pages for a couple of decades, and i can tell you for sure, the yellow pages work. i get calls every day. and we also help people every day by giving them free information, free advice, that kind of thing. people do use them as resources. i would not buy advertising. this would be a death blow to me. my business will stop in san francisco, at least, and there is going to be a lot of people who feel the same way. how are you going to find a pizza? these businesses, at&t, valley, they are right here. they are selling advertising, because people are using phone books. if it was not profitable, they would not do it. everybody wants to do what is right for the environment, as do

i, but i believe in capitalism more and freedom of speech. you know, this is really crossing the line on commercial speech, which is a quasi- fundamental right. anyway, i think you are going to hurt a lot of businesses, and there are a lot of people whose jobs are going to and on the directories side of things. -- things are going to end. it is a rough time out there, and i think you are going to do a lot of damage. thank you. president chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i am a longtime resident, and i would like to share my experience. i come home from work, and i see the pile of yellow pages, and my heart sinks, and a couple of weeks later, i come out to the lobby, and there is a tripping

hazard to the recycling bin, over and over again. i think the legislation before you today is a resource saving and timesaving and cost saving, as you have heard from many today. it provides for the needs of the actual users, and i am here today to encourage you to support this common-sense legislation. thank you. note -- president bush -- president chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> i am here with a group and also as a resident of san francisco. not all in california or all in san francisco have the ability to go online for directory assistance. in fact, if you want to come over to my house, i can introduce you to some of my neighbors to do not have computers or internet access. even when they do, they may not be able to find information on

specific businesses and services in their area. for those that depend on the yellow pages, we look to the directories, and it will have a significant negative effect. it is interesting, and we often find ourselves looking at very moderate approaches. there is a bit of the same thing here. kibler -- wal-mart has already paid to be what i am going to find. i am obviously going to drive there. i am not want to get there any other way. internet access, i use the yellow pages often because i want to find stuff that is local. we used to say, "let your fingers do the walking." i would say, "let your fingers do the driving." by taking away a local resource,

you may actually encourage not only dollars to go out of the city but people to go out of the city to spend their dollars, so we think that from a perspective, the opt out can be very effective, and we think that gives customers the choice to opt out. we have heard it gives apartment dwellers perhaps the option to decide that not all of them want it, and they're all of those who do not have internet access and do not realize how much they depend on this resource. until it is taken away from them. president chiu: as the next speaker steps up to the microphone, if i could ask these other people? [reading names]

to step up and please line up. thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. my name is michelle, and i am with the sierra club and also a san francisco resident. 3,500 tons of waste enters the waste stream every year because of the production of the yellow pages. the epa states that over one phone book per person is produced nationally come on and there are three times as many of what is needed is produced more

and more people are going online. yelp is actually developed by the consumer. if we would cut this down in half, we would save over 680 metric tons of carbon dioxide. this is an industry that has not involved with modern times, so we need to step in and do something about this. president chiu: thank you. next citizen. >> my name is brittainy, and i am a concerned citizen. i personally have not used in

yellow pages phone book since i sat on it to reach the dinner table. i am part of the population that uses the internet and other resources like my cell phone to look up phone numbers for businesses and contacts in general. in conclusion, i am in support of this ordinance, and i hope you war, too. thank you. president chiu: next speaker. >> hello. my name is ursula mcgwire. i am with the senior action network, and i am here to speak

to talk about what would be done for small businesses. we could use the internet. the email address is yelp.com or google it. obviously, i am not able to get to a desk comfortably, and my dexterity is slow, and in that case, we could use ing for 11, or 800 -- 800, free, f-r-e-e.

these will give you list of businesses for free. and hook you up to the business for free, also. this will show you how the yellow pages do not serve me, and i have technology. thank you very, very much. president chiu: thank you very much for coming today to testify. next speaker, please. >> president mar, supervisors,

and president chiu. i am with the association of direct publishers, founded in 1898 and the oldest trade association in our industry. i am here to talk about the process that has led to this hearing today. i think it is important that you all understand if you have not been actively involved in this just what is happening, because in my 14 years in this position, working with the united states congress, federal regulatory agencies, state and municipal governments, environmental and other groups, this process, this issue, has provided less opportunity for meaningful, open dialogue than any i have never been involved in. despite what has been said today, the sponsor and/or his staff have attempted to create

the false perception that only a very small percentage of san franciscans use the yellow pages. they have summarily rejected their research-based usage data for san francisco presented to them, dismissing them as merely self-serving. the sponsor is instead indicating his reliance on anecdotal experiences, such as a show of hands at political gatherings of light-minded supporters. the sponsor has refused to meet with industry members to substantively discussed in good faith, though his staff has attended to create an e-mail trail that would suggest the opposite. it process is flawed cannot results in clear and effective legislation. as ned said, there is broad consensus by everyone involved in this issue that no one who

does not want to receive a phone book should ever receive one, but opt-in is the worst possible of all of the considerations that could be considered. it will result in scores of unintended victims and posting vacancy signs in store windows. no one has more skin in the game than our industry. we are committed to doing it right, and i ask you to either vote no on this proposal or to continue it so that we can begin a dialogue that will result in a favorable effort for everyone. thank you very much. supervisor chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, jim lazarus, san francisco chamber of commerce. obviously, no one supports ways, materials not used, extra materials into the waste stream, but the exaggeration we have heard today is really to the extreme. to talk about 1.6 million folks

to 800,000 residents, you forget a large part of your district supervisors in downtown san francisco with half a million other people working and business locations with phones and phone books. you are also for getting multiple -- there is, because it is a free first amendment right -- we are seeing multiple books distributed by at&t, the valley yellow pages, hispanic, asian, the gay and lesbian community is that obviously tried that count up. what we have not heard today is how this will make the playing field level for small businesses and all businesses in san francisco by basically cutting the legs out from under the print advertising option in favor of the internet. all you have to do is go to google and see who is paying for the top of that google search. it is not your small businesses. the legality question has been touched on. let's hear from the city attorney. why is the opinion that you can

provide, when asked by a supervisor to draft legislation similar to what is before you today, the opinion was it is illegal. it violates the first amendment of the united states constitution. it is not content neutral. we hear nothing on that point from the sponsor or anyone else at the board. opt-out is the way to go. let's have a policy that says if this is truly a fair program, let's have the department work opt out. you have uc professors saying how difficult that is. what the professor was not asked was what will be the dropout rate of people that we truly want and would use the yellow pages but have not figured out opt-in. let's go to the department of the environment for getting these books that are not used back into circulation where they need to be used, reducing overall printing. that is obviously in everybody's interests, but preventing wide

distribution of phone books is not in the best interest of the businesses in san francisco or the city, many the materials for city government phone numbers and most especially, for emergency response that is in the phone book. i will wrap it up right now. i heard anything, i would be a little bit afraid in the next disaster that the average san franciscan apparently does not have the book that you heard today and does not look to the emergency provisions that we are really focused on after the 1989 earthquake. supervisor chiu: thank you very much. next speaker. >> last time i had to follow a singing guide. following jim lazarus is almost as bad. i am here on behalf of the sierra club. i want to thank you for putting forth this legislation and also supervisor wiener for being a code-sponsored. melanie said it best when she talked about reduce, reuse, recycle. waste is waste. there is no other excuse for it. i think this program would help

the city achieve its zero with goals sooner rather than later, and if one has been made about the costs involved that are either born by the city or the rate payers in terms of recycling that are important. the other thing that has not been touched on very much is -- very much as the impact on the paper industry. i did a little bit of research, and apparently, we use more water per ton of product than any other industry in the world. i have seen some pretty horrific pictures. also, i thing we need to think about the destruction of trees, the deforestation that is going around. maybe these trees are not all going for yellow pages, but there is destruction of forests in south america, in the southeast area, canada, and alaska. i think it is really important that we look at the total environment picture. the other thing that has not been mentioned is how many cars and trucks it takes to distribute these around the city. i think that it is an important issue, and i'm glad that it is

here, and i hope you can support it. i also have a revised letter for the clerk. i sent an e-mail yesterday, but i changed some of the numbers, so i will leave that with the clerk. supervisor chiu: 90. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i am a resident of the richmond district, and i'm here to speak out in favor of this proposal. true that i have used the yellow pages in the past, and use it only as a paperweight, really. honestly, when i need to find something online, i go online, and that is my main instinct. i have grown up just seeing pretty much in my part of complex just books being left out on the street, just backs, as we have already seen before hand. this would be, i think, a step in the right direction. talking to some of my other

friends about this issue, they say the same thing, that they do not use yellow pages. their first initial reaction is to go to yelp or google. as our communities get more internet savvy, their initial reaction is going to go to our online resources. we have public libraries that are accessible to get this information, and also the yellow pages, if you do want them, at these places. i do not have any fear, really, about the loss of any consumer notification. really, i think this is a great step in the right direction, and i would be glad to see some of the waste eliminated from all of this. if i want to opt in for an annual paper rate, i will do so in the future -- for an annual paperweight, i will do so in the future. supervisor chiu: thank you. as the next speaker comes to the

podium, let me call up -- [reading names] >> good afternoon, supervisors. i m here on the behalf of san francisco beautiful. we are a nonprofit community benefit organization with a wide membership throughout the city of san francisco. our mission is to ensure that the city retains and enhances its unique and memorable sense of place, ballots, and diversity of its beautiful, verdant, and vibrant urban center. we are extremely concerned with the esthetic issue of letters piled up in our streets -- [bell rings] supervisor chiu: sorry about that. i think that was a little early. [laughter] >> no problems. we are concerned about the amount of paper left unused and eventually hold off recycling.

we believe that the yellow pages pilot program is an excellent response to the issues of literary abatements and sustainability. does not limit the delivery when personally accepted, but is designed to prevent a steady light from being left in doorways. by a vote of the executive committee of san francisco beautiful on march 2, 2011, it is the official position of san francisco beautiful to support this legislation. thank you, supervisors, for sponsoring this forward-looking and contemporary legislation. thank you. supervisor chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. we publish a directory seen directly at one of the most important, diverse communities in the city -- spanish-speaking residents. not only is our directory published in spanish, but our version of the yellow pages case

to the specific needs of our community. has the information they are looking for and the listings and ads from businesses that serve their community. both the residents we serve any businesses to advertise with us depend on our product, and they depend on it being freely distributed to their doorstep. being that the spanish-speaking community sees the phone book as a trusted connection between small businesses and the consumer, should this ordinance be allowed to pass, the distribution would be diminished immensely. without a printed directories, both spanish-speaking residents and businesses and cater to them loose, and the economic fallout would be very harmful to this community, which is already suffering more than others. i'm glad there were individuals who did mention the use their internet. they use their smartphones, and they use broadband. however, it is not free. they are very fortunate to have that luxury. most spanish-speaking consumers

do not have the disposable income to be able to afford that. so where will they go? if they are going to look for something on google search and go to the library, it will not be anything local. so i urge you, on behalf of the diverse ethnic communities in san francisco, to table this proposal that would be so harmful to many. also, i have a statement from the rainbow yellow pages. it reads, "we have no pride in a city that would deny small businesses the right to market themselves however they feel is best for their business. there is a misperception that everyone today finds businesses online. that simply is not true, especially if you are a business that wants to reach a targeted audience." supervisor chiu: 5 you very

much. >> good afternoon. thank you so much. i am the president of the green chamber of commerce, and we fully support this measure. this ordinance is ultimately good for business and the environment in significant ways that outweigh possible downside spirit it was the reason that in the small business commission they voted to support the ordinance unanimously. that is why we urge their support. we urge you to support it as well. having reviewed the yellow pages association's sustainability report, we concluded that requiring this possible distribution practices of the yellow pages phone book in the city is the most sustainable thing that this industry could do. as everyone has said before and board members have spoken today from the green chamber, it is low hanging fruit. we have not talked about the average person receiving 41 pounds of gelled mail in the city every year. the yellow pages phone book is the biggest piece of junk mail we receive and weighs around 5 pounds. most people receive at least two

copies, meaning 10 pounds. that is 25% of the total weight of all gel mail we receive each year. we are eliminating unwanted phone books that can immediately is the equivalent wait until we receive by 21%. in the free market, the consumer has a choice. here we have no choice. people receive multiple copies of five counts of phone books every year because of the advertising industry. there are better ways, and we urge you to support this ordinance. supervisor chiu: i have one comment on the letter that you had submitted about niche yellow page manufacturers. you said in your testimony that there are many non-english- language and other niche yellow page manufacturers who have proven that door to door distribution is not necessary for successful yellow pages. they pay higher labor costs, and they are so successful in part because there are better permanent local jobs that do not rely on one-time yearly

seasonable distribution patterns. could you comment on that? >> a couple of things on that. one of the terms of sustainability is localization, and improving a local work force does definitely help with that. there was also a march 3/-- march 3, 2011 letter to the board of supervisors from the chinese yellow pages, noting that, but " we are unable to deliver door-to-door, especially in the bay area, where chinese readers and writers are more dispersed than any other market." i think that also bolsters that point. does that answer your question? supervisor chiu: it does. i know a number of smaller publishers spoke to our offices off the record. it or not interested in entering the yellow pages association, but they told us that there model, which is different from the model we have been talking about today, has been great for business, and that is the way they think the industry ought to

go. thank you. next speaker. >> thank you, supervisors. i am financial secretary of the ibw 1269. i'm speaking in opposition of this ordinance on behalf of my union, the san francisco labor counsel, and the state aflcio. i represent over 800 workers. the design, sell, process, and fulfill all of the advertising that is placed in the at&t print yellow pages from cover to cover as well as the internet at&t capability product in conjunction with the yellow pages print, and we have been doing that for over 50 years. right now, those workers are on

the streets talking to these business folks, trying to find out what their interests are in buying advertising this year in the san francisco directory that is going to publish in december. these customers, these advertisers, these small business people are either going to renew their existing advertising, by additional advertising, or they are going to cancel whatever advertising is in the book now. depending on what they calculate is the value of whether or not there is even going to be a book. now, we have all these new customers and new businesses coming into town who have nothing in the yellow pages and are going to look forward to wanted to put something in those books. i want to stress that many of the businesses in this town are union employers. they all have advertising -- or many of them have advertising in

this book. i am going to quote some of the businesses that our union employees with union workers. your plumbing contractors -- [bell rings] two minutes already? supervisor chiu: i will ask you a follow-up question. i did speak to mr. stempel said this morning from the labor council, who relayed some of the issues you were talking about -- speak with mr. tim paul said. if we were to move to a model where you were to need to get permission from residents and businesses in order to receive yellow pages, there are many folks that believe that would create more jobs for your industry, that that will provide an opportunity for your workers to go door by door, to do more canvassing, and to also work year round, to insure that if you are going to leave yellow pages at supermarkets, libraries, restaurants, and we feel that something you will have to do more often. your thoughts on that? >> my thoughts are i would only

be able to evaluate those comments if i knew who they came from. from my personal point of view, there is nobody in this room in this building in this city in this state in this country that knows more about yellow pages advertising than i do. i have been doing it for 50 years. i'm here to tell you i do not believe that. i do not know what he has articulated that could counter that, but i can tell you -- you did not cut me off, did you? supervisor chiu: no, i'm asking. feel free to answer the question. >> plumbing contractors, electrical contractors. we have signed hangars, general contractors, carpenters, sheet metal workers, roofing contractors, sign hangars, all the repair service people. many hotels and restaurants in this city, not to mention the number of truck drivers delivering products. i have heard an awful lot about no-brainers theory to me, that means you do not have a brain.