they have informed us that they will be enforced. president goh: how much has to go to each of these individual agencies? >> and the new global food program, for the applicant, they would apply to us for not only the dpw permit, but the fire department to continue that process. it will approve specifically. it is required for the facility, and they have a tax certificate.

president goh: that includes the certificate of sanitation? so we should have had on hand tonight? what idea and the financial district is already saturated and is not in the of the vitality for the culture, the vital culture? >> i can't speak from the department perspective, but the first appellant stated that there are 30 some odd restaurants. chipotle will be operating in a very short time. i am not certain in this case whether, in this specific case,

there are 32 restaurants and chipotle that would create a situation. it doesn't appear that there would be an issue as it relates to competition. >> it was suggested that there are limited numbers of food dollars in any given day. >> in many cases, we approve certain permits because one of the arguments was financial losses. again, it is currently no information or no study from a municipality that we know of. we have a meeting with the representative from the city of portland. even they did not have the

study. where money is being transferred for food, and these specific cases. there are more facilities operating in front of city hall. the business appears to be doing well. these eateries, they did not appear to be losing any business at this point. at least not from a cursory review. president goh: the observations seems to me to beg the question. we don't have very many options

right across the street, but in the financial district, there are many options on any given block. >> the department to recognize that. and we review when applicants apply for areas that are congested. we would make certain recommendations as to the possibility and whether the department will support the application. in many cases, it cannot reject or deny an application. >> and it has like food, we have seen the pictures in the menus. would that change the outcome? >> my understanding was that it

was not present during the directors hearing. given that information, it could be -- at the hearing officer may continue to recommend moving at a minimum of 200 feet away from this location. president goh: thank you. commissioner garcia: mr. kwan, do you have dp order 71944, article 5.8 of the public code in front of you, sir? >> yes, sir. commissioner garcia: there's an i -- it would be page four, i- 2.

the language is on page 5. and you think there is a distinction to be drawn between like food and similar service? >> there has been a historical argument throughout the various cities that we discussed as it relates to food. commissioner garcia: i want to know whether or not the concept of like food -- also it talks about the fact that it is a similar type of food product. i am asking you if you think that is in counter distinction of like food.

is that one concept? >> it is 1 in the same as the with the department interprets its. commissioner garcia: the sentence is written that the interpretation that one ought to give is that someone is selling food to go, it is a similar type of operation. it seems as though they try to encompass both concepts theory it seems to me as though the idea that these are operations where the food is to go, it would be in direct competition. >> i would agree that the wording and the phrasing could have been better written in the order itself as part of the

guidelines. the department will lead to a knowledge of the mobile food facilities. the food trucks and carts are by very nature -- you buy it and move forward. if the suggestion is that it is convenience food, you will be eliminating overall by that very definition, for example, if there is a 7-eleven that serves packaged sandwiches, that is convenience foods. it will then be deemed to direct competition. commissioner garcia: and may be reasonably so. >> it would be an incredibly difficult as the legislation is set up for anyone.

commissioner garcia: i guess at what be easier, for our job, and i mean this very respectfully, if we had seen the hearing officer's report and we gotten something greater than the vitality of the neighborhood. it seems as though a big part of this has to do with the effect negatively and positively on these. we will deal with that ultimately when the commissioners have their discussions, were each and every point, at least the major points that came out, having to do with the location. the problem is probably not with legislation as it is with where the trucks will be located.

were some of these points discussed? for all that was ever written was the findings? >> i will have to go back and check with the hearing officer. commissioner garcia: it might be hidden away somewhere? >> ha it might possibly be. president goh: any other questions, commissioners? we'll begin to take public comment. can i see a show of hands of people that are interested in speaking. great. commissioner garcia: i see one individual with a hand up that is an appellant. >> appellants are not able to speak under public comment and

representatives are not entitled to speak under public comment. your time was given during the first half of the proceedings and there will be three minutes of rebuttal. let me see the show of hands again. commissioner garcia: the man in the back again -- >> mr. isaacs, you can't speak during public comment. you cans peak during -- can speak during rebuttal. president goh: we are going to take public comment in a minute. that we are trying to make an assessment for how long. >> we will give two minutes to each person. i would like to invite the director of the small business commission to speak first. president goh: absolutely.

>> regina, director of the office of the small business commission. our office was involved in creating the new regulations for the mobile food, so i will be here to make myself available and i have been monitoring the permit process and the hearings. i have written a letter to you and it should be in your package recommending that the board of holvis the recommendations for these permits -- the board upholds the recommendations for these permits. many of the comments that you heard any concerns from the appellants that we have heard in other hearings fall in a policy matter as it relates to how the

program is structured and is not so much how dpw is interpreting the regulations. because of this, supervisor wiener has convened a couple of meetings and we have put together a task force made up of my office, his office, golden gate restaurant association, mat cohen and la cocina. i want to let you know that high a lifted out some of the areas that we are addressing. here are improvements that can be made to the program. since the program is new, these are new permits and should not have a bearing on the issuing.

and with that, i will leave it at that. president goh: i have some questions about the letter. the paragraph you wrote about noticing and how applicants are going for full days when they want to-four hours, that affects the noticed. -- want 2-4 hours, that affects the notice. >> it causes great alarm and we are seeing this and many of the permits. because of the noticing requirements, they are fairly cumbersome and not necessarily knowing because the program is new, just exactly what will be issued, they are noticing that they would like this particular location and i will notice a full window of hours knowing that it will be scaled down because they may not know at

that particular time, if there were other trucks that applied for a permit in that particular location. the notice things that are going out are noticing multiple days, long hours of operation. it was expressed in the hearings as a concern for many businesses and property owners. i think one of the commitments -- and how can we help the applicant to narrow down what they are asking for so that when the notices go down, and they are reflective of what the permit is requesting. i would say that as more of a flaw in the system as opposed to

how the regulation is written right now. president goh: could you also talked about the zoning modification and the financial districts? >> as the legislation was written, in terms of where the permits are currently allowed to operate, it is -- do you happen to have a map? it is targeting commercial areas. things we have seen where trucks have been interested in operating but are not available, that is around hospitals, medical institutions, city college, and those are surrounded by residential areas. currently, they are not allowed to operate and issue a permit. also, at the time that the legislation was written,

supervisor dufty agreed with the school board not to allow mobile foods within 1,500 feet of a middle, jr., or high school. from 7-5 monday-friday. it has also resulted in significant areas, commercial areas that trucks are not allowed to get permits monday- friday. what we are going to be opening up the areas around hospitals, the higher educational institution that we are drafting the legislation for that now. we need to have a new discussion with the school district. president goh: i imagine that will be interesting. your letter, when you talk

about the zoning modifications, you say that those areas the you just name, they should take some of the pressure off of the downtown financial districts. that is something that i don't quite understand. if you bring services into areas that are needed, it doesn't -- the way this is worded is that there is some finite number of mobile food trucks met you want to get out. >> i don't think the program was designed to specifically say that mobile foods was only to be in areas where it is needed. it was not designed from that

perspective. what we see, because of a pretty narrow area of the city, that is where applications are going. >>it is hard to see but there we the circular areas where the mobile food trucks were not allowed to operate during monday-friday, 7:00-5:00 during the school district areas. that is a large part of mission streets. this is the area in the financial district south of market where a great number of the first permit applicants applied for their permits.

as you can see -- where sf state is, city college, ucsf, the hospitals, st. mary's, they are in residential areas. it is hard for me to pinpoint it out on this map. president goh: i understand your point. thank you and. vice president garcia: when i read your letter, i was struck by the 1,500 feet radius and no consideration given to whether the school had an encampment. do you know what the radius has to be for an mcd? food is far more dangerous to kids than drugs. [laughter]

>> that is one of the reasons by the working group is interested in re-reviewing this. >> thank you for your patience. go ahead and myriad >> thank you for your time to be here. i am ken cleveland with the building and managers association. i am disappointed to see the small business executives here tonight to side with one set of small businesses against another set of small businesses. i am here supporting the appellants. there are tenants in office buildings and as has since stated earlier tonight, they employ a lot of people, they have been here for many years. and they enhance the value of the properties in the city that are paying about 20% of the entire city's budget. we have to look at the big impact here. i have to disagree with mr. paul who stated that boma was at the

table. when this was passed unanimously, they were not involved. this was to bring vitality to underserved areas of the city where there are not restaurants, cafes, sandwich shops. we have a plethora of them downtown. we are not underserved in any sense of the word. if you look at the list of firms that have been applied for, over 50% of them are downtown locations. why? that is where the customers are. we had these constraints around the city of not being allowed, not allowing mobile food trucks to operate in hospitals or near hospitals and schools. that needs to be changed. we need to make some modifications to look at density. how many are too many? right now, we are saturated downtown with mobile food permits. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker please.

>> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. i am the owner of the gaylord restaurant in the financial district. my restaurant is within a short distance from the subjected location. i have operated this restaurant for about 30 years and i have faced all of the economic challenges over the years. i offer an extensive take-out menu. along with a full line of buffet lunch. i serve the same items as proposed by the applicant, an

assortment of indian cuisine. i pay $12,500 in rent and employ about 15 people. employees are fully dependent and so is my family and this business. it is the only source of my income. if this permit is issued, it will directly negatively impact on my business. i ask why this injustice is done to the financial district restaurants by permitting them to operate at a fraction of my overheads. and yet, they have total freedom to steal the customers. my sales are down 26%. compared to last year. i thank you so much for listening to me.

>> thank you. next speaker. >> hi, my name is deborah sellers. i am the owner of seller's market. i operate multi-unit operations in the downtown financial district. what i want to speak about is the fact that, as of 30 days ago, we had a board meeting and we were discussing an expansion plans to expand fresco minister of the financial district. we have located three or four locations that are on the docket for 2012. each one of those locations have available parking spots where permits are being requested. the question that we have is how

do we assess their market value and what kind of business we can do their when somebody can pull up another quick service restaurants in front of us? what we have decided to do is look outside of the city at this time. we do not feel that the legislation is there yet. in order for us to understand what market value is in the marketplace in san francisco. in doing so, where we could have employed 40 or 50 falls had additional revenues come in those locations, we are going to look outside the city for expansion because there is not enough legislation and rules surrounding this in over populated areas. the mobile food trucks, the entire intent, as i understand from the golden gate restaurant association, the intent was to have mobile food trucks in

underserved areas. the downtown and financial district, all of my business would not be done in 1.5 hours each day if we were killing it right now. less than 10 hours a week is when we make all of our money. there would be lines out of the door for four or five hours if the area was under certification. that is not happening for anybody. we are all in survival mode right now. i want to emphasize to you that there is an impact. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker please. >> hello. my name is matt cohen. i am coming to add a little bit of context. i was involved in the legislative process from the beginning all the way to now in

implementation. the golden gate restaurant association was also involved in this and the type of food was always described as an ethnic food type rather than a service place. it was never discussed in the legislative process about service type. that was not the intent of the like food conversation going through the legislative process, as well as density, location, and financial district. the composition was there was always a limitation for any neighborhood other than the restrictions and zoning as well as restrictions around schools. to add to the context of how the legislation was created, i would say that it was always known that food trucks would be permitted in the financial district, soma, other highly dense areas. other people involved in the process, from the board of

supervisors all the way down, understood that when they enacted the legislation. thank you. >> any other public comment? seeing none, we will start rebuttal and we will start with the first appellant. >> on behalf of 50 california, we have heard a lot of discussion in the last few minutes about legislative intent. we all have lawyers and people interested in policy and could spend a lot of time on that. what is critical about this legislation is location, location, location. is it fair to brick-and-mortar businesses? it would be hard to say that the board of supervisors intended for brick-and-mortar businesses to take a backseat to mobile food trucks. it is weighing the factors and weighing the benefits and arms.