people can dispute those. we're certainly happy to come back and respond to every single one of those. >> that is sort of where i was going. this is where my lincoln gets me in trouble. -- link gets me in trouble. where do we go from here with this? we have the report. it came in january. it lays out some pretty serious issues. i did not know about them. i have not really heard anything to address these issues. that is the top player here. and in the second layer for us,

for me, the compliance issue. it is funny because the department has laid his back on us. it means an oversight of this body. we tried to do some of that oversight. we have a couple of things going on here. the controls report and oversight of his body of patrol special, they have not been successful. i want to know what we're going to do here. what is the game plan? i hoped we can come up with that in the next few minutes.

that is my request. >> i think i have a game plan after hearing the presentation. i will get to you and commissioner hammer. you ask that they have their certificates sen. we can't operate not knowing whether they have insurance are not. that would be negligent given our role. i would ask that you have proof of insurance in by 5:00 on friday. a the other seriously and i am looking for, if we're going to see this, how may control specialist officers do we have? i want an exact number by next wednesday evening. other active patrol specials. if we have to go out and see if there is still active, if they are still able to function, it

needs to be done. it has been thrown back in our lab. we need to know the answer to that question. we also need to get some more parameters about the actual been that the officers have. when was the last time that he has been sold? for how much? i do this because the issue that was raised with compliance, there was no compliance. a lot of good will and a lot of things said. but no compliance. dr. marshall said the uniform. i ask that according to the rules, each and every patrol special reports to the district station at the beginning of his or her watch for uniformed inspection and vehicle inspection to make sure they are in compliance.

i have asked lieutenants of different stations, have passed on the sgt. i cannot be driving down a street and seeing a patrol special out of uniform smoking a cigar. i cannot be driving down chestnut street and see a patrol special out of uniform. that has to stop. now back in our realm, this is the police commission and need the full vote of the commission. i should relay this to you. this is my opinion. i think the police department has fallen responsibly to start doing this. i think you have an obligation to do it. commissioner kingsley: is there a separate breakdown for patrol special?

>> and they do not have jurisdiction over patrol specials. commissioner kingsley: thank you very much. >> [inaudible] there have been nine complaints. they have received three telephone calls wanting to know what they do with complaints that arise from the patrol specials. 9 currently, seven with management control, and two of them. >commissioner kingsley: the occ might refer them to you.

i am wondering how many complaints are coming forward? i know we are seeing them. >> those are the numbers i have seen since i have taken responsibility. there are seven outstanding into before the commission for resolution i think it was sent back to the chief. six's more of a fair number. if there are any complaints, as them to document those complaints have to send them to a management control. they will send them to me, or

retain those complaints for investigation. commissionerking kingsley: how many complaints have there been? >> since i have been there, nine. >> i came in july of 2010. it was introduced to the sergeant that was not promoted in november. i have assumed command of with correspondents. >> you are aware of about nine. >> if i might add to the answer, my response to you. when they received complaints for an individual over whom the occ does not have jurisdiction, then we will refer those complaints to the appropriate agency.

>> into the patrol special office? >> that is correct. what i am telling you, which have received complaints regarding law enforcement activities involving many different agencies, for example. complaints about things that happened in the jails. to order for those to the share of's department. >> they go to san francisco police department? the investigative department? >is that the route?

a >> i don't have an answer to that question. i believe it is internal affairs. >> become planes but, then will be documented and sent to the police department management control or internal affairs. it will go to the internal affairs division. from there, some of the cases are assigned to my office for disposition investigation. some of them are retained based on the severity or retained with the internal affairs division. >> those of the ones that we see. >> they will eventually end the before the police commission. commissioner kingsley: how you

handle the ones that are not processed through the the police department? >> it will come to me through investigation. we will have the patrol special comment. the facts gathered, conclusion a. that information is forwarded back to management control and internal affairs for a secondary review where the lieutenant in the risk manager will sign off on a disposition. and they will have the information given back to the patrol special. commissioner kingsley: thank you. >> everything that i have asked for tonight has already been mandated by the rules and procedures. these have been in effect for many years if not pursuant to the revisions, we are getting the feeling that the food side

is that the police department has to compel the compliance. everything i have asked for tonight, i have in doing it individually. and my role as a police commissioner, i am asking for what has already been promulgated. it will follow up on these rules and ensure that they are enforced. in order to make the patrols better, we need to enforce compliance. i wanted to make that clear. commissioner hammer: i will try to be brief. let's get to the punch line. they want to close it down. the whole report is how to close it down. i met with that group right after i joined the commission. it seems like they were biased. i don't know what happened.

it seems that a very adversarial thing developed. i don't know whose fault that was. it seems like they had made their mind about that they wanted to shut them down. i don't. i have lived in the neighborhoods they have served. i am here in the memory of jane warner. she was an extraordinary person. not perfect. but she was an incredibly warm face and person who happens to wear a uniform. she was a resource that talk people out of committing crimes. when things got really heavy, police officers came in and did what police officers will do. they should not be trying to do what most of the sfpd does. if you have seen them up close, it will be like supervisor wiener who submitted a letter

tonight. this is from a letter that is dated today. ending or severely curtailing the police program will have a negative impact on my district and neighborhood. doing so will deprive residents of a good public safety option. one that does not replace the police, but rather provide a valuable supplement. that is exactly what they are. over the past years, they have been very flawed. it happens too much. that has got to change. my suggestion is that we need a complete restart. the only way that will happen is if from top to bottom, we update the rules. we have a start date where we say from here on out, we really mean it. it happens you will be dragged in front of the commission and you might lose your license. the consequences are real.

if we address real concerns, who have the chance to do exactly what the supervisor says, supplement a department that is so incredibly stretched. it will get worse. we can't have a foot beats because we can't have cops responding to violent crimes. it is going to get worse with the the program stops or not. i wish we knew the number if it was 27 or 45 cups of the street, they provide a valuable service. i think it is naughty. my way of proceeding is that we have a working group of a couple of commissioners, a patrol special -- the patrol special or to cut over the next few weeks said down and look at the rules

and what we need to do to amend them. and the whole commission can weigh in. and we say this is a new day, these are the rules that will be followed. the consequences are that you will lose your chance to be patrol special. here are the things i think are important. here are the valid concerns in that report. i think there is a real concern about liability for the city. i think the commissioner is right. we should adopt a very clear rules about what the liability should be. we should demand a detailed records on a timely basis the patrol special care that insurance and further -- so that citizens are not on the line if the patrol special does something wrong. i think we should dramatically increase training. i said that to commissioner.

maybe it was the next -- acceptable in 1847. it is naughty that you will have a police badge at all and have 20 or 30 or 40 hours of training. having been through a police academy, everybody should have at least a minimum of reserve training. you shouldn't have a gun and badge. i would never support somebody doing that. anybody on the force should have a reasonable amount of time to catch up to the training. i think incredibly increased training should be required. there is much better oversights that when the rules are violated, there is swift action taken and things are not sitting on the docket for a couple of years. we should address the fiscal

issues around training. so that the city with the $380 million deficit can absorb that. finally, i think denny's to be oversight by rates charged. that way, trade secrets are protected. there is the potential for abuse. his body should review those contracts to be sure that nobody is gouging the clients. i think we can accomplish this and have a fresh start. commissioner dejesus: i appreciate the commissioner's comments. i agree with a lot of what he says. i can agree with their frustration. the deadlines that were thrown out, they're not really in place. there are regulations already in place and they have to be

followed until we resolve how we're going to continue to go forward if we are continue to go forward. and if you're going to introduce more trading hours. that is something that we should revisit. there is a compliance issue that has to be dealt with right now. whatever the minimum insurances, a certificate needs to be in the hands of the department. that city needs to be protected. going forward, you need to comply with what is on the books right now, and you can see if you can make things better. as if we could address some of the concerns in this report short of doing the entire program are realistically getting a charter amendment somewhere down the road. we should try to work with what we have. but we should have compliance in the meantime. >> we went through extensively and change the rules were a lot

of the changes and everything that i have asked for was promulgated and we gave them a couple of months or more. now we give them a couple of years. i will make it clear, i am a supporter of the patrol specials. but you put our police officers and the public at risk. that is why i am asking for compliance and asking for the police department to assess the compliance. i know it is hard for the police department to do, but if the people that pay for the beets really love them, they should pay for the additional police departments. until there is a charter amendment, there need to be rules. you are not in compliance today, almost 2.5 years later. whether it is friday night or

next week or next month, if your certificate isn't in today, you're out of compliance. and they'll have the obligation to take the appropriate action. we will move our way forward on this. there will be a move for a charter amendment. that could be problematic based on this report. >> i this want to say what you said about the commission have an oversight, but it can't be the entity. the seven of us are volunteers that spend a tremendous amount of time with the department. they have to get on top of this. it can't be us. you can come back and report to us, and if you don't do it, those are yelling and screaming more. we are an oversight board, we are not day-to-day management. it can't be the body that is

making sure that the patrol specials i also think the department should look at those rules that will promulgated, and see if they are right, and if not, make some proposals to us and say this is what is wrong or right, but it cannot go on this way. president mazzucco: dr. marshall? dr. marshall: we still have this, so if you want to go down the road one more time, and say this will be it, et you know, i

do not see it, and i do not have a lot of faith in it. you know, mr. hammer, if you think you can -- commissioner hammer: i cannot do anything alone. i was just suggesting a way forward. dr. marshall: go ahead. >> commissioners, if i can address a couple of your questions? the training has always been paid for by the control specialists. this last year is the first time i can remember that they gave us training at no cost. we still paid for one-third of the trade. we paid for that. this was free of charge from what we were told.

we have no problems with getting additional training and paying for it ourselves. dr. marshall: ministate. i am skeptical. if you did what he said, if you came back and showed me personally that i am serious, i really want to save this, -- does that make sense? commissioner hammer: i will stop smoking. dr. marshall: [laughs] president mazzucco: we have that note of lot of discussion. i was in favor of this.

every time i have done it, it has backfired. we have given the many, many extensions. again, the first step in my opinion, the opinion of the entire commission is compliance. so i want to thank everybody who came tonight. i really appreciate your comments. this is very helpful. bake you for coming forward. and the officers, i did not see many tonight, but they keep. we got 20 telephone calls. those excuses do not work anymore. you go to training. thank you very much. commissioner hammer: i am a supporter, like commissioner

mazzucco, i think it is incumbent on them to take it on themselves. as you meet tonight, i suppose -- suggest to you tomorrow. these are valid critiques. i suggest that to comply with the rules that are there now. i will help you to approach the commission yourself to say, "we want to be better. we want to go to a different level. otherwise, the forces against you will gain strength, and there may be a charter amendment against you in the future. thank you.

president mazzucco: next item? where are we now? i do not even know where we secretary: ladies and gentlemen, the president is calling the meeting back to session. we still have a quorum. president mazzucco: i would now like to move into line item 8, about the disciplinary matters.

we want to handle the one matter. if you can call the next item? secretary: item number six, items pertaining to item number 8 below, including public comment on whether or not to hold item in closed session. president mazzucco: ladies and gentlemen, we are asking for a closed session, according to a taste. any comments? -- according to a case. >> my name is leo, for the record. i want to make two statements, and i want to get out of your also right afterwards.

president mazzucco: this is about a closed session. >> i disagree with you manipulating public comment. president mazzucco: you are misrepresenting it. we are going to have public comment. after b&o the disciplinary matters. -- after we have the disciplinary matters. >> i just want to echo his sentiments. item number two says the general public comment, in this is worthwhile. we should be following the agenda. president mazzucco: we do take some items sometimes of order to facilitate other folks. >> i represent a legal advocacy program.

with what the previous settlement said earlier, this is not ok for people to sit here patiently, listen to the presentations, be respectful and listen, and i understand that you guys have your disciplinary matters, but there needs to be some more leniency in terms of public prioritization, because it is like you guys are rambling, rambling, rambling. president mazzucco: thank you very much. i appreciate it, i do. anyone else? >> i think you should stick to this. i have to leave now, but i will hopefully be back next week. president mazzucco: anymore public comment on going to closed