>> right. the agreement was to be 12th furlough days in each of the two fiscal years, 10-11 and 11-12. they're scheduled to end and the savings would end as well. all of the contract comes up for negotiation at the end of the 11-12. >> we're working with the budget office on the three-year projection report which will be complete and you'll see the impact of these expiration's in the three-year outlook. supervisor chu: in the current year, 12 furlough days and next year, we count 12 days of savings and the next year, we will see an increased back up because those 12 furlough days will no longer be in place? >> exactly. supervisor chu: the dental looks like it's an ongoing savings? >> it is an ongoing savings.

supervisor chu: thank you. >> turning to slide 6, san francisco is now the only jurisdiction in california to have binding interest arbitration in the event there is an impasse between labor and the city. it is very common for safety unions to have that. very uncommon for that to be the case with miscellaneous employees. we have seen in past years that interest arbitration is a way to bring back in recalcitrant unions. so we have actually had the ability to bring those employes into the same pattern set by the labor council. in a last round, we had interest arbitration by station engineers and the electricity -- the electricians, and the arbitrator awarded 3.7% -- of awarded3.75%

wage reduction -- with the furlough day, he worked one day last pay period we consider that to be a good arbitration award for the city. likewise, the local six arbitration award, the arbitrator matched the pattern and awarded 12 furlough days. the police officers association and firefighters each gave an average -- gave up 8% over two years, an average of 4% per year. in the case of the firefighters, their wage deferrals and savings was conditional. if the city were to close firehouses or stop operating emergency apparatus or if it increased the average workweek for firefighters, those concessions would stop. that was agreed to in the last

round. that protection extends for the same two years. likewise, the nurses, another group with raises coming gave up an 8% economic concession, an average of 4% per year for two years. supervising nurses have been leading the way year after year and actually gave much more than the pattern, giving up 12.5% in economic concessions over two years with an average of 6.2%. likewise, doctors and dentists, also went above and beyond the pattern in their last round. again, the total savings for this two-year concession deal was over $235 million, which we feel was a historic achievement not only by the city's labor teams but unions and labor stepping up and speaking in one voice. supervisor chu: thank you.

supervisor mirkarimi: i just want to go back to an earlier frame and get some information you may have to follow up with. bonn fte's for safety unions -- the numbers you have on page 3 -- >> your question is are we below the charter number? supervisor mirkarimi: i know we are above in terms of aggregate personnel, but it is well leveraged in reminding us we are well below it, it is helpful if we break out what exactly does this 2590 mean? >> we would be happy to break that down. supervisor mirkarimi: 2 you have any assumption on what that looks like in terms of active, sworn officers?

>> the department has been very active along with their division of workers' compensation in attempting to return people to work. they have fairly high rates of injury and that's one of the factors. there are a number of people on light duty the department is working on bringing back. there is obviously going to be a disconnect there. we will speak to the departments and get a run of how many people are on light duty or on medical leave as opposed to those who are actively on the street, if that is the question. supervisor mirkarimi: i haven't seen, but maybe you have something on the drop program. it would be nice to get an idea on the question of attrition as we're seeing what the drop-off rate might be with anybody retiring. i was looking ahead on the frame slide and i did not see that.

>> we did not include the drop on this analysis. it came directly from the voters and was not negotiated. it has resulted in -- we can produce a report for you on the demographics. i know that the comptroller is preparing a report for your review on the city's experience of the drop. anecdotally, we don't believe the reasons people were interested in the deferred retirement option program several years ago along the exist. we no longer have a retention problem as we did at that point and the existing salary structures we have are sufficient to retain the work force we have on the police department. supervisor mirkarimi: this 2590 figure is representative of the people have taken the drug program. what i am looking for is a breakdown to understand, especially those who may have been on the cusp of retiring who have come back.

having a little more diagram on the 2590 on that total. the general public thinks by listening to other representations that our police department is significantly understaffed based on the charter amendment. this number says just the opposite. >> a couple of quick points. our office is working on the voter initiative requires on a report on the drop program which will be presented to the board of supervisors on april 15th. the board of supervisors has the discretion to retain the program, but we are working on a report that will be available shortly. >> as it relates to the fte's on the other unions -- i know about the deputy sheriffs, but it would be good in that category of we could get a similar kind of breakdown bond -- break down on those are activated -- that would like to know what those

aggregates fte's actually break down to. >> i know we will be talking about this when we have the police department here. you are looking at the total fte for police officers. the voter initiative, proposition d speaks to 1971 full police officers in the city. there are differences in the numbers. supervisor mirkarimi: i think it helps us explain, at least from that number, the other 600 and what it represents. i don't think anyone would know what that 600 is. is it administration or somebody working the property room? we don't really know. >> we will drill down as to active duty, all light duty, medically on leave, with respect to police officers, we will get cheaper enrollment on the drop. as i recall, it is not a large number, to under so as i recall. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you.

supervisor wiener: if i could just get clarification on what you said about the drop -- my understanding was sent 25% of the department is eligible to retire, we may have a retention problem. could you clarify what he meant by that? >> it depends on if you think retention is a problem. we have a contract provision that provides an additional -- what is it 6%? for officers to induce them to stay up to age 60. in addition, sadly, many public agencies in the region have cut back on their police force. with the assistance of the civil service commission, we have set up a program to quickly recruit laterally hired police officers. they require a shorter academy. i think it is six weeks.

they are experienced officers. i would not say it's always a problem -- i would -- it's always a problem when you lose experienced officers, but we don't anticipate difficulty finding people to fill those positions and bringing them up to full duty. supervisor wiener: that is not consistent with what the chief of police is saying. another may be a lot of views around this. >> we will have a conversation with the police department. dhr's duty is to look at the information we have before us. supervisor wiener: i appreciate that. i think they are of the view if we do not have significant numbers of police academies in the next few years, this size of the department terms of sworn

officers could go down by 25%. >> i don't disagree that we need to fill them. we need to have academies for collateral, fall and new entrants into the profession so people will leave. i agree there will be turned over, what i don't agree as we have to go to great lengths to get people not to leave. supervisor wiener: the concern is we have not had an academy in several years and it's unclear we will be budgeting for it. thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: on that point, doesn't a salary increase for some of the public safety kick in in july? >> yes. it is the next slide -- we have july 1st of 2011 which will likely be about 3%. supervisor mirkarimi: 3% is only

3%, but if someone were to actually retire, they would have to stay in 12 months to realize that 3%, wouldn't they? >> unless they were hired before the 1970's. supervisor mirkarimi: i think this needs to be extended into not just what may happen in 2011, but the forecast for the next four years, potentially, as somebody may retire predicator on the fact that they are going to want to retire and either take advantage of that salary increase. what we have been noticing with other safety unions is there has been less retirement. in the sheriff's department other has been a lot less retirement. i know they have the rays coming up as well. >> exactly. for a place where not at maximum, there is an incentive to stay an additional year and get the benefit.

even if you are at the maximum, the final compensation changes. it has the potential to keep people longer. supervisor chu: thank you. i also want to share we will be having the police department come in to present their budget and talk through a little bit about retention, class issues and community policing among other things. i also want to support supervisor mirkarimi and his request about the 2590. we need more information on how many actives are going to fill their charter duties. in addition, if i'm understanding supervisor wiener and academy class is and what the police force is going to be, i would like to have dhr work with the department to have less understand if there's a way to get light duty officers are folks not currently assigned to their posts, is there something we are not moving quickly as

enough to get them back on the street if they're ready to be working in the community? with regards to discipline issues, i know a number of officers are not currently on the streets because they may have pending discipline is use or considerations at the police commission. to the extent there is any process to dispense with those and have them heard and be able to get people to conserve back on the streets, that would be another way to think about how we could put folks back on the streets and help with many of our objectives, whether it is community policing more other things. just to go back to your slide, which is slide 6, each one of these other concessions you have talked about look like they are one time in nature. or actually to time in nature, this current year and next year, right? >> that is correct. supervisor chu: out of the total year savings out of $235 million, unless things change in

contract negotiations, only $3 million will be on going? >> $3 million for the health -- that is a fair statement. supervisor chu: we got concessions of $235 million over two years, but unless there are changes in contracts, we only expect a $3 million savings every other year thereafter? >> that is correct, although all of the contracts will be up next year and we will be bargaining. we don't really know -- i don't think anyone on the labor side expects a raise at that point. supervisor chu: thank you. >> would you like us to continue with the slides? chart seven shows the scheduled wage increases for either this fiscal year or the next. as you can see, the groups that had raises on the table dating back three or four years, those

raises have in most cases been pushed and pushed and pushed anders still on the books. -- have been pushed and pushed and pushed and are still on the books. slide #8, in terms of open contracts, to the district attorney investigators and then committee on interns and residents. we are at the bargaining table now scheduling our introductory sessions. we also have the annual unrepresented ordinance which deals with the compensation for a very small number of folks not represented by unions. you will be hearing more about that as the charter deadlines approach. we have almost every contract open except police and fire. next year will be a very big year for -- from the labor negotiating perspective. we will be consulting with the

board as we go along toward that project. page nine is a little bit of history about our police salaries. you can see that in the early 2000's, they had been allowed to fall fairly far behind the market, as far below its 12% below market. starting in about 2006, we put them on a salary-based schedule to bring them back up to market. we started with bringing them 50% toward market, 20% toward market and bring them to market, we are slightly ahead at almost 2% above market for the first time in at least 10 years. supervisor mirkarimi: could you explain to me what you are evaluating as market? what is the median you are comparing to? >> we can provide you the list. they were a list of

jurisdictions negotiated in to that contract. in essence, the bureau of labor statistics jurisdictions are comparable. supervisor mirkarimi: are you doing that are out california or the country? >> the bay area. >> the largest cities and the surrounding counties. it has sent us -- it has berkeley, cities in the region we consider to be our market. >> the next slide, page 10, is a quick vacation of how the firefighters' salaries are compared to market. for decades and decades and decades, fire salaries have been tied to police salaries. in 2008, they were about 5.4% above market. in 2009, 7.73%. we expect them to be about 18% above market as of july 1st,

2011. these are based on yearly salaries, not hourly salaries. fire suppression employees in san francisco have a shorter workweek than average. >> is there a reason you did not display this with police salaries? >> the data goes back further because of the negotiations in 2006. we had to run data surveys to show how they fell behind market and what it took to get them to market. because of the parity connection we had, we do not benchmark, we don't have records of surveying those classifications going back that far because we do not have a need to. >> could you describe why these are so much above market? >> because of parity.

they are tied to police salaries or firefighter salaries and vice versa. the police market frankly has been rising more than a buyer for the surrounding communities. supervisor mirkarimi: i did not hear the last part of what you just said. >> the police salaries have gone up not only in san francisco, but that's a reflection of how have gone up in other jurisdictions because we have surveyed them. i do not believe the salaries are going up at the same rate for firefighters in other jurisdictions. supervisor mirkarimi: in the assessment about what is market that might be of similar size to city, county, san francisco. i guess we're talking about san jose-ish, do you look at their

overall police budget in terms of what the aggregate budget is? i'm curious now as they question was raised about the number of 2590 f for at thee's of san francisco. -- for the fte's of san francisco. >> we are restricted to and evaluate the market position with respect to other agencies. other charter factors include the ability to pay, for example. but that would be the only way the size or percentage of the budget of the police would come in. that's not something we would normally have access to in terms of information. but basically, our drive to bring the police up to the market over the last six years

or so is reflected in higher increases in fire because they were linked by parity. that has created a disconnect because the fire market is so much lower now than it used to be compared to police. supervisor mirkarimi: i'm looking at the fire a salary and it shows and 18.3% above market. it is eye-catching. >> yes. when you adjust for the hourly rate, it's on the order of 34%. supervisor mirkarimi: is it safe to say -- a general rule is it's about 83% of the budget is the personnel, salaries and staff? are we still using that as a general rule or general bench? >> i don't have the precise numbers in front of me, but for safety, police and fire, 80% to

90% is salary and fringe. supervisor mirkarimi: this may be too much information, but on the question of salaries, to get some information on parity, we want our safety workers to benefit from -- i would really love to see more comparison on the actual budgets. if i'm not mistaken, our police budget is about $444 million. it gives me a per-capita understanding of how officers we use for a population of a population for 805,000 people in san francisco. is that the same level of thinking in terms of strategically understanding of value of what we need compared to san jose, who's a police budget is significantly less than ours but has a population that is more. i'm trying to grapple with at as to why those numbers seem to be

a converse of themselves. >> we have done a number of different studies and reviews over the police and fire department and we can come when the police and fire department budgets are before the committee in the coming weeks and share that information on comparisons of us verses others. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. >> on slide 11, we have some very high elevation altitude overviews. in terms of salaries, how we compare to other jurisdictions, these very depending on classifications. we have a number of classifications which have historically been slightly over market, primarily due to pay equity exercises the city went through in the mid-1980s to try to adjust the salaries of

classifications held by women, racial minorities, etc. some of their clerical classis, custodial classes consistently show up as being over market. we have many classifications we believe are at market. every year, we are approached by you in to bring is data that suggest particular classifications are under market. we do our best, we do our jobs, which is to survey other jurisdictions and confirmed that is the case. if that is the case, as starkly we have made market adjustments. when the comparisons they have made are not accurate ones, we maintain the status quo. in 2008, with the economic crisis, we have said no to virtually every request for increased compensation other than the ones that were scheduled before in -- before 2008. >> my take away from this is we

are either at market or over market in almost everything? >> that would be a fair statement. >> could you provide us with the underlying data and you are looking at? >> we would be happy to provide you with what ever data we are looking at. in the era before collective bargaining which began in 1991, we set salaries by a benchmarking system. a massive benchmarking system. we used consultants to compare a salary standardization index. they surveyed hundreds and hundreds of classifications and there were squabbles about what would be the proper benchmark for classifications between carpenters and style setters or laborers. that we don't do now. now we have collective bargaining and we respond and survey the classifications at issue. probation officers will come in and bring data showing they believe they are over market and

we evaluate that. it is more sporadic, there are certain hot-button classifications like parking, patrol officers, miscellaneous safety, we have issues of compaction, a deputy sheriff's supervisors claiming they are underpaid verses other supervisors. it is no longer methodical in terms of surveying hundreds of classes we would be happy to provide you an overview. >> typically, what we will do is for preparation for bargaining, a is easy for deprivation officers to do that survey. we don't do them every year, but we will provide our most recent ones. bore a large union, we would look at the most populous classifications to get a sense of where we sit and the market. we might look at the custodian's or the biggest clerical or any at issue.

we don't do them -- the civil service will also require us to do certain surveys annually -- police -- it's different market what we do for police. it's a little confusing for people. the one we use in the negotiations are the ones you see before you. they're different from the historical and the civil communicate -- a civil service fees. we will provide those they are not necessarily the same market basis we would use in negotiations. we will scour our most recent surveys for you but it's not all 1200. >> another question that comes up is salaries at the top of various agencies. i'm wondering are you going to provide us with analyses of the salaries at the very top of different departments and how that compares with comparable jobs in other cities?

>> typically, when a position becomes open, let's say a department head exits and it falls to me to negotiate depurate, i have our comp unit do a survey and that forms the basis of our offer, if you will. but we have the department had five, department head for, department had three and they made it very unique markets. the structure of our compensation is very broad. there are many ranges in the classification structure to allow us to respond to the market whether it is fair or not. a person with a similar education who has a ph.d. in sociology verses an engineer, the market drives it differently. we have flexibility in response of market, so not able to give of market, so not able to give you a survey for department had