respect you very much, i just want to have one question because you are out there and you know how to customers johann. and get into your cat, i have paid attention to what color scheme it is because that is something we remember. i run my credit card and a later have a problem with that, you're suggesting that i call you. how would i do that? >> despite that i am supposed to be a business owner, i have no adequate means, because of the kinds of restrictions, as somebody who is required by regulation. >> i understand the second point. but the customer service issue, because i take everything you say very seriously and i learned an awful lot, as you know. but the customer service point doesn't ring true. how is somebody supposed to call

the cabdriver? dr. that would require me to own my business. >> appreciate it, john. as always. >>, i understand, there is an e- mail or something sent out. am i wrong? if there is an e-mail sent out, then you might get that information on your fun. >> if it was coded by driver. >> which it is not? gosh i of the the answer, but i would be surprised if it is. >> i thought it gave you coating to get back to the driver. >> it allows you to give back to the color scheme. that is the important question to follow up.

>> next speaker, please. a doctor in the afternoon, directors. it is christmas. are you going christmas shopping? would you have everybody walkup to swipe a credit card on a hand-held machine that came out of their pocket? what about if you went to a restaurant and the waiter walks up to a table and gives it back to you. i have to look at security. that is very important. if we let all these different systems go out, who is going to control it. it is a cheat device. how do you protect the people from a cab?

the police department can see it. you can check into. that is a way to ensure their safety. safety and security. you'll know how many frivolous lawsuits, against the mta. reduced opening the door for more for us. on the back seat device, the screen illuminates the back seat at night. it makes the bad guy really sticks out. if something happens, we have a great picture and he doesn't even realize we have that wonderful light on him. when they talk about what happens with the system goes down, you have to use a knuckle buster. what did we do years ago? everybody had to use it. the last point real fast, what are we complaining about, 5%? the remember when we didn't have

credit cards and the business we got? it would've been 10 times the price. people are using their credit cards for everything. 5% is cheap for the amount of business that they get. there is a cost of doing business and to have to do it as best we can and as safe as we can. >> basically, this report is pretty much contrary to previous testimony in this pretty much what we figured out in the town hall meetings. there was one group that didn't like the outcome, but it was one person with 7000 followers. the other groups basically agree with the compromises that we have here. i am assuming you are talking about electronic waybills, that compromise put through that

would give data to the mta and leave individual data alone, which was basically agreed upon. square seems to be the big thing, but i see that -- is should be kind of a non-issue. if you can't lower the credit card fees to 3%, even john admitted he was only being charged 4% which would leave a 1% would go right there. i think lowering the fee would take care of that. in the meantime, if you pull the square, you will find a bunch more cabdriver's not taking credit cards in that is not a desirable outcome.

>> news of the last people. -- next two last people. >> regulating the taxi industry at all as for service and safety. on both counts, you can't make a case for having drivers pay these credit card charges. the fact is, as long as there is any charge on the driver, be it 5% or 2.75%, a driver is going to discourage the use of the credit card. it is also bad for a safety because it is desirable to

reduce the amount of cash in a cabin so that when robert tries to robert kavner, he only gets a few dollars. all the rest to me is fluff. this 5% feet, it has crept in here because it was done in new york, and it was done here, there, and the other place. and the reason that this is happened is very simple because of cabdrivers and oppose a cab companies are powerless everywhere. they are the ones that should be responsible for these fees. it is the simplest thing in the world. the report says, this is prohibitively expensive for

companies and will drive them out of business. and where is the data on that? what about a cab company manager telling that to somebody in an interview room? that is all i have. >> good afternoon, i was one of the first people using the square. there is a question about of somebody questions the charge. i can tell you what happens because i want to use my two minutes for what i want to say. about the device that we have in the cabin, i had one of the first ones, and my cat is not wired right. the light is always on so i get all of these hate vibes.

the pin doesn't work that well. i talked to somebody at square and they told me that they only keep about 25% of the transaction. most of my passengers are really happy with a square. they think it is the, technologically based, and minimum charge might be helped. but i don't think it is up with the times. one of the problems when you can only believe the reports that you hear, he can only believe the people that he has talked to. but if the people has been talked to are cherry pick and he doesn't know that, he will come out with what they tell them. most of my passengers are very

happy with square, and i think they are innovative and i would really object as an independent business person having to use a particular form. that is my decision. i know a lot of independent contractors. i was an independent contractor for a long time. they make more money that i do. >> can you tell me about the square? >> i have to charge backs. this is what happens. they call square, it's as the square has charged and they find out who has charged them. square contact me and says, who have had a charge back, can you tell us more about this? i tell them that was a ride to

the airport, i also mark when i used it. i have a mark that i make so i can back up any questions. they get back to the person and they realize, i did ride from the airport that time. and if the person still objects, they give that person back their money and high a heat that money. i had to buy a smart, and i had to have an account. you have a merchant account and operating accounts. >> of the merchant account is individual to the driver? >> now they have worked out something to make it easier for the driver's, and some drivers, because it is so easy and they don't have to create this other merchant account don't mind the 5% because the charge can pay

their rates at the end of the night. the technology is so innovative and changing all the time, i think there is another system or you hold the card over the phone. one of the problems was that the bureaucracy was so far behind the business that there was an economic collapse. and you as an administrative body -- >> the customer service agent, that is what you're telling me? >> have a contact me and i clarified. they either get the money back where they say, i remember and i get the money. >> i have had the one in the

back of my cab to since we started. i was one of the guinea pigs that got one. there were a few glitches in the beginning, but all my customers except for what and this is over six months, loves it. they think it is gray, once in awhile there is a problem and have to get into the back seat and help them with it. i can see what they are doing. otherwise, it is really great. i don't think there should be a minimum charge because usually if people have enough cash to pay a $7 fare, they will pay, and if not, they will charge. i use is where the vice as well.

i thought about using it in the cabin, but is pretty user intensive. you have to type in what the charges for and you can't print out to receive on the meter that says what cabin, what time, and all that to give to the customer as well as the receipt that you e-mail them. >> that one person that didn't like it, what was their objection to the device? >> the bright light. i think we have dealt with that sense, it was quite a while ago. they're the only one that said anything bad.

>> i am with the sentences of cabdrivers association. i have been using the square since you guys start of the 5% credit-card fee. originally, nobody had heard of it and even still, nobody complained or expressed any skepticism to me at all. the people who are criticizing this are basically the companies to stand to make money off of advertising. they want us to use their back seat terminals and other credit- card companies that can collect the higher processing fee or whatever. everybody not only doesn't hesitate, they love it. most people already know what is, and a lot of people use it themselves.

it is ridiculous that they are not safe. they are safe. and since my name to the customers, but they know my name when i send them the receipts. as far as the $10 minimum, there is a federal law lets as merchants are allowed to charge $10. i don't know why this doesn't include cabdrivers. i drove the deluxe are calve the other night, and it was very annoying. there was a bright light, i had been out drinking, i had the off button and the light is still on. i asked the driver to turn it off. i could see where to swept the credit card because the light is shining in my face.

>> i am a yellow cab driver, also was one of the guinea pigs for the back seat terminal. i have to say that apart from one customer, again, all the customers that have voiced any opinion about it, it has been totally favorable. and i like the fact that they don't have to relinquish their card and that they are doing the transactions themselves. i have seen an increase in my chips. it is in the range of 20% increase because they are prompted. they can even program it like when it is a lower fee, he promised are higher and a lot of people that would give you $45

of $45 fare are giving you an additional $3. i agree the brightness of the screen is an issue. if we haven't already adjusted it to where they can then the brightness, we are in the process of adjusting in. i think that is a very justifiable complaint. >> these are the last two people that submitted a card. >> this is a good thing, this is what we're going to words for safety and accountability. and these other things, we need to speed up about noise and things like that, they are just a bounce in the road right now. the big thing though is the 5%.

if the companies, the management, the drivers, we should be allowed to form our own bank and have the charges run through that, the driver pays the one when seven of the companies in drivers, again, it is a simple solution. and also with the machines, who in yellow cab, it is basically to the point where any day -- you get into your cabin, order it, you get in and a swipe at once and on the way out and you go like this end of the door you go. let's speed it up and get moving to the twenty first. >> our last speaker.

>> i am a general manager and owner, and i am trying to keep myself from the drivers to distance myself, the fact that in my company and the belief a lot of cap companies, the drivers are under contract. and from my perspective, i do think it is the right thing to do to charge them in a percentage in the first place because [unintelligible] and also the driver's should have a choice, to choose how they are going to manage their own business if they feel comfortable with square, that is fine. i would like to make a profit myself, too. but again, the beauty of our business is that we have such a

good service in san francisco because we're providing such a good service for the public. i just want you to keep in mind that not everything is the, let's start making recommendations. but everything is so bad. let independent contractors decide how they want to manage their own business. >> members of the board, a couple of things. i am persuaded that the 5% is too high. i think that ought to be rolled back. i am not sure where the level is. also, i happen to ride in different cabs yesterday, and i enjoyed the back seat modern.

where are you? is kind of interesting. the only thing that, i was trying to listen to jay leno at the volume was not loud enough. [laughter] they could have been good jokes, i will never know. i think it is a fundamental tax the experience that should be virtually the same for everybody. you expect certain things are going to happen. the way you're not really surprised. that is the overall philosophical point on this. i would like to hear from members of the board. >> i feel obliged to say this, we get a lot of comments on taxicab issues and help our discussion here today and engaging some of the speakers have shown you how much we care.

if you choose to make ad hominem attacks on our staff and in particular one person that is working very hard to bring harmony to this industry, it makes us, or at least to me, not really values the rest of what you say. if you have an argument on the merits, make it on the merits. with that, i want to say thanks to our consultant and to the folks from square that have educated me on things that i did not understand today. finally, i am not sure we need more studies. my view is that the credit-card option for customers is clearly a good thing. it is a good thing for driver and customer safety. it is a good thing by virtue of more options to customers, and i was interested to see that the data shows that tipping is increasing as he suggests over

the whole, not on an incremental basis, which, interestingly enough, if we open up this competition, may be the amount of the fee at the end of the day or something close to its. a think we need to work on a uniform technology that facilitate this. i think the customer preference is there and i don't think we need to study it further. the fact that more and more people are paying by credit card shows this and i think it is inherent. customers want the option to pay by credit card. to me, the main point out of the study and going forward is, can we use a competitive bid process to address the main issues that we have been confronting, any way to bring that feed on the driver's down, and any way to better the experience for the customer, giving them more choices to turn

down the brightness or the volume. it seems to make sense to proceed with this competitive process that takes into account all of the comments of the staff has gotten, focusing particularly on those in an effort to see if competition will get us a better rate for the drivers and a better option for the customers. it is no accident and there is a credit-card option in the other cities. that is my view on where we go. >> let me start by saying that it is very obvious to me that sooner or later, we are going to be a cashless society. we are not going to use cash to pay things anymore. for that to happen, i am not

advocating it. the issue of credit cards and charging that 5%, it is too much. i think they should be brought down to 2.5% or at best, 3%. i think people should enjoy their rides. the enjoyment of the taxi ride, the reason i get in a taxi in the first place is the want to get from point a to point b. and the taxi to get there quickly. i use taxis regularly every week.

most of the time, i'd pay cash or use my credit card. it is a way of traveling. as we have taxi's under our purview. holly have to do homework to know what we're doing when we regulate the taxi industry. i just want to devote all my colleagues will take the time to visit the taxi companies, see what they do, and experience what is to be in the room. that is where the orders are given to these guys. director bridges: i, too, in eva

and in taking some taxis, one of the things i did was take several taxis to see how people use the system, and i will say that i, too, like the updates in the back seat. it was great. but i think the 5% at this point is steep. i think we should evaluate that. i am not sure what the breaking point is. maybe they should come back to us. i think having 5% at this point is a little steep, considering where we are in the whole industry. i, too, agree that we do not have to be the same as new york or another city. san francisco is a pilots city, just like new york. b. other thing i want to say is that looking at the mechanism,

whether it be the system that we currently have in the back seat or some of the other devices, i think given the date and time of the day, most systems are safe. customer service is a key point here. that is what we are providing, great customer service. i think we should evaluate how we would get the best customer service. we can come back with that recommendation, as well, but i do support that steady, and in terms of using debit cards and credit cards, it is a way of the future, and i think we should do it. that is important. chairman nolan: thank you. director lee? director lee: