up?" : commissioner how do you think we would do if we make this different? >> it is confidential, and it should remain that way. i think it is great for shooters i do not just debriefed the shooter is. -- shooters. having to stand next to a dead body for ours is dramatic. to let us know what the officers are exposed to, and then i decide whether or not they should be debriefed. they do not have to. most of the time, they do. once they participate in the debriefing process, that gives them hooked into the resources, and they develop a relationship with all of those programs, and then it becomes less of a stigma, and people realize it's so much that it has become part of our system, so much for that

if the team does not respond to their ads and, they say, "how come no one came to my incident? " -- ?" we do not just say, "here is my number." we do a lot of follow-up. commissioner: do you not think it would be mandatory? it is like telling the drug addict they need to go to a drug rehab program that is voluntary. it is hard to get them to do that. to get an officer in to this program, would it not be better to have this be mandatory and remove the stigma? again, would that be a better practice? would it be better for the officer to follow up through the program if it was mandatory? >> it is not a program.

it is many programs. we do have a program that includes alcohol and other issues and greece support. it is not a long-term program that they sign up for. commissioner: i understand that. just falling for the program to make sure they have what it takes it. >> forcing someone to go to therapy, that is sort of a bigger question than the time that we have. president mazzucco: i understand it. >> everyone involved has to do it, so there is no stigma. most mandate they go to a clinician whenever they are involved in a shooting. what the american psychological association chief of police says is they think they are in trouble because there might be

something wrong with them. we want to have all of the doors open and resources available. that does not mean that we just say, "good luck." this is more than in any part of the country. they make the check and no how to appropriately for royals. we are meshed in with them, and if somebody is falling apart, we know about it. yes, people slip through the cracks, only because they choose to not ask for help. i do understand intervening when people are in crisis, but it takes away the ability to access it freely when you mandate too much. president mazzucco? commissioner kingsley?

commissioner kingsl;ey -- kingsley: safety for your report. it seems like these programs are quite thorough. can you tell us what is set up to get feedback from officers to use the resources or maybe evaluation in terms of officers who have not used the resources or feel they have not needed to yet, their knowledge about the availability of such comprehensive resources? >> sure. the advanced officers training is every week at the academy. we do a two-hour block. we give an overview of all of the resources, especially because we have a new contract. everybody needs to know what is available to them and how to utilize it.

we give them all of the numbers, all of the resources, so they can take it home, and the families can access it. they do not have that stigma of having to ask permission, so they can remain anonymous. we have, we have just started talking more about suicide prevention and utilizing volunteers to come in and tell their story. we are doing more interaction and role-playing around that, but how to deal with other members that are in crisis, so there is a lot of training to be done, but we do a lot already, and we would like to do more. commissioner kingsley: thank you. do you see of a form?

-- do you have a form? >> it shows how much time they spent discussing and whether or not they made a referral, and with 300 pure supporters -- peer supporters, but for me, sitting in the car 10 hours with your partner, if you are venting about your divorce or your issue with your elderly parents that may be no, been not been taking it out on the street or not abusing verbally the public, so therefore, you have a place to do it with people who are trained to listen, and i think showing that there are that many contacts, people are utilizing peers over and over, so that tells me it works. they're in a locker room talking about whatever is going on before they hit the streets, and it is diffused, dissipating some of that stress, and that is one

of the best ways to tell, other than keeping the statistics -- we do keep that in terms of how many officers are involved in incidents. some of what happened in the incident and what can we do better at the incident, whether or not we have done a follow-up debriefing, and whether or not we need to, so we do do some of that. we do not keep documentation on what we talk about because of confidentiality. commissioner kingsley: so your information basically comes from the use and reuse of resources? ok. thank you. president mazzucco: commissioner chan? commissioner chan: that you for your report. it is important to have these resources. in an imaginary world, that we will hopefully make happen,

what staff would you like? specifically what type of education, qualification, certification would you want? clinicians, psychologists, etc.? >> having a good psychologist on-site would keep people from walking through the door, and that is a research based truth. in koran school, i have my masters and johnson psychology, and i did some research on that. officers are most likely to talk to other officers burst above because the trust factor, and that is one of the reasons why they will not seek out what is available to them. they will seek out of reserves to have been there, done that, and they trust. it is a subculture. there are several clinicians, which i talked about before, who are also police of a service to our ph.d., and those officers they trust, and these are also the ones that we spoke to the

chief about putting them on board as part of the debriefing process, so that would be some oversight to have a licensed clinician checking in with officers and even being on site with other officers, because they know them and are one of the specialty providers, and the police specialty providers are a subgroup that have been with the behavioral science group for over 20 years, and most of them see this in their families and have known them for a long time, and we refer most of our officers involved in critical incidents to them. commissioner chan: just so i understand, are you describing it current staff that you have? what additional staff would you like? >> i am in shock. yes, yes. commissioner chan: the reason i ask is because we want to continue improving services for

officers, so i asked who else we need in the unit. we may not be able to achieve in the next year, but we do want to know what the needs are so that we can push for them. >> i think we have an officer now who is a certified addiction specialist. we can use another one. another officer in the unit is in the process of getting his certification for that, too. the reason that works is because he is also an officer with that specialty. i think just having the clinicians would be great, and to be able to get someone back on board to work part-time. one used to be the director of police psychology. two days a week to come in and says something like that, that would be great. president mazzucco: do we currently have any officers with their ph.d. or on the way to get their phd? i know we had some in the past. >> one of the problems with that

is that they would have to have already credibility in the department and have gone through peer counseling with the critical incident, and so one of the issues of having a staff that -- president mazzucco: my question is simple. is there an officer that has a ph.d. or is going through the phd? are there any that you are aware of? how many are going 3 program now that may be helpful to your unit? >> i do not know. i do not know. commissioner chan: that was one of our questions, asking if there was a psychologist, any concerns before we return them to duty, and we were told at the time that that does not happen. it used to happen, but it currently does not happen.

we would like to reinstate -- ok. >> that is what this would do. commissioner chan: ok, so that would be helpful. has there been a needs assessment done of what officers would like? and needs assessment? >> i know i would like to have something done for returning vets. mhn does cover a whole veterans section, but it is not in our contract. i would like to have our returning vets be mandated to come through a process before being sent out again to the war zone, and something like that, i know they do get their psychological assessment prior is more thorough, and something like that i think would be very valuable, and i think that

protecting our officers from sending them right out to places that would reinforce their trauma would not be in their best interest. i think we need to take care of them and give them a break, but i think that would be something i would like to do. commissioner chan: a needs assessment has not been done? >> i think they have done a good job think that we could give them more support. commissioner chan: i would like to come back and have a potential action item to find out what we can do to support furthering the unit, and also, i think we should probably conduct and needs assessment to see what officers might want. we see this on the disciplinary end. these issues come up after the fact, and i know they're very difficult. we want to find a way to address this on the front.

>> i am currently meeting with all of the officers at all of the stations. i am doing two again, so i will add that as one of my questions to seat. i know that the officers right now really do avail themselves. i know kevin is almost at everything that i get called out to, too, but i will add that as a question and have a report for your note. the final meetings will be by christmas. >> -- commissioner chan: i am sure they are really appreciative of your making these visits. they like having the chief there. that is different than some private. so with regard to the needs assessment though, i think there should be a public one, where you talk about it and show the command staff at the cheaper the cares about the issue, but i think there should also be an anonymous needs assessment so the officers can fill this out.

>> we can certainly do -- yes, we can do that. >> if you draw up a form, i will pass it out. commissioner chan: i know sanford's vesco has looked at best practices. have we looked at other cities and then incorporated that into our work? >> yes, we have probably the most progressive, and the only thing that i think we are missing is an aspect on prevention that i think needs to be done. i worked with a subject matter expert in suicide and did put together a three-hour video for intervention on prevention, so we can do like an eight-hour course at the academy, and i do not think that is a problem, but i think that needs to be dealt with sooner than later. commissioner chan: thank you.

president mazzucco: i think you do a great job, and i hear your name all of the time, and i think we want to help you out. what we see in terms of discipline. we had several suicides. it had an impact on the commission, and that is why this is coming up, so, please, keep up the great work. it is appreciated. thank you very much. commissioner: you can cancel her on her ptsd stuff. -- council her. present -- present -- president mazzucco: i am sorry. we now go to the other sections.

>> a couple of matters have come to the commission attention that the public might enjoy knowing about, and i thought you might want to comment. one is the new expanded email system, making that communication between the community and officers more available, and then the second was the fact that the department is preparing a video to be included with the it gets better web site, so i think those are two very noteworthy matters. >> so for the first time ever, every member of the police department has email for the first time ever. the policy has gone out of what

it is, why it is. we do need to explain it. what it is, why it is, how it will be used, and now there is training on how to access it, how to use it, how you are expected to use it. we will work on this before it goes out, but it is pretty straightforward, and it is email. to some people, it sounds like we should have had before. maybe we should have, but we have it now. as far as the "it gets better" video, the giants actually were doing that, and then i had a conversation, and she had the idea that if it was ok with the department, we would do it. i believe we are the first law enforcement agency in the country to go forward with it, and we are now working with a producer from apple, and there is another body that is helping

with it, and we are hoping to have that. more officers that i can count have come forward to want to be on the video to try to just reassure youth that it gets better. president mazzucco: line itemsb 3. -- item 3 b. clerk: item 3b, the occ director's report. >> we participated in the night out activities last night that were held in various locations the road visiting, and between this by staff members and of, -- between the five staff members and i, we read at the bayview as

well as at a community center, and in addition, we visited two other locations, and that concludes my report. president mazzucco: thank you. any questions for a directorhickes -- director hicks? next item. clerk: item 3c, the commission reports. president mazzucco: i will turn it over to the commissioners. vice president marshall: the bayview meeting. to me, it was a disaster. the chief was asked by the community to come out into engage in discussion with members of the bayview

community. i guess there were about 300 people there, and i would say 290 of them did not get a chance to speak. he did respond to the call, and i must commend the chief for hanging in there in what i would say very turbulent, and i do not use that word lightly, evening. but the first picture i have is that she tried to speak and somebody standing directly next to him, flanking him as he tried to speak, and this was one of the active protest. shutting him down as he attempted to get a few words out. i actually asked the gentleman to move. i decided i had better not say anymore, because then we might have another problem.

i guess i felt really badly, if i can use that word, for all of the people who came to have a dialogue. that bothered me the most. it is one thing to read your opinion and have your say and not to let anyone else of their opinion or their say, and there was a time that they actually told the chief he could leave. he did not. he stuck around. he actually came back and tried once again, so the chief was just standing there in the face of what i would call vitriol, not being able to respond adequately. i have to give you a lot of credit for just staying there and listening when you could have left. i thought you handled it very, very well, and i thought in your remarks afterwards, you handled it very, very well, and i think you did yourself a lot of good,

particularly where you were the captain that evening in your subsequent engagement with the community. and for that reason, i asked the chief to come on to the radio program sunday. a lot more folks got to listen to that. there were some types of questions that should have been ousted that night that were asked on sunday, and the chief responded, and they went back and forth. i have heard a lot of good things about that show. they came up to me to say "great show" and really got clear on the issues. one of the things that was asked about was protocol and muni and all of the things that should have been asked. i think it went a long way to clearing everybody around policing issues in general and

that incident in particular, so i want to thank you for coming on. i also want to think another for coming on. both law-enforcement in the supervisor working together on this issue, so i want to thank you for everything that you did at that particular time. i think it was serving well moving forward. >> i appreciate it. president mazzucco: thank you. commissioner kingsley? commissioner kingsley: i attended the two events, and one was at a community center. and yes, the of the one, on noriega, which was more of a block cut off between 45th and

46, so they were two different ends of this very large geography of that station. both events had terrific food and music and a lot of events for the children, and children in particular in joining getting into the police cars and seeing how they work. i think what struck me most is that these events really were taking charge of the community, which was terrific, and were well attended. the police officers, and captains were there and a number of police officers, and i think our commission, to thank them for being there and having that presence. there were a number of other community services that were present and available, too, and then, also, thanks to the occ

for its presence and staffing at several of the stations, as well, so i think san francisco did a terrific job on that event. >> it was. it was a great event. president mazzucco: commissioner chan? commissioner chan: first, i went on my ride along in the tenderloin. thank you. the capt. works extremely hard. i think i strutted around 5:30 and came back around 9:00 something. he was still there. i wanted to order him to go home, but i did not want to abuse my power. i enjoyed getting to know the tenderloin station. the reason i was there for a crisis intervention program to

see what the officers encounter on a daily basis, and i wanted to see what we are dealing with. i went on a ride along with two officers, and the both of them gave me a lot of hope, because the captain obviously knew who to choose to show me on this ride among. these are exactly the kind of officers i would like to see applied for the cit program. you cannot make them do it, but they are exactly the kind of officers i would like to see applied. they have to average and were extremely professional. they went out of their way to get out of the patrol cars, talk with people in the community, and this was not just for show. they knew their names and new their lives. there were several committee members on the way to connect. there was one particular woman who had been involved in dealing drugs and taking drugs, and they had helped her to get housing.

she was still up and down. there is no absolute basics test ban the neighborhood they are in, but they were able to connect the members with services and still work with them even when they fell back down, and they were doing what they should be doing, so i appreciate that experience and to take that to inform the cit program, so i have to pick their brains for feedback. the second thing i want to report is i did attend the conference this last week in washington, d.c. i attended in my staff capacity of the asian law caucus. i did see a sergeant there representing the san francisco police department, and what i took away from the experience is that we're all doing great things throughout the country. there are things in tennessee and also in minnesota where they have outreach to immigrant communities.

i would like to bring that back to talk about, because it is almost like our ambassador program but coming out of the police department and strong connection with immigrant- serving organizations to try to deal with the barriers of have a trust and also the language issues, and looking at the language access report that we were provided with, i noticed that there were some areas where the police department is very strong, but there are other areas where we did not receive a check, where we have some work to do, so in the coming weeks and months, i will bring up some proposals. president mazzucco: ok, any further commission reports before we move into the items for consideration? item 3d. clerk: item 3d. president