business hires an ex-offender part-time, the business' payroll tax expense due to the city would be -- i should say payroll tax due to the city would be reduced by $5,062. again, per hire, one time. we point out on page 5 of our report that because the city does not have information on the number of san francisco businesses that would participate in the payroll tax exclusion for hiring ex- offenders, we cannot estimate the reduction of payroll tax due to the city and because the number of ex-offenders that would be hired by san francisco businesses in order to be eligible to receive the proposed payroll tax exclusion is not known and a potential reduced sheriff's department cost due to reincarnation of these ex- offenders is not known, we cannot estimate potential cost

savings to the city. we also point out that there would be some cost of economic and workforce development to propose -- promote the proposed payroll tax exclusion and that mr. cato of the treasury and tax collector's office estimates there would be a one-time expenditure of about $150,000 for additional costs to make necessary revisions for the existing payroll tax documents. finally, we, of course, consider approval of these -- we consider approval of the proposed ordinance to be a policy matter. supervisor chu: thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: returning to public comment, i do not have any yellow cards, so i will ask people to just line up in the aisle and come up one after the other. i encourage you to do just that. appreciate all those who have been waiting. >> good morning, or afternoon

now, supervisors. my name is larry nelson. i have been up here many times, most times with budget cuts. glad i am not here for that. i would just like to say that i am and ex-felon and that 31 years ago, walden house gave me a chance and hired me. i have not been re-arrested in 31 years. this is the evidence standing here. many people like myself have been working for walden house in haight-ashbury free clinics, and i deal with this population every day and i see the recidivism rate every day. people come back again and again with the same statement -- "i cannot get a job." we had a pretty robust reentered apartment -- reentry department that does to work with the

community, trying to convince employers and small businesses to hire our population. this would be one more big tool that we would have to present to prospective employers as an incentive to try to hire our population. that will be one of the main reasons, -- that will be one of the main reasons i would say this is a great idea. i cannot see any downside at all. >> good morning, members of the committee. i work for the american friends service committee as director of justice and am also a minister at the christian unitarian church in oakland, california. i support the legislation for many of the reasons that have already been stated. i am also a family member of a brother who spent 20 years on the inside. when he was released, the thing that was most challenging was finding a job. when he found a job, he was able to get housing and with that, he was able to take care of his

five children. what i personally and professionally see is that to have a job restores your faith in yourself, allows you to bring this debate in the community, restores your faith in your country and helps you model behavior for your children. we talk about young folks being in the pipeline from school to prison -- having a parent that models have to be a community citizen is big -- having a parent that models how to be a community citizen is big. thank you so much for your time and consideration. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker, please. >> like everybody else who has spoken today, i support the legislation, too. this is the only time i will come before the board of supervisors supporting a tax exclusion measure, having stood in line and heard stories about help for the city is -- about how poor the city is.

i generally do not support him, but i think this one makes a big difference. irrational in your ordinance is so clear on the numbers and effects of not having it that i think we need -- i just want to mention a couple of other items -- the homeland security people are now finding felons all over the country and when someone comes in and you look them up, there it is. they are easily attainable today, and that means there are more of them having trouble finding jobs. also, have housing in the tenderloin for people just coming out of jail. they cannot find jobs. but not everybody returns to crime. a lot of people return to an underworld economy and begin asking friends -- they want to be paid under the table. the only way they can live is

get a job and be paid under the table, so they are joining undocumented immigrants, often, in being paid under the table. i would like to say we also found that some of them were taking care of their parents in the in-home supportive services program, too, because it is so hard finding a job. i hope this will help. he was on the civil service commission and first challenged the city of san francisco on its policy toward hiring felons. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker, please. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i am executive director on the center for juvenile justice. i just want to voice my strong support for this. i do not know if i have much to

add to what has been said already, but i want to put a little into context. california, for the last 30 years, has engaged in what would be described as disastrous policies when it comes to criminal justice. in 1976, with passage of the determinate sentencing law, we had 20,000 people in prison. the determinant act of 1976 eliminated rehabilitation as a goal of sentencing in california. we went from 20,000 people to 170,000 people. these are people coming out of the criminal justice system back into our streets where they have been given no training, no preparation, no rehabilitation. they hit the streets and what do they do? the most important piece of insuring someone's reintegration back into society is the ability

to find employment. if they cannot find informant, then we are permanently marginalizing a segment of our population, which is what our policies have done over the last 25 years. we are permanently marginalizing a segment of our population. this is a step in the right direction. it is wonderful that san francisco is stepping out front to show leadership on this issue, not just to the state of california but to the rest of the nation. i applaud the board of supervisors. supervisor mirkarimi -- this is one of the last times i will call you supervisor. congratulations. please pass this. this is one step. there is a lot more to do, but we hope the reforms that have been put in place over the last six months will move us in the right direction. thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker, please. >> good morning, supervisors. my name is lynn jefferson, and i

am representing the committee for kate horan, who was brutally murdered on october 29, 2010. gary scott hollins is a poster child for why our committee is against this legislation. i would like to ask how you would define and -- an ex-felon. there are many people who are part rolled into the city from out of the area -- who are poor role -- who are paroled. gary scott holland was paroled in april. he was released in august and murdered kate horan in october. he was employed and that is the reason he stayed in the city.

normally, we understand from the investigation we have done in the past year, the -- that obviously, we would like to see people who do get jobs, which this man did, but how will we ever defined -- this man was a violent offender. he pleaded guilty on november 8 to first-degree murder. he will be sentenced on december 12, and he will go away for 50 years with no parole. the legislation is written in such a way that it says "ex- offender" -- whatever it is called. "ex-felon." what about sexual predators? how do they figure into this legislation? obviously, this thing is going to go through today, but is there any way you would consider taking a look at what we are talking about? thank you very much.

supervisor mirkarimi: next speaker, please. >> good afternoon, supervisors. my name is brian boyle, and i am the director of employer engagement for goodwill industries in san francisco -- my name is ryan boyle. goodwill is deeply committed to being -- to the transformative power of work, and we have a very robust workforce development program. we are partnered with the department of adult probation as well as the d.a.'s office and a variety of reentry programs. we focus on job readiness, transitional employment, and with the external community. in my role in employer engagement, we are working directly with employers to create employment opportunities for our entire population. we think that this incentive will be tremendously helpful in

this gaining further in form opportunities for our program graduates. thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker please. >> good afternoon. my name is linda evans. i work with legal services for prisons with children and all of us or none, which is a civil rights organization of formerly incarcerated people. we support this legislation. supervisor mirkarimi, thank you for introducing it and congratulations on your election as our next sheriff. there are a couple of points i wanted to address from previous speakers. one, the question of excluding others from similar protections or similar tax benefits. i think it is important for us to understand that one in four people in california actually do have conviction histories. as a consequence, any tax break that is extended to one of those people who had a conviction

history will, in fact, be part of actually increasing employment for our whole population. one in four is a significant percentage of our population in the city and state. it is crucial that we recognize that this tax break -- if we target people who are recently released with this tax break, which we support, it is also very important to expend some protections against discrimination to those of us that have convictions that are many decades old. i was in prison for 16 years. i do have passed felonies, and i know that it is extremely difficult to get work, no matter how old those felonies are. also, legislation that will be coming before the board of supervisors next year will protect some of the people

against discrimination who do have these older records. we support this legislation. we hope that it will be enacted by the board of supervisors. just one note on language -- i think it is really important for us, including the budget office, to look at the language they use regarding people who have criminal histories. we are not ex-anything. we should not be categorized based on mistakes in the past but rather on our humanity. thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker please. >> good afternoon, supervisors. i work with sanders and anders foundation -- anders and anders foundation. our mission is to break the cycle of recidivism through job opportunities, which come through ged training and skills training. many of our clients face barriers because they do not have ged's.

there are four construction trades that allow people without g e -- g e d -- ged's. the rest, you need to have them. i wonder also it this extends to the construction trade. we have many successes that prove how imperative it is to have a job, but also, i would like to address housing support. having a roof over your head helps you go to work every day. without that, you will not be very successful in the workplace. i highly support this legislation. it will help our clients get the jobs that are so hard for this hard to serve a population that we see every day. thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you.

next speaker, please. >> i want to congratulate you on this legislation as well as you're going to the sheriff's department. i know you will continue to do a good job there also. with this legislation, it is a step in the right direction as far as incentivizing employers to want to -- who want to deal with a tax incentive to put money in their pockets as well as enabling them to hire that harvester population. that is a population i work with, the men and women in and out of prison and the men and women in and out of drug rehab. a lot of them -- they consider this a barrier. the employers consider this a barrier because they do have

these particular titles. whatever kind of legislation or incentives we can come up with that will level the playing field is always a help in the right direction. i am glad to see so many people show up in support of it. the different agencies. the various public comment. someone such as myself working in the trenches in these various depressed neighborhoods -- we see this population every day. this is the population we work for. any kind of help and support to help this population deal with staying out and supporting themselves and their family is a step in the right direction. thank you again. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. next speaker please. >> good morning. or good afternoon, supervisors. i am a small business owner and a resident of san francisco.

i want to congratulate ross for being our new sheriff. basically, san francisco should take the lead in this very good idea that ross had and actually give other counties to follow the lead -- and actually get other counties to follow the lead. basically, this is a new idea that actually other counties should implement and keep our streets safer. >> good afternoon. i worked at city-wide case management for and six program. i am the program director for supportive employment. all of our clients are ex- offenders and have co-occurring substance abuse and mental health disorders. i was in the criminal justice background is the biggest obstacle for people in obtaining employment.

as people have spoken so eloquently, our individuals are the first people screened out of jobs when they are applying for positions. our employment specialists and java developers really have to use their creativity in terms of getting these individuals employed. we also use volunteering. we have clients at the department of rehabilitation, which has been successful. we are most affected at mom-and- pop places that have a commitment to social advocacy, and this tax break would be a huge tool to get many more people employed -- we are most effective at mom-and-pop places that had a commitment to social advocacy. >> good afternoon. my name is john clark. supervisor, good to see you again. glad you have become the new sheriff. it is an exciting time. glad to see the proactive stand we are taking with regard to

this tax incentive. i think it is a great idea. i look at it as a double or to the city of san francisco. there are a number of reports that have been made over the years from the development fund that point to the double bottom line impact on the social benefit that comes from a $10,000 tax break. if i were in a position where i was able to qualify for such an opportunity, it would be a great benefit to me to walk in and sell myself on the opportunity of having the $10,000 tax credit as an added benefit to hiring myself peter i am excited about it. i think when we look to the relative costs and going to be reduced, the $40,000, we look at the opportunity to invest and thousand dollars to set $40,000, when we look at the different types of activities that will come from a person receiving a job back towards the local economy, it is a great idea.

i want to offer my support and say thank you. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you very much. nice to see. please, for those of you who want to speak, do so. i see lou gordon here. >> my name is fred, and i am a retired law enforcement officer from san francisco, actually from the sheriff's department. i spent 24 years here in san francisco working with the law enforcement agencies between the district attorney's office, as well as the sheriff's department themselves. while working at the sheriff's department, i work with in the programs, and i see a lot of programs are very successful in there. working in seeing the inmates that are incarcerated, they are eager to find jobs and work with and that they are released. i wanted to also bring up what was brought up earlier, that not

all ex felons are violent. many are paper crimes. many are just drug abusers, and they are able to be rescued and to continue on with their lives as they continue on. there's another part here, too, that there many jobs that are also out here as well, individuals that a recently laid-off. and there are many individuals that are not willing to take these certain jobs out there that these sex felons are able to have and are willing to have. -- that these ex felons are able to have and are willing to have. thank you, supervisor. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you. >> i am the executive director and founder of recovery survival network, and we do work with x offenders and provide job training, job readiness, job placement, and job retention.

we partnered with some of the agency's. we do on the job training was city-wide case management, there with the ucsf department of psychiatry. we have partnered with dupont from the for-profit sector. city pains, we have been told we can get up to 200 jobs to the small mom-and-pop type businesses. it $10,000 tax credit will make it really possible to help these small businesses to really make it. $10,000 is a lot of money. in any stressed economy like we have right now peter i am in full support of this could i am a resident of san francisco, a voter, and i am 100% on board with this legislation. thank you very much. supervisor mirkarimi: thank you, mr. gordon. any other public comment? seeing none, i believe public

comment is closed. supervisor chu: given that, we will close public comment. colleagues, the item is before us. supervisor kim: i actually just had some questions. i am sorry i did not ask them before public comment, but i want folks to be able to speak. i understand this is one-time did not want to clarify, is it a 607 $5,000 credit per job? for just one year? supervisor kim: it is one time per offender, and it is a two- year cycle. supervisor kim: so one company, if they hired three ex offenders, they would get three payroll exclusions for $675,000 each? supervisor mirkarimi: it would be a $10,000 tax credit. supervisor kim: for each fte. find the second year they hire

three more, with a get it again? supervisor mirkarimi: $10,000 per offender just once in a two- year cycle. supervisor kim: so they would only be eligible one of the years. ok. i just wanted to say that i really do appreciate this. i know i district 6, their many ex offenders that have challenges to employment, and i think that it is important for us to offer an incentive to employers. my wish, of course, is that we have so few financial levers that we would be able to hire more for this amount, that we would require more jobs for $10,000 credit than just one. however, i understand that this is been through a committee process through supervisor mirkarimi's office, and he has played a leadership role around

ex offender reintegration into community, so i really do respect this coming forward to as to the one other question i have is that i know that in the report it said the philadelphia did this in 2007. i was wondering, was not sure if this is accurate. was the $10,000.10-time tax credit for businesses for each ex offender or four ex as a whole? supervisor mirkarimi: i think the budget analysts report to misinterpreted it. that is per offender. not per business in philadelphia. >> do we know how many ex offenders were hired? how many jobs it translate to? supervisor mirkarimi: i believe 12. 13. it underscores the point that businesses were not rushing, and part of my opening comment was

that one lesson learned is marketing. the absence of marketing and informing. not as buoyant in philadelphia. more buoyant in other states that have adopted it, and we're still collecting that information to the but philadelphia is the one that responded to us first. supervisor kim: do we know how many of those 13 continue to be employed or how long they were employed for? >> minimum length -- minimal, six months. it only kicks in at six months. we do not have the data of all 13. some remain employed. supervisor kim: one of my concerns would be long term, it this week will long-term employment for those employees. i would hope that companies would keep them for longer than the minimum 12 months in order to get that tax credit. not sure what levers we have to encourage long-term employment. this is trying to create some

incentive in the first place. supervisor mirkarimi: the reason we pitch is at six months, and we could have done 12, is that there's strong proof and evidence that the recidivism rate is effected in the first six months of release. that is why we decided to move it at a six-month market. supervisor chu: this does not mandate the baby recently released from prison, does it? it would also impact folks who have records from 20 to 15 years ago. supervisor mirkarimi: there is no time line. the public defender may be good point which resonates, that if we want to consider that, he suggested three years as kind of a cut off and accountable to that. supervisor chu: thank you, supervisor kim. i think there is something to follow up with regards to the three-year eminent possibly.

first, a question about the $10,000 or the $600,000 plus salary number. how did we get to that number? why not just be individuals, payroll tax amount? supervisor kim: i think we were trying to calculate both with the city and city attorney's office, what is a meaningful, palatable number? leaning -- learning from philadelphia and the other states, $10,000 is what they deemed as the beginning of what is effective. so one part 5% of the $10,000 is where the 675 comes from. supervisor chu: it sounds like it was not necessarily a magic number. it was taking a look at work philadelphia place their tax credit, which was about $10,000, and working backwards to get that payroll tax value. supervisor mirkarimi: that is correct. supervisor chu: