in your argument. it is fine to have footage of a tree limb falling and taking another one down and we fear for the safety of our children. i think you could also find if a video camera in the amount -- and the amount of traffic that comes down franklin or packs of students from that school, if they come down, you would find as much danger to the children as you would perhaps a non- negligent assessment, a negligent assessment on a healthy tree. these are majestic trees. there is a fire station directly across the street from the school. it mitigates noise. it cleans the air. there have been no epa with assessments that i am aware of in the neighborhood. we continue to base our claims

on bought assessments and we're losing our trees. carla tells me the root stump grinder that is responsible for at least five trees that have been cut recently from the ficus, the grand fifis in our neighborhood, there remains stumps, there remained dangers, that machine is in repair. we have no way currently for any future cut trees are the ones that are cut to remove those to plant or re-plant if you do decide. thank you. commissioner hwang: thank you. next speaker, please. >> i live directly across the

school and i have lived there for 16 years. i am here industries mean a tremendous amount to me. it is my birthday and i came here anyway. this canopies are gorgeous, those are healthy, beautiful trees and something i want to mention is that day in june was one of those rare thunder and lightning days. i was home doing computer work and i was blown away. i heard loud thunder and saul lightning flashes. i grew up in the east coast with a lot of lightning and thunder all the time throughout the summer months. i assure you that when you hear thunder there is also most likely lightning going on. there was -- to say there was no lightning when there was the loud crashes of thunder going on, you saw in the video, someone's reaction was that had to be lightning. a branch coming down with that kind of violence. that was not rain.

i heard that crash. it was like god's wrath coming down. i looked out my window. it was lightning. i assure you. i am here because i love those trees. the make a huge difference in my life. and that street will be decimated. it will be like -- a dried desolate desert of concrete and ugliness. it is going to be disheartening to me to walk outside my apartment every day. commissioner hwang: thank you. next speaker, please. >> i also live across the street from the trees. all the trees on our side of the street, the big ficus trees have been cut down. all that is last -- left are the ones on the side of the school. i just find it strange that

trees are considered a hazard. when there is so much traffic there, it is insane. it is one of the worst places to be a pedestrian and a lot of that is the parents dropping their kids off and picking them up from the school. once you cut these trees down, that is it. they're gone. you can put up what they put up in the past, these little spindly trees. there architectural model trees. i do not know where the birds are going to go but whatever. yeah, i feel like they have been cutting trees left and right around that area and it is not just the school. these are the schools trees. the other stuff has been dpw. these trees, it is the school that wants to cut them down. i just don't buy their argument

to cut them down. thank you. commissioner hwang: thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening. i also occupy a unit across the street from these beautiful trees. we have some of coincidences' that have been influencing the judgment of a lot of professionals here. i do understand that given the proximity of children that these concerns are taken very seriously but if we look at the pattern that has been identified, the pattern of lamb failure -- limb failure, the pattern is based on the diseased tree, which had been

belatedly noticed by the school and before the city got a chance to remove the tree. there was a catastrophic limb failure and it was the weather related limb failure. there are many trees where there are high traffic areas. we're not selling because they are ficus trees all ficus tree should come down. we have testimony these are stable root systems because they are tolerant to pruning. we have a record that is full of the specific instances that caused these two failures. we have three other thriving trees that are the last trees remaining on oak street. i do not know if you are aware. this were the california department of transportation building used to be. when people are tongue-in-cheek

saying it is ugly, it is a utilitarian building that the school graciously painted in some colors. respectfully, i believe that in the future, if there is more evidence after watching these things carefully, they should be attended to but now i do not think we have that time. thank you. commissioner hwang: thank you. next speaker, please. >> i also live at 179 oak, the only residential unit on the block. i believe mr. klingerville has overstated his case. it was one tree and it was identified as jamie just said. taking these trees down will take down all the big trees. the ones they put up in place

are little spindly things. we already lost all the large trees on our side of the block. we lost several when they build the auditorium which they had to do because of the construction. i understand that. but the one that is the biggest bone of contention is the one that has been referred to as tree no. 5 on the corner. that does not overhang of playground. that overhangs some picnic tables and let's face it, kids are not going to be out there in the rain eating their lunch. there will be downstairs in the cafeteria. the concerns expressed by the school are a little overstated. that is all i would say. i would also say that like others have said, all trees are subject to failure. i parked my car underneath those trees. i am willing to take the risk. >> thank you.

next speaker. >> hello. i live across the strait -- street. i have lived there for 35 years and have been emotionally attached to those trees for a long time. they change the whole atmosphere of the area. as someone mentioned, the fire department is on the corner. they go the wrong way on the street with every light and bell and siren going. it makes a tremendous difference with a big tree canopy. there are going to destroy -- make that street look like baghdad. they constructed these cement walls and they have huge steel fences. it was -- it has been a

beautiful block. they can still be a beautiful block. we have to protect the beautiful, huge trees. i realize there is some distant danger. there is a much greater danger to these children being in an environment that is ugly, burkle, that is cement, steel, and not leafy and green and beautiful. and san francisco is a beautiful city. it has become an ugly city. it is because of the destruction of what is here. again, i do not in any way except the idea that we can replace these beautiful large, well grown beautiful trees with these ready little sticks they stick in the ground. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker.

>> i wanted to tell you, please do not cut down our trees. thank you. >> if you would fill out a speaker card, that would help with our minutes. any other public comment? seeing none, we will move into rebuttal. you have three minutes. >> i have been living on a hoekstra for more than 30 years

since 1979. i want to be fair. i want everybody's interest to be represented in a way that makes sense so we can all use of street. however, i do not think the school is being a good neighbor in this instance. i think that they are rich and they want what they want. with money you can buy stuff. for me, i have a limited amount of money. there'll be other trees even if you cut these down. that is about it. >> thank you. the schools recognize the attachment that many people have to these trees. we like to have the trees as well. they shield the school from

sound and traffic. they are nice to have. but all of that taken into consideration, for us, the risks to life and safety is simply unacceptable. with the determination that these trees are imminent hazard, the risk to us of a child getting hurt is clearly unacceptable. the prospect of catastrophic liability to us if we allow our children in an area where they could be endangered by these trees is unacceptable. i would think that the city also has some concern about liability for these trees since this matter has been brought before the city for its review. nobody is in favor of simply removing trees for the sake of removing trees. we do intend, of course, to replace these trees so that there are trees in the neighborhood.

the removal of trees in the neighborhood in general that many speakers have spoken to is something that should be considered. why is that those trees have been removed? they're likely was a good reason in each of those cases. collectively, it is unfortunate we have three more before us but each of these cases needs to be looked at on its own merits. the schools look to you for guidance on how to deal with this. thank you for considering. president goh: the tree we saw on the video, had that been hit by a truck? >> one of the people indicated it had been hit and they called the school. that may be the case. i was not made aware of a telephone call on that matter. >> you have it on video? >> it is not on the video i captured for purposes of archiving. the data from that date range is

no longer on the system. i would also add -- president goh: what date range? >> last june. we cannot record that much did it. we have staff members in our lobby which overlooks the courtyard and we have staff members who saw the tree falling because they heard it starting to crack and groan. they did not report any lightning. nor was there any loud thunder that was reported to me from people who were in close proximity to that location. >>president goh: what about any black and -- blackened limbs? >> i will ask.

president goh: we did hear from ms. short who indicated limb failure as a concern, more of a concern from her standpoint than the root trimming. i am looking at a photograph of the view of the close to launch- recess area. i am wondering if the school considered the cutting of those limbs there, the ones that would overhang into the yard area. did you consider that as a viable alternative? >> that would be one thing to do. i think the concern for us and in particular with regard to that tree is the assessment that the tree in its totality could fail at the rear -- root. if that were to occur, the

direction of fall would be into the area that has picnic tables and used for our kids for a luncheon recess. i do not think that trimming the the limbs on that tree would address the issue. president goh: is that in your submission, the movement, if you were to simply cut the limbs and the direction of the routes based on how their work cut would suggest -- >> i did not address that. president goh: where did you get that from? >> that is my thought now. based on the question of removing limbs on the sidewalk side. if that were to be contemplated the issue still is if the tree

is not stable because of the cuts being on the curbside, the most likely direction would be away from the curb and towards our property. >> hour or burst is standing up. i would like to hear about that theory. -- our arborist is standing up. >> the issue as characterized by daniel relating to read kaeding and those trees falling away from the cuts, that is the pattern of operating failures we see when they occur. -- root cuts occur. the leverage is offset by the roots opposite the direction of the fall. there is a -- the roots towards the curb and under the street would have been a counterbalance to the forces that would cause

the tree to fall. directly into the playground and lounge area. directly onto the school property. that is how trees would fail. >> thank you. >> that is typical of all trees, not this particular trade. -- tree. >> you have three minutes. >> i have a question. looking at the pictures of the failed trade -- tree, does it appear in has been hit by lightning? >> we did not see any evidence it was hit by lightning.

sometimes, there is clear evidence when atreus hit by lightning but i am not sure there is always clear evidence if a tree is hit by lightning. we did not see anything but i would not assume that did not occur. >> there is nothing in the photograph? >> there's nothing in the photograph. what we would see that might indicate lightning had struck would be some jarring -- charring on the tree where it was hit. sometimes there is flames. >> the photograph three from the end of the set of photographs before it -- photographs before the report. it can see one of the place -- you can see one of the play structures and the tape. does that look like charring?

>> it does not. it looks like a fungal disease that we see or even just some sooty mold. it is fungus on ficus trees and it presents like soot. where we would see the charring is at that point of impact which is to be aware of when it occurs. again, just because we do not see that evidence does not mean that there is no evidence or did not occur. >> thank you. >> let me try to get this clear. it occurred to me i am confused. the first thing that happened was the department went and looked at the trees and recommended they not be allowed to be cut down. is that the first step?

>> the first step was that we identified one tree for removal. it was protested and during the protest, because -- it had been approved at a hearing. that tree then failed. >> it had been slated for removal? >> that is right. the school requested we take another look at the tree which we dead -- we did. before this june failure we looked and we did not identify that history presented a hazard at that time. with the recognition there is always some risk. it subsequently failed. we were asked by the school to look at it again which we did. and still felt that our initial assessment, there are occasional failures that are not

predictable. and with the understanding that the structure is not ideal. we looked again and we still felt that some pruning was warranted. >> i wanted the bare facts about what happened. the tree fails and you reassess and this is a different arborist or is it you? >> the two of us went together. >> you recommend that the trees not be allowed to be cut down. >> we recommended pruning. the school opted to apply to remove the trees. we were inspecting them at the request of the school. when we did not determine they met our criteria, the report -- applied for removal. we formally applied -- denied there approval and may apply. >> you gave your testimony and

the other arborist gave his testimony? >> we don't send two people. >> you gave your testimony before the hearing at dpw. >> yes. >> their decision was to ask to have the trees are removed. >> to grant three of the four for removal. >> have you come around to where you totally agree? there is a reason i am asking, not to put you on the spot but i wanted to make a point. >> i understand where that decision was made. there is a lot of risk. in this case. i certainly agree that there is greater risk for a traffic accident, far greater. injuries due to a tree failures are very small. especially compared to traffic accidents. so, i do not know that answers

your question. >> how often is it the case that the department reverses the decision or the position of its own arborist? >> i do not have a percentage for you. >> hasn't happened to you? >> it has. it has happened in the reverse direction where we have recommended removal and the department determined we need to implement more rigorous monitoring. and keep the trees. >> the person that overturned it, is that a single person? >> that is right. there is one hearing officer. >> what is the training of that individual? are they themselves and are breast? was this based on risc or -- risk or expertise on things having to do with trees? >> they rely on the department arborist. we present the data.

i was out with chris for two of the three business. the hearing officer will frequently seek our opinions. they will also listen to outside our breasts -- arborists. while i initially assessed that much of the risk could be mitigated through pruning, not all could, and i recognize these larger limbs that shed our concern. there was some equivocation on our part just in terms of -- i feel the limb failure is the greater risk. not the route failure. -- root failure. >> thank you. >> commissioners, the matter is

submitted. who is starting? >> it was not fair of me to put her on the spot. i was trying to assess her feelings about this. if anyone has watched the board of appeals, i can remember how long she's been coming before us. how many years? seven years. i would just, grabbing a figure out of the year, she has opposed cutting down trees 95% of the time. it is rare that she wants to have trees cut down. some people were emotional in their appeal, in their statements about the trees and

that is understandable. i would have you know that the matter how much you love them, i would guarantee ms. shaw loves them also. this is a considered opinion. based upon basically two things in my opinion. one of them having to do with the fact that there is great potential, or there is potential, i do not want to say great. a potential for limb failure and that is a life safety issue. even though it might be more dangerous to be in traffic, i personally, when the department which it is rarely, recommends the trees be removed, for us to go against that and for some pedestrian, someone walking by their to be heard, is not a risk i want to take. as for the tillman that spoke about being comfortable about parking his car under the tree,

i have a grove of eucalyptus trees and when the wind is howling, and it is raining heavily, i park nowhere near those trees. it is a question of time before one of them comes down. it or easily. i intend to uphold. -- it worries me. i intend to uphold. >> in the seven years that she has been here, we have disagreed the most on this particular commission. it is not necessarily related to what we love or what we think should be. the issue i have always had is it is more from the point of view that i think there are