administration of the contract. that is one of our issues. supervisor wiener: the minimum wage in san francisco is now -- is about to go to $10.25, if i'm not mistaken. it will be 10 and a quarter in january. my understanding that the prevailing wage for janitorial is about 1250 or 1275, we're talking about 2 and 1/4, to end the half dollars difference, is my understanding. some people assume that everyone is making 20, 30, $40 an hour. janitorial, it is not that much higher than minimum wage. can you address that?

>> that raises one of the other issues is that we have job training programs that we fund which are literally training programs. they are not fully functional ready to go custodian's but they do engage in custodial activities. the idea is to eliminate that exclusion from this ordinance. we're not sure what that would do to our programs unless we need to pay the rate for trainees. the budget analyst said that he is not able to tell you. i know that there will be a cost increase to our agency as a result of this and it would be good for us to know what that is

before this legislation goes forward. whether we are asked to swallow cost or whether we have the additional funds to pay these costs. we are seeking information at this time. >> ok. >> we do have several contracts for our housing program where we have employees that have multi functions. on we don't have a full-time custodians in these housing units but some people who work on maintenance or assess clerks also provide maintenance services and we are not sure if they are covered or non covered. this would change the wage structure for many of our contracts. this could be affected by this change. finally, the issue of the

leases. we too have several leases where the custodial services were provided as part of the lease and again, we don't know whether there would be increased costs to us or to these changes which would then be passed on to us in the form of additional lease costs. we would like to know before this legislation gets put forward. >> i don't know if you have spoken with my office. if you could make sure to talk to her, we want to convene people and make sure that we're working through these issues and we appreciate the feedback. now, the department of public health. >> good morning.

we have a concern that is very similar. we have one contractor that provides a jobs program, vocational rehab for our clients and they provide janitorial services. then we have supporting housing sites which provides janitorial services on site. we do appreciate the opportunity for the continuance and having further discussions. >> we would like to get your concerns down. i know for book this item and for the previous item where we send the prevailing wage, you had indicated an inability to estimate the cost. that seems like a prevailing wage issue generally. can you explain that? >> yes, madam chair, members of

the committee, it is unknown of whether or not that a contractor as a result of an increase in prevailing wage rates would increase the bids to the city. we don't know if this could result in a higher bid. if it does and the resultant increase costs, it would be an increase loss to the city. >> that is the prevailing wage generally? >> absolutely. that is what we advise the board in previous years. >> this is somehow not unique in that regard? >> no, it is not. it has the new specific provisions that could result in some increases in costs but as far as the prevailing wage, this is not unique.

>> ok, we will proceed with the remaining public comment. >> supervisors on the budget committee, good morning. i'm the executive director of the san francisco labor council and we fully support this legislation. i think all of you on the board of supervisors have struggled with the various contracts in the various years in the industries we have talked about because there has been a race to the bottom with some of them. we are trying to close some of the loopholes. all of these different industries that you have indicated, they have put together a standard of

prevailing wages in order to stop this race to the bottom of this really will close the loophole. i want to make one comment. the idea of an independent contractors, this is prevalent in many areas of the nonunion private-sector. for this tikrit into the public sector and is something that the supervisor should be looking at. the contractor pointed out that this is a real disease that we have to stop and we applaud you for moving forward. we to fully support this legislation.

we want to make sure that the issues get covered because that might not be quite as tight in this piece of legislation. we urge due diligence. thank you. >> they cued -- the que. next speaker. >> and want to ask the members of local 87 if they can stand and also local 251. all of these members are members that every day come to our individual local hiring looking for work. it has been about jobs and could too of like to share our anxiety and frustration. talk about the race to the

bottom. we have a lot of single mothers and fathers i cannot make red because of these jobs. and stand the prevailing wage will be a high topic within the city. it is about trying to make this month's rent. we want to make sure that we can have a city that we can be proud of that can speak on behalf of all of those families. what i mean is that a gentleman from one of the department's spoke about disabled member is getting a flat rate. i think it is a disservice because people are disabled, we should shortchange them in terms of what they need. the nonprofits that have questions, they can work on this together.

thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. >> [singing] said the worker man to uncle sam, do you hear what i hear? more budget wage money shining in the night, shining their bright and bold, let us bring them silver and gold let us bring them silver and gold let us bring them silver and gold and gold >> [regular voice] thank you. >> and good morning.

i end with a nonprofit social enterprise in the city. we are one of the contractors that were referenced. we serve about 400 individuals both in job training and placement. my main concern with the removal of the exemption is that when -- that our training programs would not survive. most of these people are on it as as i -- are on ssi. this would jeopardize the program. my name suggestion would be to leave in the nonprofit exemption or social enterprise exemption. >> one thing that i am more interested ideas about the non-

profit exemption which is very broad and if there are perhaps a more narrow exemption that could accomplish the goals of this legislation while taking account into the needs of these very specialized programs. >> we came down and learn about it. we have a great time with your staff. thank you very much for including us. >> hello, i am from a social enterprise that has a history of training and employment for people with disabilities in san francisco.

we really support the goals of consistency and consolidation. we have concerns about the unintended consequences that were spoken about for the people that we serve, people with disabilities, are around benefits and viability of our training program. we thank you for the offer to continue the dialogue and we will be in touch with gillian. >> thank you very much. >> speaking as a community advocacy organization working to promote opportunities for disadvantaged communities, we strongly support this legislation. it is very good. we think it is important what is happening here. in light of the fact that we will take another week to work

out some of these changes, it has been stated that there is a desire to approach another industry for a race to the bottom which is on city contracts for landscaping. there are many contracts that are and minimum-wage and no benefits. in fact, there have been steps on that through treasure island on work that supervisor kim did. in saying that, this is an opportunity. ehud could add this week that we had, you could add landscaping as a covered industry and taking advantage of what you are developing here. you would do that by moving the current section and insert a new landscaping and development definition. i know this one has been on the books for like a year.

i have some papers on hand. there is some language so we can look at how we can require prevailing wage on landscaping and make this even better. >> thank you. >> we will continue to work with you and with local 261 to see what we can do. next, we have ramon hernandez from local 261 and then local 350. >> thank you for supporting these prevailing wages. on a and lead to work with

supervisor wiener. it does mean a lot of work for san francisco. i hope that we can do something to work it out. i am pretty sure that we can do something with the nonprofits, to do something with the training and what ever we have to do. >> good morning, supervisors. as you know, the hiring process is for the people of san

francisco and a majority of the minorities and small areas where they have economically challenged residence. this is a beautiful program, it works well, and we want to keep it that way. as mentioned, we ended up losing some members to the contract and those drivers were not paid and probably still are not paid. i think that is a travesty. we support this legislation and we hope that you can vote in it through the committee. thank-you for your support. >> thank you. are there any additional public comments? i see that the city purchaser has arrived. do you want to say anything?

>> i am the sustainability chair at the san francisco green party and i also coordinate local grassroots organization and our city. i want to speak in favor, now that we have a delay on this, let's get it right. landscape workers need our support. we need to make sure that every worker that is hired by the city gets as much pay and benefits as they can, especially after the last election. now that we have a delay, there is no reason not to be more inclusive. in my work for clean energy, i have directly saying the laborers run into problems because the rules were not laid it down about who works when for what they. let's get ahead of the game and

make sure that since we have a delay any way, let's do it right. >> thank you. are there any further public comments? >> given that there are no comments, we will close public comment on the item. >> would you like to add anything? i know you have thoughts about possible amendments. >> yes, supervisor. i was unable to get those by the end of this meeting. i would argue that this is a friendly amendment to create a level playing field. i am still working, i was hoping that this is not a substantive amendment. >> as i understand them, it seems like they would be very process-oriented. >> madame chair, if the committee would adopt the amendment, this would be from

the beginning. >> motion to adopt the amendment. >> thank you, supervisor mirkarimi. >> what i would ask is that the committee continue this item to january 4th budget committee meeting which i believe is the next one. we will work with the departments and the nonprofits that came out today to try to see what the common grounds we can find. we will work with ms. kelley on her amendments and we will continue to work with local 261 to see if we can include that work in this legislation or if we need to find legislation. we would come forward with additional amendments which may or may not require an

additional one week continuance. >> we have a couple of questions. >> actually, i will take the liberty of this opportunity that this will be my last budget committee meeting where i would be able to co-sponsor something. this is an apt response to what i believe is overdue in assigning the prevailing wage for this segment of our work force. i would like to be identified as a co-sponsor. >> thank you. >> no questions. it just some general comments. i would like to appreciate supervisor wiener and his office for taking on this issue. this is overdue. i appreciate a lot of the work that went into cleaning out the ordinance and making consistent the penalty for violating the

wage. also, extending new contracts. i think that we saw it is really crucial in terms of making insistence for those that are employed. i'm looking forward to some of the discussions. we did talk to some of the nonprofits. i am interested to see if there is any feedback on ways to narrow the profit exemption. i am very supportive of the rest of the ordinance. thank you, supervisor wiener. >> thank you, madam chair. i am here on a different item and i wanted to take an opportunity to say a couple of things. thank you too supervisor wiener and his office for the work they have done, and to our labor partners that have worked to identify this as an issue for quite some time. i am proud to be a sponsor of

this legislation and i am glad to see there is work in terms of figuring out whether a narrow exemption is appropriate. i do hope that to the extent that there is an exemption that it is as narrow as possible. it is a roddick to see some nonprofits talk about not having to pay prevailing wage. i think that we have to be very careful in how we craft any exception. i think that prevailing wage is something that we should try to aspire to as much as possible and that should be the norm, not the exception. >> we have made to the motion. just a couple of follow ups. in terms of department feedback, i appreciate the opportunity to work with the department to make sure that we're not adversely affecting some of the nonprofits and the other contract in work they do. i would ask supervisor wiener if

he would reach out to the other departments to make sure we have covered at our bases, whether there are other folks want to consider, and in regards to the financial impact, i and stand the argument that there is not too much we can assume in terms of how bidders will come in within the prevailing wage rate. it is very difficult to estimate what the impact would be on the city. give us some thought on how we can provide more impact us information about what the impact would be. i think that the report did not have too much of the financial information that we would like to consider. finally, we have worked very very hard.

and a stand of this will impact these efforts. "we will have time to consider those impacts. we have a motion to continue the item to january 4th and we can do that without objection. thank you. now, if we can call item number nine and 10. >> hearing to include financial update and information on budget instructions and process for fiscal year 2012-2013. item number 10, hearing too examine the current san francisco public utility commission rates and cost of service before city departments and other customers and consider impact of change in rates to cover cost of service. >> thank you very much.

for this item, we're joined by supervisor campos. i want to make sure that we are hearing this in conjunction with budget updates. i would offer to the supervisor opening comments for the power rates. >> the staff has been diligently working on this issue. this is an item that we ask for a hearing on because it raises some very important issues about how the san francisco public utilities commission is charging city departments, the cost of providing electricity.

this is important for us to understand that there are long- term implications on the puc. the p c is a very important asset to the city and candy of san francisco 10 too want to make sure how this is properly handled. we will be hearing from the public commission today. some of the numbers are so sick with that practice and some thoughts about moving forward to. what happens, there will be a budgetary impact on city

agencies and city departments which is why i think it makes a great deal of sense that this is happening in the context of a larger budget discussion. i look forward to the presentation, the discussion. i apologize that i must about 4 part of the meeting but i have a previously scheduled meeting that i cannot change at this point. i would like to thank the puc, the general manager, and his staff, for the good work on this issue. >> did you very much. i will ask the mayor's budget director to come forward. >> good morning, supervisors. i'm here to represent the mayor's budget instructions for the next fiscal years.

i will start off with a little bit of context. let's get the context. i will present the general fund. this will be labor negotiations. this will be a factor in our negotiations. by way of context, i think the most important thing is that this is the first year that the city will be adopting a budget for all the departments. this is the first time that forward general, we will be adopting a general