committee process and hearing and get it done in time for small business week, so what is in the legislation is the spaces that the department, the commission is asking to have the permit fee waived for each of the participating merchants associations, and you have a list of merchants' associations, and how many do we have, chris, total? i thought maybe you would know that number of hand. clerk: 16. there will be a sale on saturday may 7, due to scheduling, with other conflicts with school schedules.

commissioner yee riley: do we have to do this every year? >> yes, we have to do this every year. part of what we bring is our ability to help do the promotion around the shop your neighborhood date for small business week, and part of that is doing the fee waiver for the sidewalk sale, so that encourages the merchant organizations. commissioner yee riley: we have to do the same process every year? we cannot just say from now on? >> dpw needs to have the board of supervisors approved way the permit fee, and then we send them the information, and they korea a permit for each merchant area, and that permit also goes

to each police station, just for verification, and the police may not be aware of what is happening, so this way, there is verification that this area has the permit and can conduct, the merchant can conduct business on the sidewalk. president -- >> this way, we can promptly submit to this. president o'brien: commissioner adams? commissioner adams: this is very important. president o'brien: this is an action item, if i am not

mistaken? >> this is an action item. president o'brien: do we get a proposal and the second? commissioner adams: a motion to approve. president o'brien: approved. next item, please. i do not see anybody here, so there is no public comment. clerk: thank you, commissioners. you are now on item 11, discussion and possible action to give staff direction regarding limited light entertainment permits, and we have a presentation from director dick-endrizzi. >> commissioners, what is before you -- the legislation is not before you, but there are some continued issues that have come

up around the limits of live performance, so the legislation has not been introduced. i want to get some direction from the commission and because of the advocacy, we were able to assure that the application permit it was at a very reasonable rate, so we do have some concerns from two different neighborhoods about the limits of live performance permits. if you could turn to -- at the retreat, and i am happy to review this as needed, but at the retreat, we went over -- do

i need to repeat that at all? ok, so i would like to have you turn and take a look at the map, and this shows the sections that currently of the legislation is written, it is permitted. all of the green areas. and if we went with the current code, and the green represents where entertainment is permitted, and then yellow is conditional use, and there are concerns from two different areas, the legislative there are

some concerns with the western soma area and in the north beach area to make the one of the legislation just go with what is permitted, and i just wanted to make sure that my implication is -- it is our neighborhood commercial corridor, where the thought in the attention, and this was initially discussed, would have to be conditional use, and that would add another $2,000 on to that permit, approximately, to do a conditional use, so i am is bringing this to your attention, and the direction that we want

to go with is what we intend, and the two areas, if they went to either make themselves conditional use or pull themselves out of the legislation, but for me, that is the direction to go into as opposed to making the rest of our neighborhood commercial corridors. again, being penalized and making it more costly for them to engage in this particular permit. president o'brien: commissioner collide? commissioner clyde: thank you. you articulate it that well. there is a piano at a pizza parlor for four hours when their

house was being renovated. residents of the san francisco symphony and the ballet orchestra, said they had a great time. they wanted to continue that, but permanent issues allowing just a simple piano, it made it impossible for the pizza parlor to continue even after it was taken back into the house. if that really is the kind of thing we are looking at, in federal possible, i think we should reiterate or state this.

there are dozens of musicians, some of which produce their own music. they're trying to pick up digs in between. professional digs, and they also use this money. they need this money, and our musicians and entertainers, they are small business owners themselves. banks. president -- thanks. president o'brie: commissioner dooley? the commissioner dooley: some are skeptical of this, but i think it would be good to remove all of the comments in here that say performance allow until 10:00 p.m.. that should be removed, and then this after one year, they may

operate up to midnight. it seems like it kind of money is the waters, which is that this will be until 10:00, mostly in restaurants, cafes. i know myself it would be a much stronger position to come from to say, no, not after one year can they be open until midnight. two years, they could stay open until 1. i think it is better to make it more narrow, so there would be less objection to it. by the possibility of extending later i think is a problem. i think it should go for this type of permits, and they want to go further after they have done this, then i think that their neighborhood track record

will be good, and they should go ahead and apply for a regular license. president o'brien: ok, commissioner riley? commissioner yee riley: after one year, they cannot renew. is that intentional? >> i think when you talk to folks, they do not like the open door. the thing is, they do not want to get into a shouting match. 10:00 p.m., that is it, and if it is something else, it falls under a different category. i just been there would be way less objections, and i do not personally see why it needs to be extended for two hours. most restaurants are not going to be serving after 10, anyway, and even with the café,

performing until 10:00, this makes it an easier sell. no, we do not want them open until midnight. 10:00 is ok but not until midnight. and entertainment area like north beach starts getting into what you call the witching hour, which is when the problems start sprouting around that time. 11:00 on is when things start getting rougher, especially on weekends with the crowds. this would be my suggestions. president o'brien: commissioner clyde? commissioner clyde: a lot of the

second floor, what used to be housing now, it is often in office. i am sensitive in our mixed use districts noise and people, so i do not want to craft legislation that is going to go round the entertainment permit, should a person or a business want to pursue that. this is really to bring under the permitting umbrella the small venues that want to have an accessory use before 10:00. now, how to handle -- now, it is 11:00, or is the weekend. i do not know, but i do know, i believe there is a spot for this legislation as was intended.

this is not to compete. i would be very interesting to hear what your take would be. >> i think this is needed. each district is different with respect to north beach. there are issues over there right now. we need to do something. this is a tourist town, and

people come here from all over the world. although, i appreciate until midnight. i think this is very good legislation. commissioner yee riley: so should we get rid of this? open until midnight? >> we can change this in the future. i just feel uncomfortable introducing something right now with an open and to it. but in wants to get this program up and going, there is always an opportunity to revisit it.

-- i just want to the this program up and going. i think really more from the direction is that our commission wants to see the green areas stayed green, and there are neighborhoods you want to pull themselves out, and they are welcome to do so. if the caveat to achieve that is we keep it at 10:00 p.m., we keep it at 10:00 p.m. otherwise, that is the first option, otherwise, another option is certain neighborhoods can save limited live

performance can only be in their area until 10:00, where others may be until 11:00. does that make sense? i sort of have put two things out there, in terms of the directions that you can give me in terms of talking to the legislative sponsor. commissioner yee riley: turning to read into yellow? >> this is how it currently is.

and what about keeping it in areas where this is permitted? taking a look at the map, i wanted to see what that would look like for our neighborhood commercial corridors. as i said, there are some discussions happening due to concerns, and the legislative said these were the most expeditious way to go and address these concerns, which is to leave it with being permitted with areas where it is currently permitted with conditional use in other areas. in the areas that are yellow. again, for north beach, that maintains what they currently are right now with conditional use. but when you're talking about

the ocean avenue, our mission, you know, the lower 24, outer sunset, where there are cafes that are really looking forward to having this, there was one café that incurred an ada lawsuit. and i think about the commercial corridors where they're struggling. so i wanted to look and see. if we change the legislation from what we originally intended to look at just what is currently permitted. did i answer your question, commissioner riley? commissioner yee riley: sort of.

that is going to be kind of expensive. president o'brien: commissioner clyde? commissioner clyde: where you need a c.u., since that is a different thing than limits in live performance, that is why we want to go with the option to allow -- north beach has an embarrassment of issues. there is so much going on. it is an issue, allowing flexibility within that very dense community. it is an issue. but the fact is, there is a lot of it now, and much of it happens later and into the evening. we are trying to get these permits to bridge the gap before

8:00 or the 5:00 to 10:00. it would be helpful if we could get those permits in north beach, but it would be extremely valuable to get this to the outlying areas where, again, there are very low impact so i would definitely support the wider options. we are looking at the whole thing, not just a couple of neighborhoods. and this is technical. this has to do with limitations. one is compliance with new ways violations under article 29. basically, if a neighbor complains, you have to turn it down, you have to turn it down. doors and windows closed. i think this is a little too vague, and i think if we're going through the permit process that it should be consistent

with police coat -- code. >> of of background. they're going to be required to go out and test. this could be an issue. and that could increase the application fee. if it turns out that their issues down the road with this, then we may have to improvise it. >> i have a permit for an outdoor event, in one of the conditions -- would that be an

option against no audible noise outside? >> well, right now, those kinds of conditions would be not necessarily in the legislation, but it is something the administratively, it is better administratively for the director to apply those positions that would fit under this guideline. commissioner clyde: ok, i will take the recommendation of the department. president o'brien: commissioner dooley? commissioner dooley: i prefer the broader citywide.

i know in north beach, i personally think it is a little over the top that everything requires a c.u. if you have a small restaurant, in you when one person playing a guitar, you have to have a c.u. with that caveat going into it with this 10:00 p.m. limit, because it makes it harder to protest it. even with the noise, the things that janet talked about, it is still considered acceptable to have moderate noise up to that our, -- hour, so, once again, i would prefer that it be broader. president o'brien: ok, anybody

else? are we talking about -- does the project sponsor -- where neighborhood organizations would not be able to opt out of this? if we made it citywide without the conditional use provision at all? >> the commission has had discussions around this. this is what they would like.

let me rephrase this. well clearly hear from the commission of this point in time is that you want to make it citywide, and that is the first priority, making it easy, make it citywide. if there are greater concerns, then our commission, instead of moving -- we could do neighborhood by neighborhood, which could happen in the western soma area, or like the north beach area, you could never have a permit for a limited life performance after 10:00. that is kind of what i am hearing at this stage.

commissioner adams: for the different neighborhoods. commissioner: who would be the arbiter for that? >> -- it commissioner adams: i have talked to people who want to this. people are leaving the inner sunset to go to other parts of the city, and it would be really nice for them to stay, so -- president o'brien: it was my understanding -- i was surprised when i saw that.

when we were having this discussion, the example given to me was a little restaurant, a small venue, would like to have someone playing at a piano bar for the ambiance. poetry reading was an example. all of the examples in my head were applicable to 10:00 p.m., and really did not think there was anything that was going to go beyond that. i was surprised to read that. maybe thatbut that to me by sur. the way to go is city-wide until 10:00. you know, we can monitor the situation and bring a proposal backing year.

it is for not exceeding noise requirements. >> if the legislative sponsor is ok with somehow, neighborhoods are -- and just knowing -- i know what i need to communicate on behalf of the commission. if it turns out valley will get what the commission would like to make sure is in the legislation while the entertainment commission may want to continue to have -- i am sure what the commission's intent of this legislation is maintained. we can work with a legislative