president goh: ok. >> [unintelligible] president goh: ok. thank you. i'm going to -- commissioner garcia: miss li? commissioner fung: i asked the appellant whether they had done any form of approaching community boards where neighbors can discuss things and see if they can find some common basis to have a neighborly

relationship. would that be of interest to you? to see if there is an ability to reduce complaints and lived to get there? -- and live together? perhaps your daughter can translate that. >> no. nobody called me. commissioner fung: would you consider that? volunteers service that in the city. >> it's a good idea, but let them come to me and let me do the stairway.

commissioner fung: the stairway is the issue before us. the community boards thing is voluntary by the parties themselves. >> i think that for today's case, we would like to let us do the stairway thing and in the future, she would like to go to the -- commissioner fung: community boards. ok. thank you. president goh: i was going to give you another minute if you have any for one -- a need for one. if you'd like.

>> i would like to ask michael if a new permit is granted for the stairway to be rebuilt that the area be removed so there is not an eagerness to my roof and is -- egress to my roof. the entire stairway should be certified by a structural engineer. president goh: anything more? commissioners, any questions? commissioner hwanpeterson: at wt

point will they be warranted? >> i think it will be required by drawings. the picture showed it at the bottom. >> how would they know it is more than 50% needed to be replaced? we heard lumber being brought into the backyard. it certainly happens in this city. a lot of times, the have done more than 50%. there are engineering drawings. >> what about the stoop issues? they go to planning.

>> i think plan and would do an entire landing structure. it is required out there. and it will be replaced in kind, you are not changing the configuration. there are planning requirements that is the process. >> it will be very hard to pick up. i don't have that as possible. there is tram on the window. i think it is hard to prove. but they changed the size by 3 inches.

president goh: the matter is submitted if you have no other questions. comments? commissioner garcia: i invoke rodney king, why can't we all get along? it seems like we don't really know what is going on. i feel as if i don't really know what is going on. i have great sympathy for the neighbors of all of these issues took place and they were filing these complaints because things were happening that were not dakota. -- up to code. i would feel sympathy for the homeowner and someone was looking over every single thing they ever did.

it seems a shame, i love the idea of community boards. as for this permit, they can go back and ascertain whether or not it has exceeded the 50%. there is no nov issue attached, so that's not an issue. i feel like it would be reasonable because sa picture depicts plants on a roof from another house. the very fact that they have access and someone has done that means they have not respected somebody else's property rights. it is perfectly reasonable for this board and to require that a screen be erected on that's to -- that stoop on that wall, and i don't see how it will do any harm to the enjoyment of that stoop to the neighbors. all you can ask is to realize

who lives next door. they are sensitive to noise and other things that take place on that property. maybe you have been of great neighbor already, but be a little more sensitive to their issues. commissioner peterson: since you suggested the screen, what are you -- commissioner garcia: they can take the form of a trellis. anything that would prevent someone from standing on that's due to be able to reach over and place things on the roof of the appellant cozy house that is right next door. -- the appellant's house that is right next door. if you put a large plant there,

it is not that big of a steoop o begin with and you are limiting the amount of space available. commissioner hwang: i would say that a lot of the comments by vice-president garcia would be the same as mine. i think what is very difficult is how we live. i live in vernal heights. i try very hard to avert my eyes when i see my neighbors eating their breakfast and i try not to look at them. not because all we are unfriendly, but just affording privacy and consideration that we would like for ourselves. that is something that i think everyone should think about. i agree that it has also been said.

neighbors have gotten into it over un-permitted work. it is hard to dial back what might be a hostile relationship and work together as neighbors. i can understand the appellant's perspective once the on permitted work -- un-permitted work, they're not in position to see it or see as a fair response has been incredibly frustrating. i understand that is what brought you here today. i can also see the neighbor's trying to fix a set of stairs that is rotted and dangerous . they hnhee -- need to fix those stairs. it is difficult. when you see the wood and the

work starting, instead of saying, what is going on, pickup the phone and call dbi. it brings dbi into it. everybody should go the mediation and figure out how to get along. it might be helpful in this situation. president goh: do we have a motion? commissioner garcia: i don't know if i am failing on the issue for some sort of device to prevent people from reaching over. president goh: i think it is a good idea, but i could not tell from the pictures where it would go and how it would function. commissioner fung: cumene the vertical screen so that one can't go over? commissioner garcia: that would be fine. would you, as an architect, suggests something?

commissioner fung: it is relatively easy for us to suggest these things, but i am not sure is the root cause. if they had any desire at all to initiate some form of dialogue, they have to bring that force themselves. commissioner garcia: it seemed of all the problems that exist between those neighbors, the one that could be easily dealt with -- i certainly did not think that would solve all the problems and these people would skip into the sunset together, hand in hand. but there seems to be no support for the screen. perhaps the neighbors have not heard the board. they might decide as a good neighbor gesture to do it on their own. but i would move to uphold the permit.

>> on that motion from the vice president to deny this appeal and uphold the permit on the basis it is code compliant. commissioner fung: aye. president goh: aye. commissioner peterson: aye. commissioner hwang: aye. >> the lotus 5-0. department is upheld. >> item 7 was withdrawn. there is no other business. president goh: ok. we are returned. -- adjourned.

>> cents and cisco's buses and trains serve many writers -- san francisco buses and trains serve many riders. the need to be sure they can get off at their intended stop. the digital voice announcement system, which announces upcoming stops, can help these low vision riders know where they are, but only if set properly. >> it is a wonderful piece of technology, but in practice, it is a little bit more tricky. oftentimes, i find that the automatic announcement system is turned off or turned down so low that i'm unable to hear it, or it is turned up so high that the sound is distorted. >> most of the time, it does not

ever seemed to be on. or is it is, it is a really quiet. occasionally, it is so loud that it is distorted. >> driver, may i have california st., please? >> no problem. >> whenever the announcement system does not work properly and a driver does not call out the stops, and i'm totally lost as to where i am. the announcement system calls out the stops, but to help the customer, i caught the destination, transfer points, and requested stops. and it is the law. >> i use the p a system to make sure everyone on the bus here is my announcements. >> i have had both experiences with the loudness and the to stop for the announcements. you are never going to have it exactly balanced for every trip because your level of noise changes. the announcement system ranges from 1 to 10. 10 would be too loud, a little

distorted. eight is a good number. not too loud, but loud enough for everyone to hear and understand what is going on. >> i think bus drivers might not be aware of the fact that if you let a visually impaired person off at the wrong stop, number one, they may be absolutely unfamiliar with the area they are in. >> the driver overshot the stock that i wanted. i decided to get off and find my way back, but it was very disorienting, not exactly understanding how far i was. number 2, it might be a potentially dangerous situation if they do not know the area and are attempting to make crossings that they are unfamiliar with. >> they let me off somewhere else. i had no idea where i was. i missed the stop, and the bus was gone. then, i look around. i tried to find someone to help me, and i cannot find anybody.

i would have no way of knowing where i am at. >> [inaudible] i asked why he did not stop when i asked. we did not panic. we do not know where we are. we do not know what is going on. i get over there, and right away, i almost got killed. >> #3, it's the person in question is trying to get somewhere, it is going to make them late for whatever they are doing. >> i had to find my way to a corner and ask someone where i was going to and how to get there. i eventually made it to my appointment, which was with social security, but i was very late, and they almost did not see me. >> i was very late former doctor's appointment, and there was concern about whether or not i could be fit in.

>> when i get off i stock that is unfamiliar to me, because i have no sight, i cannot just automatically orient myself off to a new environment. it takes a lot of training, a lot of work. there are a lot of skill sets involved when i am first introduced to a new area. to get off at an unfamiliar bus stop for the first time and to do it unintentionally -- it can be a really disorienting experience. >> i think there is a sense that it is ok, that person is going to find their way, and did they do not know where they are, you are potentially putting them in a seriously dangerous situation. >> i always appreciate when the drivers are proactive in asking questions like, "where do you want to get off?" i appreciate when they help find a seat for me. i also appreciate when

everything is working properly as far as the voice announcement system. they make sure that it is turned on, that it is loud enough for everyone to hear, not turned down so low that it helps no one. >> excuse me, driver, what stocks are we at? can you remind me when we get to venice and broadway? thanks. >> what we're talking about here is full participation and inclusion. i want to be able to lead a full life. the only way that i'm able to get from place to place this by using a fully accessible public transit system like meany -- muni. >> the americans with disabilities act of 1990 is a wide-ranging federal civil- rights law that prohibits discrimination against persons with disabilities.

title two of the ada addresses access to public services, including public transportation for persons with disabilities. it requires transit operators to call out stops at transfer points, major intersections, and major destinations, and to announce particular stocks requested by customers with disabilities. stop announcements are especially important for passengers who are blind or have low vision. these individuals cannot travel independently if they are not assured of getting off at their intended destination point.

>> being a pedestrian in san francisco is not easy for anybody. >> [inaudible] people push tables and chairs outside the sidewalk. >> i have to be careful not to walk the sidewalk. it is very hard. >> sometimes people get half way across the intersection. >> you have to be alert because

there is always something coming up that you need to know about. >> i learned to listen to the traffic patterns. sometimes i notice the other pedestrians, they are crossing, on occasion, i have decided i'm going to cross, too. i get to the middle of the intersection, and i find out that the light has changed. >> we need to be able to work and go from one place to the other and have public transportation. the world needs to be open. >> people on disability has the task of addressing all the disability. when we are talk about the sidewalks, ramps, we have very specific issues.

for people blind and low vision, we have the issue of knowing where they are and when the cross. it can be hit or miss. >> at hulk and grove, that sound the the automatic -- it helps people cross the street safely. >> now we have a successful pedestrian signal. >> i push the button, i get an audible message letting me know that i need to wait. when it is safe to cross, not only am i going to get an audible indicator, this button is going to vibrate. so it tells me it is safe. there is the driller sound and

this trigger is vibrating. i am not relying on anything but the actual light change, the light cycle built into it. >> it brings san francisco from one of the major cities in the u.s. to what is going to be the lead city in the country. >> city working on all sorts of things. we are trying to be new and innovative and go beyond the

ada says and make life more successful for people. >> disability rights movement, the city has the overall legal obligation to manage and maintain the accessibility and right of way. with regards to the curb ramps, bounded by a groove border, 12-inch wide border. for people with low vision to get the same information. the shape of the domes, flush transition between the bolt bottom of the ramp and gutter. >> we have a beveled transition on the change in level, tape on

the surfaces, temporary asphalt to fill in level changes, flush transition to temporary wood platform and ramp down into the street under the scaffoldinging. detectable ramps. they are all detectable. nothing down below or protruding that people are going to get snagged up on. smooth clean that nobody is going get caught up on. >> our no. 1 issue is what we see here, the uplifting and shreufting to concrete due too street tree roots. here is another problem we have

with street trees. if i have i was a person blind, this would be an uncomfortable way to find out. >> we don't want to create hazards. >> sometimes vendors put sidewalk cafes where people push the chairs too far out. >> sometimes it can be impassable. so much foot traffic that there is no room for a wheelchair or walker to go by. >> san francisco is a lively street life, it can be an issue with people with visual

disabilities as well. they have these diverting barriers on other side of this tables and chairs area. if people can find thraeur way around it without getting tangled up, it is still fully accessible. >> we don't want anything special. we want people to basically adhere to the regulations and laws as they are on the books now. people can also, just be cognizant if they have stuff on the street, they thaoed to have 48 inches so we can pass, think outside your own spectrum of yourself that there are other people you need to share the sidewalk with. we will all get along better. >> although san francisco is a

hilly place for a whraoel chair user, we seem to be better at most. that doesn't mean we can't continue to improve upon ourselves. >> the public has a clear are -- of travel. we can't be every to make sure that is the place. we have to rely on the place. call 311. give them your name. that goes into a data base. >> it is difficult, still, um to make the case that the disabled community isn't being represented. in some ways we are not. we have a long way to go. >> the city of san francisco is using the most innovative technology