believe me, those new means do not serve equally all the businesses. it depends how much money you have to spend to get those different online businesses. they work and they put you there. it depends how much money you give them to get you on the top of the list, on the front page of the internet's, and i want to mention that they are not all professional. they are not quality control. i spoke with different businesses that they put online advertisements, and they promoted very unethical ways to

promote my business. not everybody, especially people my age, has the ability to go and search -- [bell rings] supervisor chiu: thank you very much. next speaker. >> thank you, supervisors. i am a small business owner, specializing in the senior market. i do not think we can say that we would ever have a perfect world where we would have -- never have the internet not go down, or even to have -- never have a natural disaster and earthquake and tsunami. considering that, there are always reasons why having a

local resourced is very important to seniors, and this is a part of that. i do not necessarily believe that we are here today to talk about the necessity of the book or waste. i think everybody here, no matter what side they are on -- no one wants excess waste. i think where we need to focus is whether there should be opt- in or opt-out. i am against opt-in. when the federal government passed the medicare part b legislation, which was basically an entitlement program, it was very confusing. millions of americans did not opt in. they did not understand the provisions of how to do it.

i think that really, the best situation in addressing an overall solution would be to have an opt-out system. if people do not want the books, apartment managers do not want the books, i know it is printed on the front of the books on the ballot -- valley yellow pages. there are ways they can call and simply not have it. but people need to get used to the fact that there is a different system, and they need to opt out and not have to opt in to get their books. thank you. supervisor chiu: next speaker. >> good afternoon. i have been in business since 2002. the yellow pages has built my business. i would not be here without them. i have tried all sorts of advertising -- flyers, mailers,

internet. nothing brings me the success of the yellow pages. the internet i have to pay so much money, which i have, and i am still advertising with the internet. the results are just not there. i have spent so much money on the internet, and it just does not work for me. i am actually based in san mateo. a year ago, i started doing business in san francisco. if this ordinance passes, i worry i will not be able to grow my business in san francisco the way i wanted, which means i probably would not be able to hire any local electricians, visit the local wholesale houses, visit -- get gas for my vans locally, visit restaurants locally as they do business here. if i have to opt out of san francisco, i just do not think that is great, and this is a great city. so please vote no on this

ordinance. supervisor chiu: next speaker. >> good afternoon. my name is terry fowler. i am in the bail bond insurance business. i have been in the business for 30 years, and we do use the yellow pages. a lot of people are in difficult positions. we tracked every call we get through the door, and i would say at least 50% or more are connected to the yellow pages, either directly or they will see our tv and radio advertisements, and that will direct them. they will go to the yellow pages to get more information. what is interesting to me about this whole process here is how few times small business is mentioned. we have been left out of this

whole discussion and all the research. in fact, there has been no research done by any about the -- by anybody about the impact on small business. has just been a guest. one government agency here that mention anything about small business other than the small business commission said there would be minimum impact. how do they know? there was a poll done -- they talk about the harris poll -- who did they talk to? individuals. i do not know how many small business owners their work, but i doubt there were any, and if there were, they certainly were not acknowledged. i think at a time when we have the economic struggles we have an unemployment, and as you know, small businesses are decreasing. i think this type of proposal is very dangerous. i have to remind you that the backbone of this country is small business and san francisco. if we do not make it, people

lose jobs. government people lose jobs. salaries are not paid. i think there needs to be more input from small businesses, and i would urge you not to go in this direction. thank you. supervisor chiu: thank you. next speaker. >> i am a director of sustainability, parks, recycling, and wild life legal defense fund. we are actively engaged in putting an end to cut rate mega dumping, and we are potentially litigated against the recommendation for san francisco's wastes to go to fuel a county. i think the measure before you is what you should be reporting out of this committee to the full board. it is reasonable regulation of business enterprise. it is not an infringement of

free speech. the level of regulation of private business in the united states is far less than those of the industrial democracies of the so-called first world. i would like to make two anecdotal observations. the first is that the landfill you now use which receives about 400,000 tons per year of waste from recology does charge you and your ratepayers 32 cents a ton for recycling education. that accumulates to about $500,000 a year. the department for the environment could apply for a grant of up to $50,000 to facilitate moving an easing out some of the trouble spots. secondly, i am -- well, not a resident of san francisco, but i use your restaurants and especially your cinema, and i have had the experience of looking for a yellow page in a

busy commercial district to find a copy center and not being able to find it. they do not use it. i think the testimony, the proponents support the contention that it may be used by niche markets, but what about a new kind of niche market for really an old one? i come from a small city of 50,000 in indiana. we used to have city directories. what about neighborhood directories that are built around voter registration lists and supplemental efforts and would build community in this city in a way the yellow pages and witter do not -- and litter do not? supervisor chiu: let me call up what i think is the final speaker, and if anyone else wishes to speak, please line up in the aisle.

[reading names] >> thank you, supervisors. in the executive director of the haight-ashbury recycling center. we have been recycling phone books since 1944. i have noticed that when we do recycle old books, many of them come to us in their original wrappers, so i can attest to the fact that a lot of the phone books handed out in the city are not used. the city does a fantastic job of recycling, but that is just one of the three r's. there is also reviews and source reduction -- reuse and source reduction. this legislation would go a long way towards eliminating or reducing unnecessary phone book waste or phone book recycling, for that matter, and it does

follow along the same lines as the plastic bag legislation and styrofoam legislation, what have you, so that is a big reason why i speak in favor of it. there has been some comments about how phone books are distributed to all the offices downtown, the office workers downtown, that those numbers get skewed or something like that. the phone books are a reference book, and downtown in the office, each parent eagle does not have their own lawbooks. they share those reference books. likewise, i think the phone books can be shared by many different office workers, maybe a few books per for, but if there are 100 on the floor, they do not need that many phone books. copper -- finally, being deprived of disaster information if we do not have that information in the phone book,

we can point out that it is in the white pages. i do not want to make light of the situation in japan over the last week or two, but it is clear from the numbers we have heard today and the testimony that we have heard today is that we could build a seawall of the gun used in telephone books during a tsunami. thank you very much. et president mar: thank you. next speaker. >> i am with at&t. statistically valid sample and methodologies. the conclusions are consistent. in contrast, the information provided by supporters of this proposal is anecdotal at best and intentionally misleading at worst. despite our providing data to the contrary.

this is a poor foundation for a policy that have significant ramifications. an industry of fierce competitors put aside their differences where people could opt out. similar in concept to other opt out programs, this program was launched february 1, the day this was introduced. contrary to the suspicions of supervisor chiu. imagine our shock that within hours, we found that. to refer to the small business commission meeting as a robust conversation is laughable and insulting. we found out about the meeting the day it was held. we appreciate concerns regarding the distribution of our product. had the supervisor engaged us in serious conversation, he would have found actions we have taken as responsible citizens,

not as the result of threats. more than 650 locations. we have offered to discuss the substantive issues but have received an underwhelming response. it seems that legislative successes more important than an honest evaluation of the underlying issues. consumer groups, industry, and independent analysts all reached the same conclusion korea the yellow pages remain a viable source for consumers and businesses. [bell] i did not get a 30-second warning. supervisor mar: you did, actually. next speaker, please. >> good afternoon, supervisors. my name is justin. i managed an apartment complex in san francisco for about three years, and while i was there, i became accustomed to the mysterious pile of yellow pages

in the lobby, and out of the 30 or so that were dropped off, maybe three or four were taken out of the lobby, in even after resorting to creative techniques, there just was not a retention. i would end up collecting them and then going in to recycle, and that process would repeat multiple times throughout the year, and it always struck me as extremely wasteful and nonsensical, so any legislation that can move us away from that, i am fully in support of that. they keep. >> thank you. president mar: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. my name is -- with at&t. you have heard from a lot of people today. you have heard from a lot of

people in the past couple of weeks to have voiced their concern either in favor or in opposition. sitting in the clerk's office right now is over 5000 letters concerning this legislation. many of you have received 300 letters to 500 letters in your in box is alone. you have news clips and radio clips of the rally that took place on march 14, and probably at this late hour, we are happy this is happening today and not on march 14, but in any event, several hundred labor, community, consumers, advertisers, distributors would all be negatively impacted by this legislation. the speakers who are here today in support of this legislation have expressed concern over the environment. we share their concern. we absolutely share their concern. we have solutions that can address the environmental issues and others that are raised in

the legislation. i presented to you the sustainability report that shows what the industry has been doing for the last aid to 10 years, on how to minimize the impact to the environment. so we have shared some of those solutions with supervisor chiu. we were hoping we would get further than we are today in those discussions. unfortunately, we are not. their jobs, their livelihood, their businesses are not at stake. you have the ability to address their concerns outlined in the legislation, without the need to put businesses and jobs out of existence. recently, with the passage of the opt out policy, somewhat other business. i do not think you want to do that. they no longer distribute. president mar: thank you very

much. next speaker. >> my name is zig. i published the valley yellow pages. supervisor mar, supervisor wiener, president chiu. there are diversify its of an issue. yet, today, they are standing here standings shoulder to shoulder in opposition of this ordinance. you have heard from the labor council, the ibew, councils and often find themselves on opposite sides. yet, today, they are united in opposition of this bill.

the unity of this diverse coalition is in and of itself very telling. it is truly representative of we the people. i have a long list of things to talk about. unfortunately, two minutes will not do it, but i pray that you will do the reasonable thing. and involve business and those who are stakeholders in this more aggressively than you have in the past. i have heard about this ordinance on the day that supervisor chiu announced this on the steps of city hall. that is not working with industry on an ordinance that could be devastating to our industry. the and he bristled on something i said. it is a defect in a ban on the phone book, which ignores the needs of some 10,000

approximately local advertisers, yellow pages advertisers, that it would tens of thousands of people. you are interfering with an equilibrium with the needs of the community, the needs of businesses, and the needs of those who are involved in the production and distribution of yellow pages. you are threatening jobs. we already had one customer at the end of our sales campaign and called -- who called to say they wanted to cancel because they do not know that you guys are going to be in business one year from now. it has already shown to have an economic impact adversely. we lost a $3,000 sale because of the proposed ordinance. i would like to share with you some statements. i did some research on government regulation, and what is this all about? where the heck is it?

i found a "wall street" op-ed, where there is an article written entitled "a 21st century regulatory system" by barack obama, and it said at the bottom," -- it's said, barack obama is president of united states. what he said is that the american free market has not only been a source of ideas and markets, it has also been the greatest force of prosperity the world has ever known. that a vibrant entrepreneurialism is the key to our continued leadership and success of our people. he also said that sometimes those roles that we have established, regulations have gotten out of bounds, placing an unreasonable burdens on businesses, burdens that have stifled innovation and burdens that have a chilling effect on

growth and jobs. over the past two years, the goal of might administration has been to strike the right balance, and today, i am citing an exhibit of order that makes it clear that this is the operating principle of our government. this order requires that federal agencies and shirt that they protect our safety, health, and environment, while promoting economic growth and orders a government-wide -- to remove the outdated regulations that stifle job creation and make our economy less competitive. he also stated," but we are also making it our mission to rule out conflicts that are not worth the cost." looking at the system as a whole to make sure we avoid excess and redundancy. today, i am directing federal

agencies to do more to account for and reduce regulations placed on small businesses. president mar; thank you very much. thank you very much. >> i urge a no vote. thank you. >> hi, supervisors. my name is aaron. it is interesting he is courting obama. he said there is a very diverse gathering of people here speaking out against the legislation, and as far as i can tell, it is not averse. it seems that there is a common interest, which is money. the industry has said that opt in will not work. it will be too hard to get people to know where to go, how to opt in, and then in the very next breath, they argue for opt out.

there have been two sets of numbers that have been prevented -- presented today. they are presented by people against the registration -- resolution. the others said been presented by those who have a financial interest in it. there have been a lot of people come out of the residents of san francisco with spoken on behalf of this legislation because they believed in it. the only person that has spoke out against it that i remember that was actually a resident was an elderly woman who came up in a wheelchair. everybody else spoke out of fear, it seems like, a fear of business loss, but everybody who wants one will still get one, so that does not make sense, and the woman he spoke out about not being able to get one, i would suggest that whoever did her notes for her would help her to get yellow pages. it does not make a whole lot of sense. somebody mentioned earlier the white pages would still be

distributed. i did not see the benefit of giving everyone the yellow pages. the benefit is less waste. this does not make a whole lot of sense. if it is about getting disaster information to people, and there are only 350,000. this is kind of interesting. and i guess, lastly, i would ask you to support the legislation. i do not know a whole lot about the process, but hopefully, it does not get watered down. president mar: thank you very much. >> i am with at&t. 10,000 small businesses have made the decision to place either a majority of or in some cases all of their marketing efforts in our product. a bad decision on their part can

ruin their business. but it is their decision to make. this ordinance destroys that marketing platform they rely on. the conclusions reached by disparate groups are inconsistent. enacting this ordinance will have severe repercussions, placing thousands of businesses at risk and exposing thousands of people to a realistic, realistic prospect of an informant. thank you. >> one of the goals of this ordinance is to get yellow pages in the hands of real versus imaginary users. the only reason i brought these today is i happen to get my third yellow pages phone book of the year just last week.

the next day happened to be trash day, where everyone puts up their cans, recycling, and i got curious, and i walked out, and i looked through my neighbor's garbage. i looked through 15 of my neighbors' bins, and i found -- found five brand new yellow pages from valley that were in the trash. sydney, that is the question. a person overseeing marketing dollars as a small business, i, too, am told that the cost is based on the circulation number, but the number a real users is the question. so what have the industry done in the last 10 years? it has made some strides in sustainability, on the sustainability point of view, the absolute lowest hanging fruit is to stop massive distribution over and over

again. it is a problem in buildings and other places. there are tons of creative ways to get yellow pages into the hands of users, and we absolutely support that. that is one of the things we hope this ordinance will do, eliminate the people who are not using them and get them into the hands of those who use it. let me give you one example. we have never heard the industry respond to the following scenario that korea put forward a number of times. residents do not have to be home to receive the yellow pages. rather, like ups, leading stickers, just like ups attempting delivery, if you wish to receive a yellow pages phone book, please check the box. we will be that at your door or on the sidewalk. we have never heard a response as to why we cannot use creative solutions to get these into the hands of people who want them. thank you.

president mar: thank you. are there any other people who wish to speak on this? mr. chair, i think public, it is over. supervisor mar: thank you. colleagues, any comments or questions? supervisor wiener? supervisor wiener: i also want to thank the many, many people who came out today, and i said this before, but i want to say again that coming out to the board of supervisors'hearing is not always fun, and it means taking time from one's job or family or live, so i am very appreciative of everyone who took time today