i think that the conditional use it requirement necessary and desirable as to formula retail, considering what is available, considering the uniqueness of polk street, is something that we have to take into very heavy consideration. and i would be leaning to the small merchants, at the local merchants. the argument that the money is kept locally when you deal with local merchants has great ability -- great validity. everything i have ever read, nationally and in california, has supported that.

i see no financial information, a county information, that gives anything other than the fact that there is nearly a 10-1 differential, the reports i have seen. and that is one of the reasons, of course, i think san francisco enacted this formula retelling the first place, for such neighborhood districts. i will not make any motion at what i have. president olague: commissioner antonini? commissioner antonini: i disagree in some regards. ironically yesterday i was in hayes valley not far from here having a bite to eat, and the discussion came up about formula retell being entirely banned, and what would -- one would expect that the prices and rents are low. actually, that is not true.

everything is expensive, and it is a wonderful neighborhood. if you -- the idea that if you eliminate formula retail, it will be less expensive does not seem to make sense. the best situation is when there is a blood between some formula retail and some independents, because sometimes, and so one of these people, we would much rather shot with the independent because we know them and then have the product. but if you have a bigger job, you have to sometimes go -- with a big paint job, you probably would buy from a larger provider, particularly in a professional. i think it can be synergistic. i have seen that in many neighborhoods. not just with paint stores but a lot of other things did you go there for one product, paint, which you only get paid from the effort -- sherman williams stores. the other hardware needs, you cannot get there, and you would have to go to one of the other hardware stores in the area to buy those things, unless you

feel like taking a trip out of town, which many people do if there is nothing nearby. having done painting on my own and working with contractors who did painting in my office and my house, i know it is important with color matches and other things, sometimes the time lost from the job by having to run the long way to pick up paint is important. if you are doing a job, it is important that you have them there. but the whole issue about -- in fact, sherman williams paid is there in the company store, and they have some of their stores in independents, too, is the same thing with levis. many independent stores sell levis, and you can choose where you want to buy. there is the levis store and you

can buy from a lot of other stores. i do not know that is necessarily a contradiction. the fact that there are so many vacancies in that this store has been vacant since construction was completed in 2006, it is kind of a strange thing that has been pointed up a part of it runs on california street and part of it on polk because it was the neighborhood theater. unfortunately, it is not a theater anymore. this is been a particularly hard place to rent, and looks like the least is $2 a square foot, which is less than almost anybody else in the neighborhood. it is not like they're looking for is our but it lehigh rents. they're looking for some rent, other than vacancies. we're usually supported of -- supportive of business in america. competition is part of what we

believe in. if we have a vacancy in somebody's paying property taxes, i think we will -- we should let somebody in there who will fulfill the rent. and if their local, i doubt they're going to take their money and go somewhere else to spend that money. they're probably going to spend it locally. i think occupancy always terms vacancy in my mind, so i would be supportive of this. i will see what the other commissioners have to say. commissioner moore: i have to disagree with the notion that occupancy trump's vacancy, especially in this case. i would like to share a brief anecdote. it was just three weeks ago that my husband and i repainted with our own hands a 1200-square-foot apartment. all of these supplies were bought on polk street specific and in the corridor which we're

discussing. 1200-square feet from a painting walls, ceilings, doris, a taking of hardware, replacing a bunch of things, and it requires a large number of supplies. unfortunately they're very expensive at this moment. together with a large number of sundries, from all the right tarps, tapes, brushes, and more. and i was able to not only find them within walking distance to my home, but i found them in a number of stores which are all incredibly mutually-supported. that was one of the greatest experiences. one person only had three sets the window hardware. i did not have to ask where i should go, they were immediately telling me, without being prompted, that down the street there was this and that, and they included the brownie's store and another -- and a

number of others. this was a positive experience, because most people say that i can order it for you and have it in two or three days. but this was a perfect network of interactive and coordinated never hit merchants where nobody was really trying to take the total amount of the territory, but they were supporting each other. i am very, very strongly in support of local merchants but i am interested in not only what they are doing to their business model works for the area in which they are serving. that is the right amount of choices, the right amount of supplies, the right amount of variety, including the ability to refer you to somebody else. what i am concerned about in this application is that the applicant and self-described to us what he was trying to do, trying to service the wholesaler, the professional painter.

and i do not believe that this particular location is good for that. i think it is too small, and it does not have a staging area which need on the street or in a parking lot to load your truck or small vehicle with the type of things you do. when you want to go in the polk street corridor to buy a larger number of supplies, the drugstore on pacific at polk provides you with the type of parking, and you can do those kinds of things. i have to basically say that i am in support of the concerns with the local merchants, that this is not the right location for this application. i would like to make a motion to disapprove. >> second. commissioner borden: i think this is a difficult case, because on the one hand, i

sympathize with the vacancy issue of that particular space. i used to live in this neighborhood and i remember when the old theater was a vacant, vacant for a long time. finally it was torn down. it was sad, and the new building -- the marquee does look nice, but i have noticed the space has been vacant for a long time. so that has been a very unfortunate outcome. obviously we would like to see that space activated. on the other hand, i used to shop all the time at brownie's and knew all the different merchants there. for me, the most compelling thing is when he said 20% of his business were for painting in painting sundries, which is pretty surprising. i did not expected to be so high. that is a pretty good amount of business to be potentially threatens in these local

merchants, and that really concerns me about that. because it is not a situation where, you know, one of the reasons we all love to live in san francisco is that every neighborhood has its own individual and unique character. it is not anywhere, usa. you do not drive down the big el camino real and find this store in that store. we do not want it to be that way. i am not selling sherman williams is part of that network, so to speak, because it is not. i have never bought paint, not to say that other people do not need to buy paint, but i actually think that is the kind of overwhelming to think about buying paint because of all the choices these days -- and away, that is just a side bar. the other thought around a store that would fill this space is, ideally it would be something that would have more of a broad appeal to people in the neighborhood, because i just do

not know how often people need to paint their buildings. i imagine it once every so often. but it sounds like we have enough stores in that area to accommodate it. yes are not against sherman williams. i grew up with sherman williams. i think it is a great store. i think the idea of supporting the contractors -- and there are a bunch of different businesses of that type in the area but i am not suggesting that i know anything is vacant or that the neighborhood is supportive, but another is an echo system of contractors that service the home industry, and that seems like it might be a place to look if you have not already as a potential spot. but i do have to agree that on polk street, if that is one of your main audiences you're seeking to reach out to, it does not seem like as ideal of the location, and it is right near the bus stop. it would be problematic if there are a lot of trucks pulling up their right by the bus stop. on this one, even though i

typically would be supportive because i think the vacancy needs to be filled, i think in this case it seems that there's a lot of evidence that this is not necessary and, for many, not desirable. commissioner fong: i am going to take a different position and maybe in an unpopular one. i think this actually serves a different need then maybe the small hardware stores, someone painting their own apartment. we have the van ness corridor right behind it. we have many apartment buildings in the area or maybe a building owner wants to do a significant size job that is more than two gallons of paint. to commissioner moore's question, it is a curious if this is a place where people can come in and look at swatches and plays a larger order for delivery to the actual job site or pick it up -- it is not a

warehouse, correct? >> correct. commissioner fong: for all the larger buildings in the area, then as corridor -- and we want property owners to make improvements to their building's overall. so i think this will benefit a different niche. i am in honor of a small business and fearful of someone else coming in, and that might threaten the portion of my business as well, but i would be surprised if you probably sell more than four gallons at a time of paid at one time, and i think this might serve a different niche. i will see where this goes. i will support the filling of many vacancies in san francisco. commissioner antonini: i think, as commissioner fong was pointing out, there are some options that the sherman williams people pointed out about quick drive and some other products they're having, and i do not know whether that will

solve these products to stores that will sell them independently or it will only be sold ed sherman williams, but having a lot of experiences with the fog in san francisco, a quick drying paint is important to have. also, this is an extremely dense area. 50,000 residents per square mile in this area. obviously if they feel they need to locate here, i think there is the belief that there is a lot of business here. so i think that it is, you know, an important thing to have this here, just as, again, you shop for different things for different reasons. i pointed out before, most of the time ago to the independent hard wear store. if i am painting a fence outside, i will grab some paint there could i am not saying that the paint there is any worse than the painted a larger

wholesaler, but if you're doing a big job, usually well, and painters have preferences. i have worked with a number of painters who like a particular paint for a particular reason. of course, they will drive out of town if they have to to get the paint and give the business to san mateo county or someplace, the taxes, but they are particular about their pains. while there are other sherman williams stores in san francisco, i think keeping business here in an area with a lot of wood frame structures and stucco structure that will be paid to it constantly, i think it will probably help the business in the independent hardware stores, rather than detract from it. that would be my opinion vietor i am in favor of it, but we will see where we go. commissioner miguel: there are some arguments here that i have got to comment on, the argument about levis and other stores

have been levis. sending those with nike downtown. these are flagship stores that are not expected to make any money, truthfully. they break even. they do their business with tourists. without the tourist business, it would not succeed. they are advertising more than anything else. we run into similar situations here. i understand commissioner fong's argument about the van ness avenue apartment houses. professional contractors have their contacts, where they deal with it. other than the condo owner, the professional contractors already have their contacts. they do not have to look around on polk street to find a new paint store without any question. and truthfully, i think -- i believe any way, at least in my mind, that if they were going to

open on van ness avenue, this might be a different consideration. maybe not, but it could be. after all, when we turned down american apparel on valencia, we told them to look more at mission street. when we had a small pet store on neighborhood streets, we said to go to a more major commercial street. in my mind -- and it was also a little hint of something saying they were professional, and they are. i am not questioning the staff at sherman williams. but having known the reputation of brownie's and others and cole's, these are as professional as you can find in san francisco, as are their staff. so i see no problem in those arguments whatsoever. commissioner borden: i want to

reiterate, there are three sherman williams stores, and the city is only seventh-by-7. it is not like you can drive to another town or, you know, even another city. for me, that is the reason that it is different. i understand that there might be people in the neighborhood with up to have sherman williams. but my general experience about how often people go to a paint store, the average consumer does not do that very often. we all admit that. people do not pay their buildings all the time. so i think that makes it a little different. if we had no sherman williams stores in san francisco, i think it would be a different conversation. the closest one is not very far on geary. actually, there's one on 245 van ness, too. anyway, i think that, you know, if people really want to get the paint, there adequately able to do so. president olague: this is a

really difficult one for me. we heard a chase on california a few weeks ago, too, and i was torn on that one. i think some of the formula retail discussions we have are pretty complex, and i look forward to them becoming a little bit more in depth when we start meeting, hopefully, with the small business commission and have more public vetting of these things. there are areas of the city were these discussions to not even occur, which is maybe why when you walk down market street, you see about three walgreen's and two cvs' every other block or something. there are things like that that eventually might become part of a larger discussion in the city. but on this one, i am actually leaning more towards, i guess, the kind of quandary that was raised by the middle polk association, which is to have a

vacant storefront that has been vacant for a few years. and you have somebody who is willing to occupy that space. so that would employ people, that sort of thing. i am not -- i think that in some ways by having a store front filled, it would increase activity. i would hope that people buying habits are diverse enough for their going to be committed, those of us to do shop more or less independently -- i was on polk street a few weeks ago and went to weekstthe tibet store an the local bookstore, which is still unique. but i think i am going towards a more conservative perspective on this. it seems to me that commissioner borden -- i respect her motion, but i am going to go with the

idea of activating that space and actually having someone there. so i am taking a more, you know, i guess conservative stance on this one. it seems to me that, most likely, this project will not be approved today. but i just wanted to say that i am torn, but i am actually going to go for filling the space. commissioner antonini: i just wanted to mention that the public may not be aware of these, but we have three letters from some businesses who are in support. one has been there forever. and two others that are retailers in the area who depend on foot traffic and more activity and will benefit, but they're not competitors. that is one reason why they are in support. so we have to realize that there are people who will probably benefit if there's more activity

going on if this place is no longer vacant. commissioner borden: i have a question, i guess, maybe to some of the other merchants and 80 two sherman williams if there would be something that could be -- i do not know if there is something that can be worked out. i know that we cannot intervene on what people can put on their shelves, but i wonder if there is any middle ground -- i do understand the concern about the vacancy, but i still want to protect the small businesses. i believe competition is important, but i believe there are other stores. i do not know, and i would love to hear from maybe mr. cornell who has been on polk street for such a long time, if in his mind there is any sort of way that there could be a coexistence? >> say no.

commissioner borden: i am just wondering. i know there have been cases where we have encouraged people to stop different things on their cells. you have to speak from the microphone and not the audience. >> to clarify, we i don't shoot -- sherman williams corporation owns several other companies. so the only place you can buy sherman williams-label products is a sherman williams store. president olague: mr. cornell, you can come to the microphone also. >> there will not be a sherman williams product in his store. the only sherman williams stores sell sherman williams products. president olague: it looks like the motion -- please, mr. cornell. definitely. >> i cannot think of any

compromise like that. commissioner borden: i just thought i would ask. president olague: ok, we have a motion on the floor to deny the project. recall the question. >> the motion on the floor is for disapproval of the proposal that is before you. on that motion, commissioner miguel >> no. >> commissioner borden president olagu, -- the passes 4-3. thank you, commissioners. you're now on item number 13, kasich 2011.0861dd comment

discretionary review request. president olague: no point taking a break, right? we should go through with the two items. >> good afternoon, planning commission couldn't i am the southwest team leader. we have a request for discretionary review of the building permit a -- proposing for a two-story horizontal addition in a one-story horizontal edition for 2478 43rd avenue, located in the rh-1. the property is in the outer park side never met. the property is approved with a 1900 square-foot single-family dwelling there was constructed

in 1994 -- 1944. three bedrooms and one that on the primary living level. is marred -- a small storage unit, tandem parking. the review as requested by the owner of 2476 42nd avenue, located behind the subject property. he is opposed because it is -- because it is incompatible with the skill of the neighborhood and would set precedents for vertical and additions to the neighborhood. there are several neighbors on 42nd avenue who are also in support of the request for the same reasons. the second review as requested by the owner of one of the adjacent properties south of the subject property. she's also opposed to the project because it would create a larger blank wall on her rear property line, and there would not be any privacy as a result. the department has received two

e-mails in support of the project from persons outside of the neighborhood. the department is recommending to not do it and approve the project proposed. it is act -- adequately setback -- [inaudible] the rear wall aligns with the main rear wall of the adjacent building to the north, with the rear of the building stepping down to the rear yard area has a horizontal rear addition as proposed, which will be two stories tall. a minimum of 40 feet separates the dr request your's building and the subject property. that concludes our presentation. president olague: thank you. we have two dr's, so we will hear from both of you separately. i do not know which order you prefer to go in. you each have five minutes for this one.

>> good afternoon. i am james warhol, and a live on 42nd avenue. thank you for your time today to hear a plea to not approve this proposed project. when i say our plea, i say this because i filed a discretionary review on behalf of myself and eight neighbors on the block. you'll be hearing from several of them asking you to say no to this project. they will file their own discretionary review, but it is $500 each, a financial burden. so we put our money into one review. some of them cannot make it today because they have to work or are at home sick or have other obligations. i have one letter from one of the people who could not make it. i can distribute it. the abbreviated analysis, written by michael smith of the

planning department, does not indicate opposition to this project other than the two discretionary reviews. he does not show all the e-mails and phone calls he received in opposition. let me assure you there are more than two households the proposed the current proposed project. we have eight households actively meeting on discussions on how to stop the current proposal firm being realized and a petition signed by other concerned neighbors. i can submit that, too. we were all shocked to find up to their original plan for the project was only a horizontal extension and that the planning department told the applicant to go vertical instead it when the original proposal came out, i looked it over and had no objections. i thought no more of it until i got the second proposal initiative vertical extension. why? that is when the neighbors came together to try to convinc