definition of life and safety is well established. as i understand, it would need to be a directive from the director. >> it means that some of his life is in danger or peril. loss of heat would be like the safety. -- life safety. >> members of the commission, good morning. chief housing inspector. does the commission wants an overview on the history of emergency orders and repairs? kerr is a very broad definition. we are really dealing with a definition in the building code that deals with something

called serious and imminent. you can have something that may be potentially hazardous, but you mean the mnc before the director can go ahead and do provocative things. as far as ordering a building to be demolished, repaired. if the director issues an emergency order, there are certain things that have to happen. it is a time-consuming thing to do. because of the exigent circumstances, you need to give the property owner and maximum of 48 hours to try to make repairs themselves. you must report record net document immediately. -- record that document immediately. in a situation where you want to make repairs and not under issue of emergency, that is a

different process. with respect to the housing division, when we get a complaint that alleges a life hazard, hazardous condition, and/or heat, we will respond to that within a 24-hour period. but that can mean a lot of things. if it is an anonymous complaint, we have to try to contact the owner. we are trying to look at those types of things that are traditionally not in the common area. the boiler room, a time clock, all things that we need access to. we need to go through the provision the right of access to go through those things. if it is a complaint about an individual in their unit, they may not want an inspection for a few days. while we initiate that communication, we do not always

get to perform the inspection within one or two business days, depending on the situation. in the case of the building in question here, i have had housing inspectors there are a daily basis, several times a day, tried to press the contractor or order to get things done. we are up-to-date on the notices of violation that we have issued. commissioner walker: i understand if it looks like it will collapse. i think we are forced into a situation to do something. what do we do, if it is 30 degrees out, and there are elderly people in a building, and the heat is off? >> i can tell you what we have done.

depending on the circumstances, we may or may not issue an emergency order. we have in the past. the repair and demolition fund appeared 17 years ago as a $150,000 supplement to the to deal with the imminent hazard. that was its original intent. from that, what we have done in the past, because of issues with contractors, we have used many times dpw's bureau of building repairs to do those repairs, particularly in instances where the heat was not the central control, but it was in a particular unit where we could get access. we had permission from the complainant. in some cases, we were able to restore those heating devices. but when it comes to a central system, when you need access

over time, and then you may be dealing with a much more complex situation. commissioner walker: ok, i get it. what do you do then? >> if i may, commissioner, generally, what the department has done is deal with the exigent circumstances to make the building more stable, to deal with the issue but not necessarily restore the whole system. when you get into a boiler system, you may have other issues -- commissioner walker: space heaters, something like that? >> in instances where there was a single source, we may have had an elderly individual or confirmed individual, we have access, and there was sufficient money to stabilize the situation. but when you are dealing with several large building systems,

it becomes a much more complicated situation. even when the department had $20 million in its operating fund, they were apprehensive to do that. once you start making the repairs, you inherit the liability and access that goes along with that. it is one thing to barricade a building. it cost about 18 dozen dollars just to have the bureau of rebuilding repair come in, the police was there, the city attorney involved. in a situation, we may attempt to make it apparent in a part of a building that is not accessible. we would have to do something tantamount to a forcible entry warrant. so even when you are issuing an emergency order, you have to be in constant contact with the

property owner to document that you have the ability to make those repairs. commissioner murphy: how much do we have in the fund? >> i believe the deputy director just said it was about $300,000. commissioner murphy: i have no problem on dropping the hammer down on property owners not taking care of their business. but as a department, we cannot get into the repair business. we cannot run out there every time a boiler goes out. first of all, we do not have the money. second, if there are contractors assigned to doing this kind of work, they will end of being sued because of favoritism, giving jobs to contractors. i do not think we should get involved in it. as far as commissioner walker asking, what do you do if a

boiler goes out in the middle of the winter and old or sick people do not have heat? perhaps that is something for the rent board. moving into hotels or something. we just need to be careful how we tread on this. we cannot put this on the backs of our stakeholders, who are already supporting tremendous fees for permits and other stuff. if the city is going to do something, it should be done on a citywide basis, picked up by the assessor or somebody. not just this department. commissioner lee: i think pamela mentioned that replenishing the fund is a long and difficult process. what is that process? >> excellent question.

it could take over a year to replenish. you bill the property owner for the time, building repair, for all of the costs, administrative costs. then if they do not pay, you have to lien the property. after you send the notification, and they still do not tender the hearing, we go to that hearing that we have once a year, our lien cycle. then when the tax bill gets paid, next april, there is an amount that they pay and you get part of it in the first installment, part in the second. they have to pay the tax bill because the tax collector cannot take a portion of that payment and give it to a department.

so they need to pay their installment in its entirety before you get the transaction back to you. so that could be several months. that is just recouping what you have spent. if you want to make it a policy of stepping into the issues of the property owner, then you will need a much larger budget funded on the front end to address that. the types of jurisdiction that have done this successfully. obviously, the economy is probably cramping those efforts. cities that have additional and adjudication mechanisms, though, that have done this successfully. new york has a housing court. we have had property owners try to go and to get a writ to stop us, even in the event of an

imminent hazard. they have a mechanism where they can go to a specialized for to do with that. it was successful in that situation. these are just a few things you would have to consider to go in that policy direction. commissioner lee: i have a follow-up question on the replenishing process. do do we bill the property owner for cost, or is there a multiplier or penalty process? >> because this is an assessment, not a fee, we are billing them for our cost. however, chapter one warned the property owner, once the building official undertakes the

repairs, a property owner is told that it will cost them much more. our costs, to hire a contractor, to contract with the bureau of building repair, is usually three or four times more expensive than them hiring their own contractor. so once we start the repairs, it is their job to make sure the department is reimbursed. if you are dealing with punitive damages, then you will need to litigate. that is part of the code enforcement process. this is the emergency order to make the repairs. the code enforcement process for them not adhering to the code is still out there. you may be issuing a notice of violation as well as an emergency order, depending on the conditions. commissioner walker: since dpw is the one that normally goes out, we do not engage

contractors, market dpw fees. commissioner murphy: is the category of emergencies objective? is it by virtue of the department to render what is emergency? >> the code has specific language about imminent hazard. the code also talks about the fact that the building official has to act reasonably. it has to be something where not just the heat is going out, but an imminent hazard. if the ambient temperature outside is 60 degrees, that will not be as much of a hazard, compared to one of those days that we had, where the temperature is in the 30's. if we are dealing with a central system, we have to then do a tremendous amount of coordination, get the bureau of building repair out there, to assess what they can do on an

interim basis to get the system back up. we are not usually dealing with complete replacement or repair. we do not have the fund to deal with those issues. it would be a total shipped from educating, implementing, documenting the requirements of, and enforcing the electrical, mechanical, blogging, administrative coats, to building management. you are taking on that responsibility, and you have to do that reasonably. commissioner walker: my thought on this is there is an extreme that warrants us doing something. making sure we have that ability -- and i think we do, it is just expensive at this juncture. i do not think anyone is expanding to becoming the building owner or anything.

in the case of something like lack of heat, it can be life- threatening. i think it is something to look at, especially if it is happening everywhere. i do not know if we still have that steam system that buildings hook into. we have to be prepared for our responsibility. commissioner murphy: i think if you are living with 50 units and the heat is off, eight days running, 50 tenants have a lot of power regarding putting the pressure on the landlord, so -- >> we will have public comment following this item. you can speak at that time. commissioner hechanova:

additional comments? commissioner lee. commissioner lee: i think the department should book through this overall process to see what we can do better. from what i am hearing, i do not think the process is perfect just yet. obviously, there are still some complaints. it is not working for some people. but from what i have heard today so far, if i were the property owner, there does not seem to be a whole lot of incentive for me to get the repairs fixed. that is the bottom line. i am not saying the department should go in there and rescue the property owners and tenants, but we should put some emphasis on compelling the property owner to do the work quickly. what is that? from what i hear, if we do the work, we are billing the

property owner at cost, and they can drag out the lien process. it is almost as if the owner has no negative effects. they can just let it go through the process. two years later, i will just pay it. it does not sound like we are pushing the property owner's enough. could the department just reveal the process? maybe it includes other proposals that we need to take up with other legislative bodies. maybe we can do something more. >> we would be happy to look into it. right now, the last course of action is referring it to the city attorney, which is time consuming but also expensive for the property owners. the vast majority of property owners, when we reach that stage, will take care of the repairs. just takes time to get to the city attorney.

litigation committee meets every other month. commissioner walker: the fact that it works, bricks, sort of works, breaks, it gives them the illusion that they have had more time. >> it is an ancient system, it keeps breaking down, and i imagine the parts are hard to come by. but we have identified the problem. we have notices of violation in there that will force the owners to replace the boiler with a modern one. that should take care of the problem. commissioner murphy: how many of these do we did a year? >> heat problems? >> citywide?

commissioner murphy: similar building, a similar problem. how many of these do we get a year? >> it depends on the building. this particular building, what housing inspector has seen -- commissioner murphy: i just want a simple answer. commissioner walker: not per building. >> we see peaks in the winter. we do not get many complaints this time of year. but we tried to be proactive and get in these buildings before the winter and do what we call a heat sweep to make sure that they have all of the equipment, top of the property owners, to try to prevent these types of violations. commissioner lee: i am sorry,

this also reminds me. at the last meeting, i asked for some numbers to see how big of a problem this is. could we get some overall life safety complete numbers? -- complaint numbers? >> total number of complaints? >> when you are talking about heating, boiler heating, about 6000, 7000 in the system. out of those, we might get a total of 50 a year calling saying we have no heat, no hot water. we go out there, and more times than not, we find out the day that we are going out, there is someone doing the repair on that system. the day that the complaint is

coming in is the same day that the owner is getting in touch with the contractor. by the time we are getting out there to have them draw it up, it does not happen. when you are talking about space heating, smaller units, more individual. yes, those could go out. getting a complaint about that is usually only when nobody does anything. we do not see that happening that much. commissioner murphy: so the percentage is pretty small? >> yes. they are not leaving them without heat or hot water. normally. there are a few cases, but not normally. >> and you also have to remember, if they are trying to work on the boiler and there is no heat, and they are providing space heaters to the tenants, you need access to their

apartments. in some cases, tenants will not allow the landlord access, even to put in a space heater. that is another thing that we run into all the time. sometimes, the owner is prevented from trying to mitigate the problem, like installing a space heater while the boiler is out. in some cases, it is an access issue. we run into that quite a bit. commissioner hechanova: can we summarize, ed? >> commissioner lee, we would be glad to get those code enforcement numbers for you. we are glad they working with the property owner at 570 o'farrell. we take these things seriously,

and we will continue to enforce it. >> it would be best if we could hurry along and get this thing dealt with before the cold weather, if they are going to replace it. >> absolutely. commissioner hechanova: thank you. >> first, to address mr. sweeney, i am not the only one that has called to complain. there have been other complaints. the other thing, in the particular case of no heat for eight days, it was not until the seventh day that the landlord attempted to call a repair man. i called after 24 hours with no heat to dbi. how many days, when the welfare of residents are at stake?

in the housing code, under the paragraph purpose, it says the purpose of the code is to provide for the maintenance of the minimum requirements for the protection of life, limb, health, property, safety, and welfare of the general public, owner, and occupants of the residential building. seven days without heat and no attempt to repair it. i understand the problem in trying to reimburse the city for the money expended, but i do not think a repairmen coming out and spending two hours is going to be an enormous charge. mr. murphy, last time indicated, it was a small number of landlords that were a problem. i agree with that. i have lived in rental units most of my life. this particular landlord, i have

written letters to her and she does not respond. in terms of a director's hearing, nobody came to the directors hearing. commissioner hechanova: were the inspectors able to get into your unit to take a look? >> yes, i was there to open the door for them. this is seven days before an attempt was made -- commissioner hechanova: thank you. >> where are the priorities of dbi, if not for the city? the time that i went without heat, the low temperature was 37 degrees. the high temperature in the eight days was 54 degrees. i have lived in cold climates. i do not get that cold, but 45 degrees is cold, when you have

that no heat for seven days. and nothing was done. i called dbi, and they come back and issue paper work. then it goes into the ether. thank you. commissioner hechanova: commissioner? commissioner walker: this has been helpful in dealing with the issue. i do think seven days without heat, without us doing anything or forcing the issue is too much. i think i hear you. i hope we all hear you. because of the heater comes off and on, it is difficult to pin down. i think we're headed in the right direction, but i do think having an 8-day delay on getting a resolution for heat is

wrong. by about five days. commissioner murphy: final comment? >> ken cochran. i did not intend to speak about this, but i heard about it when i came in. i had some experience in this area. i live in a building in the city where i ultimately became the property manager because we had a boiler situation like that. no heat or hot water over christmas. four days. i want to point out the difficulty in repairing or replacing a system like that, where there is a asbestos present in the building. even in the best circumstances, it is hard to find contractors who can work in those asbestos containment conditions. if you have to remove the asbestos, that is a huge project.

it is going to take a lot longer and is going to be a lot more expensive because of the magnitude of cost. it goes up about three, four times because of the presence of asbestos. even in the best circumstances -- and that kind of asbestos that you find around boilers is one of the dangerous types. i just wanted to make that comment. any time you are dealing with asbestos, it is going to make the process more difficult. thank you. >> is there any further public comment? commissioner murphy: i just want to ask one question. had the owner of the party applied to have the asbestos replaced, the boiler replaced? has he or she taken that first step? i would like to know that.

>> not as of yet. one that we are definitely doing is calling for an action plan of when they plan to do it, not awarding the contract to somebody if they cannot do that. it has to be done by a contractor. the contractor will have to be awarded that job. what that has been awarded, they will be subject to come get the permit and do the repairs and replacement. commissioner walker: you requested that for two weeks? >> i should have a response from the owner of exactly where they are at, what did have been received, the next couple of what they plan to do. as of right now, my inspector went down there and said there were no issues. i can see the urgency to get this started. if it is a