services. this gives us the opportunity to partner with mda, as well. the bus shelters, bus stops, any of a number of ways to get the information out there -- partner with the mta. supportive housing and other residences. we can adopt techniques but are sound, such as placement in specialized retail outlets, pharmacies, senior centers, and so on. the environment department, we do hundreds of events every year, street parties, farmers' markets. you name it, we are there. we have people who speak chinese and spanish, so we are wanting to get the word out to them, as well. supervisor mar: could i just ask

you again, which have the divide that you would reach out to where the yellow page -- >> folks with disabilities and also non english speakers. >> so, in closing, as you have heard, san franciscos are doing their part, but we do need to address this. this stance to have a significant impact on reducing unnecessary waste in san francisco and will bring our city one step closer to realizing our 0-wasteful. we want to thank supervisor chiu, as well as supervisors w iener and mar. thank you very much. supervisor mar: i know there is a representative here from

recology, who is a partner with our city. i would like to invite upper -- up paul. >> good afternoon. as a company who is partnering with the city to get to zero ways, i believe we need to work towards this, and it seems asking for a phone book is a good start to that. because of the physical properties of the phone books, they are a challenge to recycle. we cannot use our mechanical sorting equipment to do it. they have to be sorted manually, so we have installed conveyor belts in need to pull them off of that line manually to get them recycled. another problem is they get delivered in plastic bags, and they have to actually take them out of the plastic bags, and the plastic bags that do get through the system can wrap around the

recycling equipment and can also contaminate the bales of paper. et that is it. thank you. supervisor mar: there was a video that was not able to work. can you share something about that? >> the phone books, because of their weight, they are kind of -- there is a screen, and it has spinning stars, and the paper floats up the incline, and bottles and cans drop down onto a second conveyor belts, so the phone books will either drop down, where the bottles or cans ago, where they will just sit and spin on the equipment and kind of jam up the screens, so we have to stop equipment and get them removed off before we can start processing again, so we try our best to get them off a be acquitted before they get to the stars screens.

-- get them off of the equipment before they get to the start -- star screens. supervisor mar: i want to read a few excerpts, and the note is from an individual who resides in a unit in an apartment building and states that each year, 35 sets of phone books get delivered to our building. the tenants do not use them. it is our responsibility of building managers to dispose of them. this is a horrible waste of energy, paper, and our time, not to mention the environment, to have to deal with this, and, obviously, this is someone who supports this particular policy. were you able to get the film to work? so, again, that is depicted a telephone book on the middle of the conveyor belt, not able to

get up, the sheets of paper, and not dumped in the bottom because it is heavy like glass or bottles. it hangs there until one of your employees has to manually take off and place it on to one of the phone books. thank you. thank you. the next person i would like to call up to the podium is executive director of the small business commission. i know that the industry has put out a fairly intense campaign that this legislation will somehow harm small businesses, and we had a very robust discussion at the small business commission, and i wanted to invite our executive director to talk about that. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i am the director of small business. in your committee packet is the official recommendations from the small business commission,

and the commission does recommend approval. the small business commission role is to review, evaluate, and provide recommendations to the board of supervisors on proposed legislation on policy matters that affect small business. the commission evaluates proposed policy matters on its implication to business operations, costs to do business, job creation, and will be policy matter improve the overall environment of doing business in san francisco. in february, the small business commission heard the program. and this is what their findings are. the commission recognizes and wants to make very clear that this was not a ban on yellow pages. small businesses will still be able to advertise, and an opt in option will more likely comprised of a more likely audience for the advertisers. the commission is also very confident in the department of

environment's robust public outreach campaign as part of this trial, and the commission is confident that the phone book directories will reach those that choose to receive delivery of the product. the commission supports the environmental benefits and reduce costs to dispose and recycle unwanted copies. therefore, supervisors, the small business commission does recommend that you approve the small business by the program and that by approving this legislation, the impact and the environment of which small business operates in in san francisco, this will be of minimal impact to them. supervisor mar: thank you. and one last speaker before we go into public comment. there is a university of california berkeley professor here. professor, if you could, please approached the podium. i know you have been an expert

at looking at market research, and in particular, you have looked at the solution of self regulation and a potential opt out program, and whether or not -- i am wondering if you could say a few words. >> thank you, supervisors. i teach law, including computer crime law. default rules, opt-in and opt- out, those are key, and it is a suboptimal choice if your policy goal is to reduce unwanted waste, because most people will not opt out. if you think about opt out, it requires that the individual know about the problem. it requires knowing that something can be done about the problem. it requires them to learn about the problem, to do something about it, and then, finally, for

the action that they take, that action has to be effectuated. that actually opt-out choice has to be effectuated. these are subject all sorts of problems. for instance, if i do not want the yellow pages, i may not know how to do a google search to opt out the term "-- to opt out. the term "top out -- "opt out" may not be in my mind. some are companies that say they will not take third party it copped out -- third party opt- outs, and if you want to, you have to show them your driver's license or birth certificate, or something.

and then there is a very famous case involving at&t, involving the telephone companies in california, figuring out how to tell consumers about their right so they will not exercise it, so they literally did research to make it so that people would not opt out. that decision is reported, and then, finally, i just wanted to point out that because of conflicts, opt out is not a great solution in this field. opt out can work if the person administering this is an independent third party, such as the government. at berkeley, we do a lot of public polling, and to do it right requires that you do a random sample. inherently, any research that

comes out from an internet sample is not random and therefore has no external validity. basically, those on-line surveys are done based on people responding to advertising. it is not that useful for public policy. it is good for marketing. think you, sir. -- thank you, sir. supervisor mar: i have had i think three meetings in the past months to talk about other ways of addressing the issue of the distribution of the yellow pages, and there is self regulation through this opt out mechanism, and i was told that if their program is put into place, this would likely reduce the number of yellow pages 985%

or 10%, and from what i understand, this has not worked in other jurisdictions that have tried this. of the millions of phone books, we might see 5% or 10% of san francisco is opting out. i know that seattle tried this and found that self regulation, these opt out programs, did not work. can you comment about what you know about other jurisdictions that have tried to do this? >> i started out by talking about the five barriers to opt out. you have to know about it, know that you can do something about it, etc., and that leads to very low levels of octet out -- of opt out. banks are allowed to sell information to telemarketers. nobody wants that, but they do not know that they have to opt out.

less than 5% of americans opt out of information sharing at the bank. you think that something as sensitive as your financial information, to sell it on an opt out basis, and you only get a 3% or 4% of the out, you're going to find a similar number with phone books or other items. whether or not the program is going to be successful, if it is opt out controlled by the industry, you are not going to get more than 10%. supervisor mar: thank you very much. >> thank you. supervisor mar: at this time, i would like to move to public comment, but there are questions that i have proposed -- the best ideas from the public on what we do here, and i would like to summarize three questions that i have 4 folks to think about, and if you want to address them, particularly, the opponents of this legislation, i would like to hear good ideas.

the first is around open -- over distribution and why the over distribution of phone books is a practice and apparently a best practices of the industry. but what you hear what you justify that san franciscans should receive multiple copies every year. i know the industry has set a sustainability report, but from everyone who has looked at these reports, it seems that if the industry is serious about sustainability, they have to figure out how to stop mass over distribution, and what i can figure out here is up there is no way to stop that mass distribution but for the legislation that we have in front of us today. the second thing i images did is we have received a lot of emails from folks from the industry -- the second thing is that we have received a lot of emails. this is going to affect jobs, as well. we have learned through our research that the yellow page research -- industry justifies

its rates based on inflated circulation numbers. i know we will probably hear otherwise from folks in the audience, but there were some that did research to get quotes on the price of ads, and we were quoted advertising rates based on circulation numbers but i just described. the third thing i wanted to ask is to get some feedback on this issue of self regulation. we continue to your consistently that self regulation does not work, and as i said, the industry has stated that that is the best answer to this question, but i have got to think that there is something better that we can do. so all of that being said, i have many, many cards with us today, and i would like to ask each speaker to limit the comments of of to two minutes, so if i can ask this because -- speakers to please line up in the center line, especially the number first person -- please

line up in the center aisle, as i will start with the first person from the green chamber. [reading names] from the community housing partnership. if you could please line up, and for speaker, you can start speaking as soon as you get up there. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i am -- with the green chamber of commerce. the yellow pages is currently conducting a campaign with businesses, claiming that the proposed pilot program will put the yellow pages of a business and eliminate this channel of advertising. we believe that this argument is deceptive and falls. the yellow pages produces dozens of books with lower distribution. 31,000 250 dozen books. other figures include grass valley in nevada city. napa valley of 70,000.

another two equal 90,000. if the new pilot program requires them to reduce their distribution figures from their current combined 1.6 million, this will not put the san francisco books of business. point number two. higher labor costs are sustainable. we do not believe this will result in higher labor costs inevitably for the industry. they already do significant individual drop-offs through their secondary distribution. newcomers to move to the city can call to request a directorate harriett increased individual dropouts will not radically engage people. furthermore, the industry makes enough profit to meet any increased labor costs. it represents up to 35% to 40% of revenue.

alone in 2008, $50.90 million. point number two, this is sustainable. the non english manufacturers and others have proven that this distribution is not necessary for successful yellow pages. they pay high lyric book -- higher labor costs to do so and are still successful. it does not rely on one-time yearly distribution. supervisor mar: thank you very much. next speaker. >> thank you, president chiu. we are based here in san francisco. we have about 700,000 members nationally and 65 of and in california. we exist to support innovative policy and protect the environment, so we are here today and taking a fairly extraordinary act of support in local measure, which we do not normally get involved in,

because it is just that. the bar and the benefits of targeting yellow pages to only those who use them, i think it is clear to everyone who lives in san francisco or the bay area, and i think there is a lot that occurs with the current system. if the city is really committed to a zero waste policy, the adoption of this legislation is a no-brainer. but i also want to talk from my experience at city hall, where i had the honor to serve the board of supervisors and the mayor for about eight years, and i have watched time and again when san francisco breaks ground on environmental policy. plastic bags, water bottles, styrofoam food containers, mandatory recycling, and later, mandatory composting, and then opening the streets on sundays for walking and bicycling.

in all of these instances, there was controversy surrounding this ground-breaking policies, and concern that this would hurt business. the sunday streets, so controversial that it was actually about prohibiting funds for the city streets, because businesses in certain parts of the district or the city actually say that they thought they would lose business. well, the reality is the opposite. sunday streets is one of many examples that demonstrate that actually groundbreaking policy does not hurt business, and implemented creatively and with the affected output -- 84 your time. -- thank you for your time. president chiu: thank you. next person. >> thank you, present -- president chiu.

this automatically reduces returns, because my money is spent advertising to market segments that would never actually become customers. what i like about this ordinance is from a pure business perspective, it is actually going to improve the yellow pages marketing channel. by requiring the delivery of phone books to people actually want to them, the yellow pages is much better to understand the desires of those people. using this to create more relevant, targeted marketing, to more likely consumers. this results in improving my return on investment in the phone book channel. if implemented correctly, i see that the pie the program is a number of wins. a win for the pilot program, a win for commercial and residential taxpayers, " with a reduction of recycling costs of unwanted yellow pages. it is a win for our

neighborhood, which will receive only the number of phone books that people will actually want and use. it is a win for consumers, and it is a win for business. we will receive more accurate exposure that our money is going to pay for and more accurate demographic data on the channel. due to the opportunity for more targeted marketing, we will receive an increased return on investment. they keep. -- thank you. president chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> hello, i am -- i got my college training at the city college of san francisco, and i use, just for me, a small businessman, i use all forms of advertising. i use the yellow pages.

i use the advertiser. i use google. but the funny thing is that most of the customers, they come from the marina district, and they use the yellow pages. $300 a month. in order for them to get to me on the internet, like google rankings, right? in order for me to be at the top of the list to get some business, i do not know how much i have to spend. do you understand what i am

saying? but right now, i can spend $300 a month. president chiu: we have to give everyone equal time. >> the first day the yellow pages are out, they call me. san francisco being about my agribusinesses, i am a small business. nobody asked me how this was going to affect my business. i mean, small business can go from $100 to $1 million. micro business, too, is going to be affected. maybe you should put this off a little bit and do a little more research. president chiu: thank you. >> good afternoon.

i have been in business for the past 10 years, and i can say i have not picked up a yellow pages once in those years. i take it from the front door to the recycling bin, but that aside, i do not use it. i do not use it because it has no value for me, and i would not expect to customers to try to find me in the yellow pages, which is why a and option of an auction in sounds sensible to me. i try to be as sensible as a small businessman as i can. i do not spam my potential clients, which feels like what is happening in these books are dropped off indiscriminately already the city. and the waist dress me crazy. i mean, just the other day, in the midst of a recent typhoon, i so no less than 50 or 20, despite of the bags, waterlog books. i have an mp3 player.

if i want a cd, i opt in to a store where i can get it. i do not buy 8-track tapes anymore. if people want to the yellow pages, absolutely, they should have it. for those of us to do not want it and do not find it is in the the in value to running our businesses are finding businesses, then i do not think we should have it. thank you very much. president chiu: thank you. >> i am just glad i did not have to come up here and sing. my name is -- i and the commercial real estate partner, but today, i am speaking on behalf of the abbacy committee of the green group. are they good for business? and are they good for the environment? this is a no-brainer. it is good for business because

it is highly targeted markets, and right now, it is grossly highly inefficient. in a city of this many residents, why are we producing over 1 million books? of that, according to the experience of the summer 2010 consumer survey, only 30% of the respondents replied that they actually opened up the yellow pages in the last 12 months. that means that over 1 million phone books that are being distributed within our city, only 370,000 people are actually getting them, so the gentleman earlier was worried about not getting these books into the hands of people who need them, but there is a gross overproduction of nearly three times what we really need. for business, given that the rate that the yellow pages charges the advertisers, it is disproportionate to the distribution, and the numbers that i bring up now clearly show that the circulation or the distribution, it is just not an

accurate number, so businesses are overpaying for this advertising. allowing an opt in system would give these advertisers and much more targeted and relevant basis. it is also good for the environment. in 2008, the u.s. epa study found that only 21% of these phone books actually were recycled. we heard earlier from recology and others that it costs over $3,000 per ton to recycle, which costs the city of san francisco over $1 million per year. president chiu: before you leave, i wanted to ask a question, and i know from the green chamber, there was the consumer survey, showing that only 38% of adults referred to the yellow pages in the last months, and you mentioned the yellow pages' of a statistic,

where they claim that 75% referred to the yellow pages each year, and i was really struck by that paragraph. i wanted to know what your thoughts were on that. >> i do not have that in front of me right now, but there is something you might be able to answer that for you. >> the statistics, research institutions for the entire country. next speaker. >> i represent approximately 840 residents in the city and county at 10 different buildings f a