as to take a pay cut. what do you think this will cut a 79 officers will do? -- what do you think those 479 officers will do? >> i cannot speculate. however, under the current concessions that were negotiated between not only the police officers' association but as well as a number of other employee organizations, employees who elect to retire during the time of the concession get their salaries restored so that their pensions are not harmed. and there are provisions in the existing contracts that provide for that. b. enroll -- the enrollees, and concessions with regard to wages would not affect their future pension benefits. since the inception of the drought program, we have 179

members who have been rolled -- who have enrolled. we have a number of officers who have elected to retire prior to their completion date. those are individual choices, different reasons. unfortunately, we have had some officers who have died in the program. we had two. those are considerations that are taken. nonetheless, the issue is still outstanding as to what may transpire in the coming months with regard to the continuation and what impact that may have on the retirement. while we have fought a 79 currently eligible for retirement, the majority of our officers -- what we have 479 currently eligible for retirement, the majority of our officers would like to max out, at age 55 or older. there are a number of combinations that come into play, but that needs to be taken

into consideration in terms of staffing and fiscal responsibility. >> commissioner, one of the big issues, one of the reasons you want academy classes going constantly, is so that you could catch up. if we started tomorrow, they would not be in the field until 2012. commissioner slaughter: that was my concern, too, getting them up to speed. >> by the time the background, processing, the academy, it would not be in a police car until 2012. >> getting back to the scenario, it is good to hear that the officers retirement would be based on the restored volume, what they would have had if they did not take the pay cut. still, if they stay on and make the pay cut, they would be making less by working then by a one home and taking their pension. that is still something that we need to be concerned about. >> we have a number of officers

who enjoy what they do and are dedicated and have maxed out on their pension eligibility and, in essence, what are may be losing money by remaining, and we acknowledge their fine service. it ultimately, looking at how it plays out and depending on what academy classes may or may not be budgeted and when, we have as part of the evaluation of approximately one in four candidates from the eligible list are successful in the background process, and looking at the attrition in terms of those who are successful through the academy program and successful through the infield program and through the probationary status a year after that. >> thank you for providing more detail around the budget. appreciate that. i have several concerns around the elimination of academy

classes and what to understand a little more clearly what goes into the $5 million estimate if the class was to begin in september, for example. of that $5 million estimate, how much of that is attributable to outside costs that we would have to outlay funds and how much is that attributable to a reallocation of internal resources? that instead of being on a program"x," they are now on academy program "y"? >> $4 million of the $5 million in salaries for the recruits. commissioner kingsley: the people being trained, ok. >> and the other $1 million is divided between testing for the

recruits during the background process, hiring people to help with the background process. because of the high-volume that it takes to get 50 candidates into the academy requires additional part-time staff that we bring in on a temporary basis. the testing, the background investigations, the uniforms and accessories for the recruits, and the time at the academy that is over time usually for the instructors, and then premium pay for field training officers who train each of the recruits. commissioner kingsley: in short, 100% of the $5 million is an additional cash outlay for one purpose or another. the background checks done by an outside it -- >> it is -- we bring and part-

time temporary help in the department. commissioner kingsley: 100% is additional cash outlay. none of it is a reallocation of salaries that are being paid any way. >> correct. commissioner kingsley: ok. another question, and this is for the chief as well. i did not know that recruits were paid to attend the academy. for a new commissioner, that is news, and that is 80%, roughly, of the cost of the academy. did i understand that right? >> i think $4 million of that amount is 1 to be the salary. -- is going to be the salary. that encompasses the training and the salary and all of that

combined. we pay the officers in the academy. >> they are employees from day one. they're not sworn in. there in the academy approximately eight months. upon graduation, they become uniformed members and their sworn in. >> and that is not unusual, to be paid while in the academy. commissioner kingsley: and during that eight months, are they providing any services or is it all training? >> that is all classroom training. commissioner kingsley: you say that is usual and customary? >> correct, that is the customary practice of most apartments to pay their officers from the time ago at the academy. one subject we did not talk about, we're looking at, an officer who has worked at another police department, the academy time as much less. they have been trained. they usually have a post certificate from another agency.

the lateral class is what we're looking at. if we hire more laterals, there are a lot of unemployed officers from different departments looking for employment. they save a lot of money as opposed to hiring somebody who has not had any law enforcement experience. >> and the goal is to hire the 18, 19 remaining slots we have under the cost grant by the end of the year. and we will have a combination a combinationtwo or one class, but there academy training is very abbreviated. they are trained and they are certified and ready to be out in the field. in a much shorter time. the up-front costs are the same terms of the go through the

background process and are subject to the same as a field level officer. in many cases, their backgrounds are much more thorough and extensive because they have service time and we are insured they have no issues at their prior agencies and that the best are invited to join the department. president mazzucco: great, thank you. commissioner kingsley: i have additional questions relating to the academy. in general, i'd like to stress that i think this is of utmost importance, too, in terms of whether it is laterals, reallocation of the budget, but to get the people into the academy. if there is any model of another comparable city that provides the education and a different way -- people go to professional schools, colleges, etc., and they're not paid to go.

particularly, with the recidivism rate of people dropping out of the programs for one reason or another, the model, it seems, at least a bit unusual and cumbersome under the circumstances. i don't know if there is some other way of figuring out how to do the academy. >> commissioner, the requirements for the vetting of officers is set by the academy post and its. the academy certifies they insure that they meet the basic post requirements and are certified as basic sworn officers upon completion of the academy. they are encouraged to proceed in their advancement of post certification and training and development, but it is very common not only for officers but that we have apprentices, in

turns, in various capacities, employed through the city -- in turns, in various capacities, a ploy to the city. we encourage them to become members of the city family. commissioner kingsley: thank you. i have a couple questions on other line items, if i may, please. the capital outlay summary. there is half a million being cut there, which is roughly one- third of capital outlay. what are we doing to pull that out? >> are you looking on page one? commissioner kingsley: the character summary. >> that line includes all funds. most of that will be large items that we got with special funds last year, the current year, that we will not be getting for the next fiscal year. that is not a general fund to change, that was a grant.

the general fund change that is theire is not calculated by the department, it is calculated centrally for the city. then the dollar figure is put in our budget. it is about $1 million. for the financing costs. and the other amount is the difference from year to year, grants we are not getting next year. commissioner kingsley: is there anything significant that we need to know about that we're doing without because of that cut back? >> no, because grant funding and special funds are most of the time a onetime purchase. particulate equipment. commissioner kingsley: ok. >> it is something the department gets to spend the money to augment, something we are already doing. most of the time if it is ongoing, it does not qualify.

commissioner kingsley: i understand. the second page, the item that is enumerated, 480-999, that is the same kind of thing? >> grants, and through the state from the federal government, and state grants are down next year. commissioner kingsley: i see this false alarm feet, $600,000 there? >> that is an accounting change. if you look right above that, six under thousand dollar positive, it is a net of zero. -- $600,000 positive, it is a net of zero. it years and years ago there were swapped by accident. commissioner kingsley: ok, thank you. and there is the traffic offender program which seems to be cut in half, budget-wise. on that same page, if we go over

to the use of funds the tell appropriation, -- detail appropriation, that is the same number. and below that is the officer training. but what are we looking at what the traffic offender fund going down by half? >> that is based on the current year revenue. the traffic offender revenue for the current year, because of a change in the department's policy, has decreased by approximately half. for the projection for next year, we are assuming that will continue on this year's path. and not as it had been in prior years. commissioner kingsley: thank you. i think my last question, on the last page, where grants are listed, the american recovery and reinvestment act funded project -- it seemed

significant, having to do with drug use, a human trafficking, and so on. all of those programs have lapsed and they will no longer exist? >> correct. those were stimulus funds, and where the one time stimulus from the federal government. commissioner kingsley: does that mean those programs. i know the grant money has gone away, but what about the programs they were funding? >> because the programs that grants to fund our supplemental, almost 100% of the time, i would -- commissioner kingsley: we are losing it, okay, thank you. commissioner dejesus: thank you for the presentation. i agreed the primary concern is this loss of officers. the fiscal year is june to july, correct? >> it is july 1. commissioner dejesus: what i

would like to hear, you don't have to give it now, but for those of us who would like to try to talk to supervisors or the mayor's office regarding classes -- and i am really glad you explained the $5 million salary. i did not understand you met the recruits. that was helpful for me, and i have been on here a couple years. but what i would like to know, a, basically what it would cost 41 class, allow a rolehires, and how quickly if you got it granted, how quickly cajeput a class together -- how quickly could you put a class together before the fiscal year ends? >> in terms of the cost and

getting grants for hiring, hiring grants are rare. we had a stimulus fund grant, which is what the remaining laterals will be funded with. however, there are no hiring grants that i am aware of now that would apply for. if you hear that, i would be happy to. commissioner dejesus: knowing that we have 19 laterals coming in, what is the drop in number? >> it is about $1 million for the cost leading up to the salary, and then the salary of the recruits. again, if they start in september, it would be about $4 million for the salaries. commissioner dejesus: okay. >> the round figure will always be about $5 million. commissioner dejesus: the next question, i know people have been on the list so long, they have found other jobs elsewhere.

how big is the list and we have one, or do we need to start from scratch? >> we have two current eligible lists, and they are due to expire in the fall. of those, we have combined 624 candidates on both of those lists. the process would be, depending on when a class would be funded and identified, that the vetting process would take -- commissioner dejesus: they would also have to be have to tell us when they need to fund it. what is the latest? i am assuming we could get a class started in august or september. before the list expires. >> there are mechanisms of doing that. we work closely with the department of human resources in terms of the process for identifying and getting eligible lists.

because there were limitations on the number of available academy classes the last few years, backgrounds were suspended for entry-level officers and the candidates remain active. we have not touched these two lists accept checking collaterals -- checking the laterals that were on the list. we would then evaluate what the candidates look like. who is still interested, it is a viable candidate, and as for the vetting process, we have a very vigorous screening process that used to be before one in five is successful, now it is one in four. but it is also investing the time that is associated with that. it takestwo, three months to

do. commissioner dejesus: it sounds like there is urgency because not only do these lists expire but they also have to go through the second half and see if they are still interested. one in five men qualify, and to get a class of -- how many is it? president mazzucco: what is the attrition rate, 30%? >> between 25%-30%. president mazzucco: you figure you'll lose about 15. you end up with only 35. you almost have to have 100, two classes of 50, to have enough. because you will lose about 15 from each class. commissioner dejesus: i understand that, the amount of the class and the urgency. i'm more about the expiration of the lists and also completing of the process. what is the drop dead deadline to get funding and have

approved, and one with the class b up to start? >> we would evaluate whether it is best to proceed with these lists or to look at getting a fresh list of candidates to have more recent candidates who would perhaps be better suited to have the opportunity to really have a fresh list and look at candidates. those are ways, in terms of the time line, that we then establish a backward calendar based on what the funding allocations are determined. >> the other issue, you have names on there who may already have a job. i have talked to every supervisor and explain to them the issue we have here is far is losing bodies. we talk about community policing and foot beats, and that is where these come from. we definitely need more police

officers, and i know the mayor is very concerned about it. i speak to him probably once a week about it. when the board of supervisors is concerned. i agree, we're getting to a perfect storm in reference to we are losing uniformed officers and the department out of the field on a daily basis, and we really have to figure out how we will come up with that funding to have more officers. at president mazzucco: thank you. thank you, miss lannes. mahnke, chief. this commission has had a lot of questions regarding this issue. -- fenty, chief. thank you for all your hard work. it is not easy. we need to get the issue out so we don't have a crisis situation. when these 479 officers decide they're going to retire. just before we go to public comment, one suggestion, we should take advantage of the

ability to bring back the retired officers, and that is something that i think we get experienced, well-trained, veteran officers. i was wondering about that status. the talent pool has been trained, cleared, and has proven themselves already. >> commissioners, it is primarily a funding issue. like many of the prop f employes, they are hired against grant funds and special projects. the limited capacity, we have limited numbers of prop f. we rely on investigators. we have the academy currently working on the laterals. it is part and parcel of the value and cut expenditures are going to be determined t, and tn

dedicating sufficient funds for the retirees. president mazzucco: my point is once we have the attrition rates, it would be easier to fill them with part-time officers than the full package for a new officer, and they can hold down the fort, so this be, until we can bring the department back up to speed. i talked to many officers, they stay on because they love the job. some are working for less money than it would get if they had retired based on the pension system and benefits, but a lot of officers would be willing to work part-time, two days a week instead of five days a week. we need to take advantage of that when we move into this crisis situation, using the normal funding we have. it is something i have suggested for a while. an example, the airport. that would be a great place to have a veteran police officer at the airport, great ambassadors.

it would be a good idea to put them out there and we have savings doing that. it is an idea i had been tried to pass on the last three years. soon we may now have no choice but to do it. >> we have extended service to our potential retirees, inquiring if they are interested. some are, some are looking to enjoy their retirement. nonetheless, we have that. president mazzucco: great. >> fiscal constraints. commissioner dejesus: i just want to change gears. i thought there were certain questions that we have to have a budget update on regarding tasers and weapons. i don't need it tonight, but i thought there was a set of questions we have specifically asked for an update of that on the budget. >> there is no currently but budget amount of money for

tasers in the department. commissioner dejesus: do we know how much it would cost to get everyone in the department a taser? >> not yet. we have begun a study. >> we have a list of questions that we will get updated on. am i mistaken this was not going to be covered in the budget? >> commissioner, if you have specific questions, we are prepared to answer them. we went all over the specific questions the commission presented. >> i thought there were some questions regarding the questions and whether they were accurate. we responded they were accurate. i don't know if i have the questions with me. president mazzucco: i spoke to

commissioner chan before we what -- before she went to memphis. she said she anticipates bringing back a lot of information from memphis. i believe she has gone there with a rather large group of folks from the police department and from occ and from the mental health community. so we're holding off on that until she comes back and we're able to meet with her and capt.. that was one area that we are going to speak to, but we will hold off until they come back. >> ok, the cit. the money was or the money come from fort t tasers. is the department including

money for the equal access to service ordinance, which is san francisco wide. those are questions i thought we would have answered tonight. >> in terms of language access, the department spends about $65,000 per year for translation and interpretation, plus printing costs for pamphlets and things like that. there is no additional money in next year's budget for those costs. however, if they go up, i would be happy to look at absorbing any increase. commissioner dejesus: what was the number? >> about $65,000 for translation and interpretation. commissioner dejesus: okay, we

wait for cit. and i had questions about the tasers, for the equipment and training. >> commissioner, we're still putting it -- we're still looking at all the options. we have not even begun to look at how much it would cost for training and where the funding would come from. commissioner dejesus: i put this out because the first part of the question is how much will it cost for the new mental health training and how much it would cost for tasers so we would have a comparison. president mazzucco: 50. any public comment regarding the budget? seeing none, next item. >> the want to go to closed session? president mazzucco: item number two is public comment regarding