pass on, give them time to figure out we are not an alien riding on a magical hovercraft through the part -- debate park -- through the park. the guard and volunteers work hard to keep the park looking as beautiful as it does, so we do

our part as well. just like life, there are bumps in all of our roads. your guide will use a radio narration system to point out most of the hazards along the roads, and this is not -- [buildings -- [bell rings] supervisor mar: what do you do if someone violates the etiquette? >> we do let them know that if they are not listening to their guide at any point, they will be taken off their torpor -- there -- their tour, and the guide will call one of us, and we will come them -- come pick them up, so they do not have a chance to read the -- to ride the segway back, either. >> i am one of the managers of the company at fisherman's wharf. i visit golden gate park regularly to go to the museum or

just have to index and walk around. i'm here to talk to you today about who licenses and regulates us and the outreach program that we did win starting golden gate park. segways have been regulated by the state and city since 2002. they outline the specific equipment designs classifications and rules and penalties for not complying. to operate in san francisco and in sausalito, we have folks looking up what we do. the national park service permit with annual review, and guest experience recap. we are one of only three national park permits in the country. the national park service permit, and we all have cpr and medical training requirements for all the guides. we have a sausalito business license, an