time, because this is a job, and we are not non-profit, so i think that also needs to be looked at. and, yes, i think what is going to cost people really needs to be looked at before this goes forward, and i would say that, i would really suggest that we do away with the guidelines, because also there are some costs, like training and getting the license, you know, getting the car ready or things like that. that is not small potatoes for me. and a i think we need time. basically, we need time to make sure that this legislation helps and not hurt. president: thank you. next speaker, please.

>> hi, my name is -- i am a small business owner. i am a dog owner. i have been working with it for seven years. i started because i love dogs, and i realize that as much as i put into it, i will get out, and it has worked that way. i have gone to numerous dog classes, taken dog first aid, and i am certified. i also own a two dogs. i take them with me every day. if i have to cut my number is 25 orszag 6, that is going to cost me money, something like $10,000 every year, and i do not think that is there. i think that does not have to be done. all of our dog licenses are different. we work for our clients. sometimes i work on sundays and help them with their dogs, and

it helps people have well- behaved dogs. i feel it is hard to micromanage a group that is the difference, and i feel that some of these restrictions are micromanaging us. i personally do not want to wear a lanyard. i would be ok to carry a card in my wallet if somebody does ask me, but you can see me and know what i am doing. it would be great, people have a huge packs of 16 to 20 dogs, or at least they have a helper to manage such a number. i feel that the $250 is too high for people starting a business. what if they do not know anybody? the also have to pay a tax and get their vehicle approved, by the end and fix it up, -- buy their vehicle and fix it up,

partition it. you want to be able to do that. i also believe the enforcement problem is huge. i have called numerous times about an argentinian spitball or another who is being rough, and fights are starting, and nobody comes -- and argentinian paintball -- pat -- pittbull. i wish dog walkers were not being so vilified because i think we provide a good service, and thank you very much. president: thank you. next speaker. clerk: [reading names] >> before we move on, the director is your, rebecca cavs, in case we have any questions.

-- the director is here, rebecca cat -- katz. >> this originated back in 2003. in 2007, it came before the animal welfare commission, and we came up with a proposal that you have copies of, and again, it then went to recreation and park to administer and figure out how to do it. they did nothing. now it has come back, and people have talked to scott, and he has pushed this for, so this is something that has been in the work for a long time. there was a hearing at the dog advisory committee, and admittedly eight years ago in some cases, but it has been on

the radar for some time. it came to the commission that to a large extent people wanted to make sure that people understood that this was an actual profession. there is kind of a perception that anybody can be a dog walker. i just got laid off of my company, so i am going to walk dogs for a while before i get a real job. and we wanted to make sure that that was not the case. dog walkers are vitally important, as scott and others have said, for dog owners in the city, to know that your dog is safe and that the dog behavior's are controlled and that sort of thing. it is vitally important. we want to give it some legitimate, and this is where a lot of the standards and requirements came from. i also happen to be the chair of sf dog, and i have used a dog walker for years with my dog,

and our main concern is, of course, the safety of the animals, and that is with the vehicle inspections. to a lesser extent, the number of dogs can address that issue. we are concerned that dogs are licensed. we are not cops. there may be a penalty for those who are not license, but i am not sure that drug walkers should be responsible. we could live with aids, i suppose. we hear a lot of owners with people who complain about 12, 14 dogs. a few people can control them, but a lot of people cannot. this is one of the reasons that as dog owners, we want to make

sure that the dogs are taken care of. we support this idea. thank you. president o'brien: thank you. next speaker. >> good evening, small business commission. i am walter paulson. ♪ how much is that doggie in the window? i do hope that i can walk that dog ok ♪ and ♪ i'd love lassie i hope i can walk into the zoo, to the zero i love walking dogs. number two. make it work out, too, for the dog walking item two. i walk my dog

i want to walk him right by you. and you have got a dog walking friend. make it all right. when i walk in them. wog them around the bend, because you have got a best friend that you are walking around. you will walk them to the end, and you will walk your dog in the grassy park to the end. ♪ [applause] president o'brien: thank you. next speaker, please. commissioner o'connor: cannot make a comment?

i just want to make the comment that the first song was the best song and delivered with the best execution korean banks. -- thanks. >> thank you for hearing my comments. i run a small business with dog walking. i have been doing it for two years. i really just wanted to say that one thing i support about the legislation is the requirement that people who abuse animals are investigated and reported, and that information is made available. i think this adds legitimacy to the legislation and that it is coming from the right place. for someone who has been doing this for two years, i was a

little upset to see such an affiliation. what scott has said, they were not part of drafting it. when i with starting line business, i was going to go ahead and enroll in that, and i decided not to. they used to have a couple of training as a year, and i was looking for the calendar next april when this legislation would take effect, and there are four in that month, where there are normally two or three a year, and the tuition went up. tisch i do not really think it is inappropriate for them to be so involved maybe with the legislation. it seems that maybe there is a potential for conflict of interest. they stand to make a lot of

money. the number of dogs is a really hard discussion to have. i usually walk groups of aid to 13 dogs every week, my average criticize being about nine or 10. i like walking be larger groups. i do not feel it is appropriate for every park, but the dogs have a lot of fun, and they do want to stay in aipac. i would like to see the numbers stay as high as possible to make a good living. there are a number of expenses or a dog walking businesses. i have a new vehicle, and death.

i like to provide service for my client. eight seems like a good compromise, and it seems i am out of time, thank you. president o'brien: the local my name is steve. i am a dog walker. i have been doing this for the last couple of years. i was one of those people like was just mentioned. i started doing this when i lost my job. but i did this as a kid, and i loved it.

what has been bounced around historically, neither one of them is ideal. six is going to make it really hard. even seven is going to make it very hard to make a living. i really get a feeling that frankly what people are trying to do is make it impossible for us to make a living. there seems to be a feeling that we make a ton of money. we do not. we walked your dogs or $20. you take one dog away, potentially to the blue dogs a day doing two groups, five days a week, 50 weeks a year, that is 10,000 dollars you could lose. now, it is not going to come to that, but the potential is there. we are talking a huge amount. i would like to see it be as high as possible within reason. i do not like large, large groups, but there is another piniella has mentioned. many walkers walk with their own

dog as a helper. q my own dog is a calming influence in the group. he helps plate, and he goes to get other animals who are straying. i am down her, i am down one more, and now i am down to five dogs. we have a big problem with that, and there are a lot of other things, but that was primarily what i wanted to go into. the number thing is huge, and it does not have to be six or eight. president o'brien: thank you. anymore who want to speak? -- any more?

clerk: i have one more, amy. >> scott waner has left, but i want to thank him for having started this discussion, and i want to thank you for your time, and commissioner dooley, i appreciate that you are out there and see our work. i know you have been in front of the people who are sort of the bane of some of our existence is. i see people here that i see out in the parks, and i see people who are fellow dog trainers, there are a lot of people near i know that are really coming from a place of where their heart is in the right place, but also where they are very educated and passionate about dog training

about making sure that the dogs are safe and having good behavior. we see things and drive us crazy, and to have thumbs for a light fixture is going to robert allenby profession, but i do have concerns. one of my concerns, and because of these concerns, let me say, i do want to push the state further than april 1. there is more that needs to go into this. one is the consistency of implementation being done by animal control. i think scott said a good thing when he said that it is a woefully underfunded the department, and some of the people behind me may not like this, maybe all of them, but i find that to laundered $50 for a license, i am very skeptical that that is going to come

anywhere near the cost of the administration of just the paperwork and then all of the other qualifications that go on and then the enforcement, and i think that you have to look at your business plan, at your revenue margins and at your own financial management and see where you can make some better choices, when we are looking at some of these. 23 dogs, that is over $90,000 a year, so i think there is room for there to be a higher license fee. government entities, when they are looking for bids from vendors, they have a very long bidding process. i know this because i used to work at staffing, and whether it was at sf general or the va,

these were open for a long time, but there are only three vendors. you are we going to use? what is going to be that standard for the education, and then looking at the three-year grandfather clause, listen, and love that car. i never been driving since i was 16. it does not make me an indy race car driver. it does not make me a good dog walker, either. president o'brien: thank you. any more speakers? commissioners, this is it possible action item. anybody have any thought to share with us? commissioner dooley? commissioner dooley: yes, i want

to make a few comments, things we might want to request before continuing on with this legislation. one would definitely be to push back the implication date. it seems that there is more work to be done. the walkers are going to need to be prepared for that, and i think that we should request the longer period of time until it comes into effect. they paid apprentice program, perhaps one that would have lower fees than at the moment existing common stock trading group. certainly, i would urge you to find ways to rev alternative to just having a single choice. i think that the dog professionals should be able to work that out, figure out a way to make that work for them.

lastly, along with the aid, i would request that perhaps there would be an amendment that would allow an additional one unpaid personal blog to be allowed as part of the pack. i am out all of the time with my dog, and the owner's dog is sort of like the herding dog. i do see those dogs are the ones that provide stability for the pack, and so i would urge that one edition of allowing one more dog that is your personal dog as an unpaid dog. those are my comments. president o'brien: thank you. commissioner clyde? commissioner clyde: i do support

limiting the pack to what is an agreed upon reasonable number. i do that for the safety of the people in the parks, not only animals but the people in the park, children in the park, but also when transporting the is, nobody talked about the safety of drivers, and the safety of other people, and i think it is just really important as we look at this that we think about the people who are not part of the dog community and their safety, as well. i like very much that the three years of experience is grandfathered as a number. the ability to map a princess for a lesser rate or fee i think -- the ability to have apprentices, to work with other people and bring people up in all of our businesses, and this is one that is very dynamic, so the ability to add people to the industry i think is a very good one.

the fact is the 8 don limit plus a personal dog, i would encourage that. i think that is good because people are not -- i do not know the specifics i think it is a reasonable number. people and have four dogs, there are people that i would think you are using this as a supplement to their income, and are professionals, but they do other work, so maybe they would only have a few dogs. should they pay the same rate as someone who is working full- time? i do not know what the answer

is. i do not like to see their flexibility relative to their income. we have people trying to go to school, working other jobs, who are at the beginning of their career or at the end of their career, so just some flexibility with the number of their dogs and their cost relative to income i think is a good thing, so i support that threshold of having maybe in a lesser number not be as expensive. i think the fee is a fine. i do not think it is prohibited in any way, and adjusted forward to hearing more about the discussion, but i do encourage flexibility on these issues and really working with the dog walker community. it has been a very thoughtful process, so thank you very much. president o'neil: any other commissioners?

commissioner o'connor: not everybody is going to be in agreement on everything. i do not think they will be vilified. the dog walking community is very appreciated, but this is part of the process of a community growing and becoming more legitimate, and a great example is the supervisor mirkarimi. when he went into office seven years ago, he did something very similar with the medicinal marijuana community. it was not easy. it was a lot of work, but it was kind of the process of legalizing this world, and i see this as a similar thing. the businesses i am involved with, there is reporting, the state board, part of the game of being in san francisco and of being a business. i am just happy that we can sort of walk through this and bang it

out and come to an agreement that hopefully the majority of people will be satisfied by. so thank you. president it o'neil: any other commissioners proved should be formalized kind of a recommendation that we will put forward? i think that the personal dog that the dog walker owens -- owns would probably be a dog that they know inside out and that they can have without a leash and control that done very well because it is a personal god, so i am inclined to agree that that dog would not take from the number of dogs that would be approved by whatever the arguments would say. i have not heard anybody talk a great deal of concern about

exceeding the number of eight dogs. obviously, there is a strong presence of the group here that are from the dog walking industry. of course, they would like to see the number greater because the impact the bottom line. i have not heard anybody, to say that it is really bad and nine dogs or 10 dogs. i understand this is a multifaceted question or wearing safety and wear and tear, etc., to me, it seems to eight dogs possibly with the trainer's job. the dog walkers dog would be sensible unless somebody came forward with a number that was not appropriate, so i think maybe just a recommendation, director, and maybe incorporate some of the others. i would definitely push back the date. yes, we recommend pushing back the date. >> pushing back the date and raising the limit to eight, with

allowing the personal dog, exempting the personal dog. >> and making sure the implementation period is 90 days, not 30. 30 is way short. push it back. >> the implementation -- >> when it goes into effect, they have 90 days. >> i want to caution in terms of, because we talked about an extended period of time, so there is the implementation of regulations that was in the legislation, and then there is the adoption time and if we allow six months or businesses to accommodate transitioning out of plastic bags. we might want to think about it these businesses are going to have to sort of adjust their business model because of the number and not being able to have their clients be able to call them up and at one at the last minute. they are going to need some time

to address -- adjust to their business model and inform to their clients, and clients may have to find somebody else who is set up to work with their needs, and when we talk of the extended time, made the direction is to work with supervisor wiener to work out what that is as opposed to a very specific set. president o'neil: i am inclined to agree that they do not need to wear a lanyard. they can have some sort of idea if they need to have it. i would like to see that put in there. do you think you can formulate something >> what i hear is to push back the implementation date, have a supervisor wiener, not setting a specific time but

being reasonable. allow an unpaid dog. the dog walker's personal dog be in non paid, not included in the limit, and then to increase to eight, and then to work to establish it paid apprenticeship program, and the lanyards are not mandated. do we want to give any direction about the licensing? president o'neal: if the one to provide leaflets as part of their business services, but i do not think that they should have any other application -- obligation. >> all right, and also adding that mandating that the only