i don't think it is fair to anybody. it could down the line require charter amendments, but there is nothing -- other cities in california do it in drastically different ways. i think we need to consider whether there might be other ways that deal with discipline that are more efficient. it is my view much how it works. if there are ways we can do it, and if charter amendments are a hassle and you -- if we can make a compelling case i think we ought to consider it. commissioner kingsley: commissioner slaughter you were out when we -- commissioner slaughter: i apologize. commissioner kingsley: no, i wanted to clarify and bring you up to date with this as well. i know you expressed an interest

on day one with this. the chief has offered to arrange a meeting with members of the commission that are working on this with folks in los angeles to look at their system. because it works well for l.a. again, not in mind of transporting that system to san francisco, but just to take a look at how another city does it and does it efficiently and effectively. maybe there are pieces that can be borrowed and applied in san francisco. so i know that that's an important issue to you. >> i appreciate it. thank you. >> commissioner hammer. i know we're getting late tonight. commissioner hammer: i know we're getting late tonight, but but the docket is half of what it was over a year ago.

it was a crisis at one point. i don't think it is a crisis anymore. we can always do better. i think it is useful, and i think we should agendize it to talk about what a subcommittee is going to do. my understanding was more like commissioner dejesus' was that to ensure it was within the law. did i most of the work along with ms. blitz, the unsung hero back there. she worked very hard on a set of revigs which i think helped, and these more recent ones are a minor tweak. and then we will vote on those. a thought we had a subcommittee to keep looking into better tweaks of the system. if we are going to empower subcommittees or groups, we should talk about that openly. i don't think that was the idea of this committee. i'm open to it, but we should talk about that if we're going to empower the three of us to do that. i would suggest at this point

because we're going into the next agenda item, is that we agendize a thoughtful agenda. i think it is creeping beyond what the intention was. that's my suggestion. commissioner kingsley: commissioner hammer i think that's a good suggestion. i wanted this discussion to take place with the whole commission. but also i think it is important to have discussions with the most important commone -- components of this to find out what's work and what could be working better in terms of a new systems and system and the refiguring or retooling of our existing system and that's why these preliminary discussion rs taking place with the idea of then coming back to the commission. when we finally get it agendized. to, you know, focus in on a

gameplan. dr. marshall? vice president marshall: what is the committee doing now? we have you can agendize to open up the purpose of the committee, but i don't see why it can't continue doing what it is doing. let the committee do what it is doing. president mazzucco: commissioner hammer, i'm getting looks from the -- that we've really gone far astray. commissioner hammer: i think it

is important that we have a brief conversation about that. not that any of us stop doing what we're doing but that we're of one mind about what this commission is going to do. commissioner chan: i agree with commissioner hammer we should clarify. president mazzucco: ok. we'll put that in the agenda. let's move on to commission announcements and scheduling of items identified for consideration at future commission meetings. any commission announcements? commissioner hammer: no. president mazzucco: i think we have discussed this at issue so we can look at the perceptions of the community and provide them with facts and a response to the perceptions and allegations. i think we owe it to the

communities and the officers assigned to the jttf. we need to have a meeting, not a prolonged meeting about this, but a meeting where we put all the cards on the table that can be put out there. with that in mind, there is talk about having community meetings. we have had a lot of community meetings during the chief's selection process. i have been advised richmond station cannot get it together in time for the filing? >> we had a one-day notice and there was a 15-day retirement. the other people weren't available. >> the day we picked for that? zwr we were looking at april 20. >> my suggestion is that either april 20 or april 27 we have a joint meeting with the human rights commission. >> 27th we have a large discipline case. >> do i have an agreement? >> i'm not here that day.

i know it is my fault i'm not here that day. but if it is possible to have it , that would be great. we should also check in with some of the community members to see if that day works for them. we can do it off line. president mazzucco: let's do that promised executive director sparks i -- we would do that. let's put that on for the 20th for our agenda to discuss what the subcommittee is going to be made up of and what the goals are. the target for working toward a complete charter amendment and working in other areas frequent in los angeles or is it more of a tweaking of the rules we have been tweaking which have sped up the process. again, we want participation from the o.c.c., the p.o.a., because i know no matter what we

do, there will be a push to move things along. let's schedule that for the 20th. commissioner hammer, your advice on that? >> i think it's fine. >> commissioner chan? commissioner hammer: i actually had something else. you were asking me a question. i wanted to add something about future meetings. are you fine with the 20th, commissioner kingsley? commissioner kingsley: absolutely. commissioner hammer: because she is was taking the lead on that. i would ask maybe next week during the chief's report that we sh have a brief update on the status as far as allegations surrounding videotapes, et cetera, et cetera. we have talk bd it all. president mazzucco: commissioner chan? commissioner chan: i second that, too. i wanted to ask if this group is

ok with giving an award to some of the groups involved with dealing with the gang violence issues. these groups worked in close collaboration with the chief to deal with gang violence on a real basis. i think we should recognize that work. if it is ok with inch, i will work offer -- if that's ok with everyone, i will offer that off line. president mazzucco: p.m. 7-2. . -- president mazzucco: item 7-d.

we'll open it up ot public. >> i would like to discuss item 7-d. i have here the homicide data year to date. i'm not sure if i am reading it correctly. i don't work with the sfpd. i'm not a commissioner. it says 19 hom sides. 122010. -- 12 for 2010. are we exploding to the up-side in homicides? and two, on the data here, it is not clear what it said in terms of the number of solved homicides. maybe the clearance rate is the solving rate. i don't know. two, the data related to gangs doesn't seem consistent with

what is taking place in the media. you only have one latin gang member that shot somebody? we have a trial going on just monday, multiple murders over the past decade. i'm asking these queezeques. i don't know. -- i'm asking these questions, i don't know. i think on the future agenda on a monthly basis, there should be a discussion about the murder rate solved and unsolved in the city and county of san francisco. so we know about it. >> i know one of the ride rs -- i know one of the authors

watches these programs and seems to come up with a great article. maybe he can come up with the solve rate. i know one of the speakers that spoke said there was a shortage of investigators? 12 vs. 16? don't quote me on that. that we don't have enough police investigators. that with can't solve these crimes? what's going on here. does anyone have information related to that? they don't have enough smart investigators to do the job or they are being bowled over by the number of murders in the city? i would like to know. i think a lot of people would like to know exactly what the murder rate in the city is, who is getting murdered, who what murders are getting solved. thank you. >> any further public comment? hearing none. >> item 8 is public comment on all matters pertaining to item

10 below. closed session for disciplinary cases, including a public comment on whether to hold item 10 in closed session. >> any comment on the closed session disciplinary session? hearing none. >> item 9 is >> have a motion whether or not to disclose the matters in closed session? do i have a second? all in favor? public comment? next item, please?

new i have a motion? thanks, everybody.

>> san francisco's buses and trains serve many riders who are blind or how low vision. muni is their lives line to get around. simple act of courtesy can help

them access muni services safely. it is not just courtesy. it is the law. >> i used to take the 21 airlock. >> lot of times, when i would be waiting at the bus stop, the door would open and the driver would announce the bus line. >> 71. >> it is easier and preferable when a driver sees someone who is obviously visually impaired if they stop in front of me and say "this is the 71," "this is the seven." >> our buses are setup to announce the lines when we pull up. when i see a customer with a guide dog or cane, make sure i let them know what line i am. >> every time i get on the bus, i tell the driver where i need to get off, even if i think there digital voice system is going to announce that.

just so they know in the event that it is not working. i would say a good amount of the time, i do get acknowledgment, actually. >> good morning. >> morning. is your announcements system working? >> i'm sorry, it is not. >> could you let me know when we get to van ness and sacramento? >> i sure will. >> i have had a number of drivers be really helpful in terms of getting passengers to move down a few seats so i can sit in the front. >> can somebody give this lady a seat? >> the bus driver was say, "please wait a moment. i want to make sure you have a seat." and i hear him or her announced that he needs a seat for a person with a disability. >> as soon as the person gets on the bus, i ask the passengers if we can have a seat for this person. >> anybody help us? thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> sides, federal law requires

that the customers give their seats to the elderly and disabled if they should need it. >> buses should stop in zones that can accommodate multiple lines will stop behind one another. i cannot see what bus is behind -- i'm not even sure if there is a bus behind. the second bus does not come up to the front. oftentimes, it has caused me to be passed up by bosses, by trains, and again, it makes me late for appointments. it makes me late for my job. >> i'm often anxious that i'm going to miss the bus that i need, simply because i'm not fast enough to scamper down and find out which bus is lined up behind the bus that is currently in front of me. what i'm going to work and i take the van ness street buses to work, sometimes, one of them

will pull up right next to the other one. not in a bus stop, but parallel to it. and i do not know it is there. i also do not feel comfortable walking out into the street. >> is that my boss over there? i think that is my boss -- bus. i'm going to miss it. i don't know how many times i have missed buses because of this. >> i do not double park. it is not safe for our customers, and especially the visually impaired. anything could happen, and it is muni's policy not to double park. normally what i do, if i can safely go in behind, i pull in the zone, offload my customers, load the customers that are waiting for me. when the bus in front of the leaves, i will pull to the front for the customers that did not see me.

>> sometimes, the bus pulls up, and there is stuff in my way because the boys -- bus has not pulled up right in front of me. i have to figure out how to get around or through. i have to navigate through all of that in order to get onto the bus. >> when i pick up a visually impaired customers, i like to pull up right in front of them, make sure nothing is in the way so they can walk right on the coach. >> okay, take one big step forward. >> when i drop off a visually impaired customers, make sure you do not pull up at the shelter. you want to give them a straight shot so they can go to the left or the right. you want to pull in front or behind the shelter. never around any trees or pose. i usually let them know that they have about 10 feet before you. a straight shot, and wallace 10 feet away, and they can make the

decision what they want to do from that point. every now and then, and visually impaired customer wants to be dropped off right at the shelter. so they can go to the left or the right from there. >> ok, you want to take one big step when you step off. the shelter is straight ahead. >> if i get on the bus and asked a bus driver to please tell me when to get off at seven straight, the bus driver very often will tell me to just look at the sign, and i will say that i cannot see the sign because and visually impaired. sometimes, the bus driver gets it. some of the time, the bus driver does not get it at all. it is really difficult when you do not see well to understand where things are. it is one of those issues where people do not see it from the outside. so when they see me having problems stepping off of curbs or stairs or running into the

side of a building or things like that, it would appear to them as though maybe i had been drinking, but the problem is that there is no contrast between a great building and a sidewalk. >> it is difficult for some drivers i think to understand that i am blind. although i may look like i'm getting along very well, and it did happen to me on several occasions with drivers, questioning my ability to see. they would say, "well, you really are not that blind." not only is that infuriating, but it is just something that cuts to my core. >> there are times that visually impaired customers get on the bus, and they are moving so well that makes me wonder how blind they are, but that is not for me to decide. i'm just here to take them some point a to point b safely. >> i moved all the way across