of the commission and us as commissioners. at the same time, i would like to -- my concern is going too fast on this. and i would be more conservative rather than changing the rules at this point. and i see that for a couple of reasons. one is we're working off -- this would not only decrease the meetings per year, by the 11 months because we do not need the last month. if we take all the other months and reduce it by one meeting, that is 11 meetings of. there is a fifth week four times a year. we're taking away four more wednesday's out of the year. that is roughly 15 meetings.

this year, fourth of july falls on a wednesday as well. that is 60 meetings. if we go ahead with this kind of change we're talking about taking 16 meetings out of the year of 2011. there is that consideration there. the other thing is, the resolution that is to follow is to get our arms around what exactly is the commission doing on each week or each time we meet that is mandated by the charter, by the administrative code, by resolutions of the commission and so on and so forth. until we map that out in the calendar, which is behind the resolution as well, we do not have -- i do not have a good sense right now as to what each

of our meetings really look like if we are doing what we're supposed to be doing. part of that resolution is to look at everything that is on the books and try to get our arms around it and whittle it back if we do not need it. there's a lot aside from the charter and the administrative code. do we need these reports? how frequently do we need them? and work from that perspective in terms of the number of meetings we have. the third comment is we take what we are mandated to do and on top of that, we put on other policy and discipline matters that come up. or that simply come out. a lot of stuff comes up. are we going to be meeting twice a month here until 10 and 11 pm vs getting out at 7:30 p.m.?

that is something to weigh. i would rather meet more frequently and get out earlier. there many things i would like to do. i lean toward more meetings but last amount of time then very long meetings. and the additional consideration that i am throwing out, as the rule changes proposed, it is saying holding a community meeting every fourth wednesday. i am all for that. it is a terrific idea. every month be out in the community. on the other hand, over the year and a half i have been on the commission and then try to get that on our calendar, i have come to understand that community meetings are at an additional considerable cost and

the considerable additional amount of time in terms of staffing to pull them off. that is one reason why we have not been having more community meetings and we have been having less. if there are reasons that, that do not get us out into the community every fourth wednesday, does that mean we do not meet at all? does that mean we will be here on the fourth wednesday if we do not have that community meeting? i would -- i like the idea of the community meeting every fourth wednesday. i am not sure would write it into the rules. i might retain flexibility. my preference would be to say let's move into this slowly to

take five meetings off of 2011 which is the four months that we have five wednesday's to take off the fifth week meetings and of course we will have the fourth of july off. let's not change the rules right now and let's just take a quarter of each year and figure out the number of meetings we're going to have for that quarter and see whether we need two or three and see how many community meetings we can actually get scheduled. commissioner chan: i appreciate you laying out these concerns and i agree with you on almost all of them. i did get worried. i expressed my concern. we were moving to reduce the number of meetings. it is a bit quick to change roles in order to do this.

we often cancel meetings -- we have done it every two months or so. because of a lack of quorum. we do not need to change our rules to do that, it happens. we can ease into this by rewarding ourselves for reducing the number of our cases, by taking off that fifth wednesday of the month. that is 5, it would result in four less meetings including the fourth of july this coming year which would save us some money. i worry that -- and believe strongly in our civilian oversight body. i believe the voters have repeatedly bested quite a bit of responsibility in this commission. the board of supervisors and so has the mayor for us to do quite a bit of work. we're the only body that sets policy for the department in our dgo and handles matters beyond

10 days suspension. we have to deal with issues like occupy and other emergency issues. we can barely read our minds around everything the department has to grapple with. we can provide a lot more support and oversight to the department and the occ and provide access to the public. in terms of attendance, it has dwindled. you have a few of the usual suspects but besides that you do not have a ton of community members coming at a variety. there's a lot more work for us to do on the policy end. we have great work with disciplinary but there is much more we can do in terms of being a strong body that is accessible and represents the interest of the community. i do nothing changing our rules to cut the number of meetings is the right thing to do. i would support the suggestion of cutting the fifth wednesday.

because we have not been great about doing them every fourth wednesday, i would not mind us making that stronger and holding ourselves more accountable to that. i think we need to take that sentence in addition. we should do something to hold ourselves accountable even though it might cost more money and take more time. those are the most important meetings. >> with reference to that effect wednesday, we generally lives, there's five of them -- four of them. we list two, november and december. we never made on this week's. technically we have eliminated those. commissioner slaughter: i would like to respond.

a few for responses. we're one of the few commissions that meets every week. we do not need to meet every week. if we are efficient we can get our work done. the fire commission has an importer responsibility to get it done twice a month. we're talking about attendance below. it is not because we have too few meetings. not because we meet to often. people have access to us, people have access. having more meetings is not going to necessarily increase attendance. talking about eliminating 16 meetings a year, respectively, that is not a real number. we cancel our meetings regularly because the agendas are not flore we do not have corms. the idea that we are not meeting regularly is not taking into account how we operate, how we

operate over the past year-and- a-half. the key sentence is not changing. this allows us the flexibility to recognizes the reality of how we have operated in the path and -- past and recognizes the reality of our decreasing caseload and commissioner kingsley, the idea of meeting more often for shorter meetings rather than less often for logger, i have the opposite reaction. i have responsibility outside of this hearing space and have tremendous amounts of travel related and this makes it -- it would be better if i knew, this is the time i have to come. i can organize my professional

business travel in such a way as to not have to miss meetings. i had to miss meetings last year because of that. this is -- i am concerned it is being treated as a massive change. i do not think it is that big of a change. it reflects a responsible oversight over this department. we can and should be more efficient in our meetings with the idea that we will be losing in fact a large number of meetings, i do not buy it. we retain flexibility to add these if we need to. we're saying we have a lot of people who support us who are planning and let's set some expectations. this is what the expectations will be going forward. we can more than meet our obligations for oversight and discipline based on the schedule.

that is where i come down and i believe this is this way. i would love to hear your thoughts. vice president marshall: i would like to actually add more meetings. no. just like -- will have -- someone said we should meet every wednesday. we have been doing it for eight years. we're always going to find something to put in the agenda. i have never seen us not do that. i would like to try this. i would like to try it and see if we can do it. if we cannot we go back to it. the arguments that the sky will fall, i do not agree with. i would like to try it and see. that is my short speech. commissioner terman: a couple

thoughts. on the wording. i would like to hear from the commission secretary. is it feasible for to schedule a community meeting on the fourth wednesday of each month? i know there is a lot of time and a lot of activity that goes into putting together a community meeting. if we're going to have a bylaw or rule that says that is what we will do every wednesday, i want to know. is that something we can do every fourth wednesday? >> typically we can. we adopt a schedule of meetings going forward and we're able to have enough lead time to work with a captain of the district or neighborhood where we're going to me. we have time to find a location and the logistics' and we have to notice of meeting like that 15 days in advance.

we did it successfully. >> occasionally something unforeseen would come up and we would have to cancel. not because of a thing happened on the commission and. >> it is feasible and we can do it. i am thinking there is a lot of work that we do need to do. policy wise and developmentally for the department and the sec. for instance, i plan on being at the occ on friday. i was out a meeting today. last week i held two days of hearings at the department. this is how i come down on this.

i vote that -- i agree and disagree. there is a lot of work to be done. i do not see a sticking out that third wednesday -- second wednesday. that is an opportunity to do a lot more work. i think we need to have some structure and some rules around that. i want us to do that work. they do not have to be written into the roles but there is a lot of work supposed to be done and i plan on doing it. as the newest commissioner, maybe i am still giddy with excitement. it is probably the most fulfilling of the city royals have -- roles i have gone to play. i am excited to have the opportunity to do it. i do want to engage the community more. as president mazzucco can tell

you, i e-mail all the time about meeting with different groups and different subjects. i will use that time here or use it elsewhere. i say, maybe it is a personal obligation that others have to take on. i am willing to try this. we tried for six months and come back and revisit the question. in that six months, we need to come back and talk torso's realistically about what we have been doing their without second wednesday of the month. have we been making -- it is about time that -- there is a tremendous amount of responsibility in on this commission. i want to see that. i know we all have different levels of motivation and

schedule and the things we need to get accomplished trade and need to do some good things for the city. i will support this for a limited time. i want to see us do more. i do not want to see us cut back on things. that is how come down. president mazzucco: the role as it is stated says as determined by the commission. the compromise perhaps is to say rather than adopt these changes formally tonight, let's proceed with a trowel period for -- trial period. and say we have eliminated the second wednesday and we can see how well we got up to speed doing our community meetings and see if we feel like we fell behind or did not fall behind in our work. we can do that without formally

amending the rules but say, we will do it as a trowel and come back. i think that is a reasonable suggestion. >> i do not necessarily say we have to amend the rules. that was on my -- my approach. the proposals that we're about to consider that can make is more efficient. part of the reason that commissioner kingsley and i [unintelligible] wanted to find out where they overlap was, what we could do to assist the occ and the department on cutting back on certain responsibilities of resources and time could be devoted elsewhere. the same works here as well. that is where i come out on this. >> part of the difficulty here is whether we are ahead or

behind is a subjective thing for each commissioner. that is what makes it different. i want to try it. again, you can do is much work is you want. you can have more meetings. we could be there every wednesday and thursday. i would like to try and see, i would like to try something else. that is my point here. we will never know unless you try. ma>> i'm not quite sure the best way to do this. maybe we do not need a motion but maybe we can -- if you want to vote, we can take a look. i would move that we try this

new schedule and revisit and reassess in june or july to see how it plays out. president mazzucco: we should do this -- might take on this is like commissioner determined, i love being on the police commission. i could do this five nights a week. i am sure the chief would not want to be here. they probably do it five nights a week. the reality is i see from being on the commission now for four years sometimes you do things that are redundant. things that are a bit of a waste of time. the hallmarks of the commission is community involvement. i think it is worth as giving it a shot for the next five months to eliminate the second wednesday. if there is something that comes

up we will call a meeting and do it. i think it is a great proposal. i do not think we need to vote on it. we could have a consensus at this point. >> the action would be to continue since it is an action item. president mazzucco: we will let the public know. we will not me on the second wednesday -- to meet on the second wednesday of the month. >> i hope i have been clear. i do not think we should reduce the number. it seems like i am -- if we were to take a but we would get four. if we do this and things, because this department does handle a lot. i might ask for meeting and i would hope if i ask for what it would be taken seriously. it will not be a battle. >> absolutely. that is only right. there's a commissioner that

works seven days a week my id is you. commissioner kingsley: i would like to thank you for bringing this discussion to us and our having that discussion is worthwhile. i am on board for a look see at it to see how it will work before we dive into formalizing it. >> ok. >> if there was a desire to meet for some reason on the second wednesday, we would need to notice that for a meeting. some two hours in advance. i am sure everyone is aware. we could not decide on monday to meet on wednesday. >> it would have to be on friday. >> technically it would have to be before 5:00 p.m. sunday

afternoon but since those are not business days, friday is a better alternative. >> there are a couple of fifth wednesdays and a couple of ones. >> i want to ask briefly, how you feel about this? >> we serve at the pleasure of the commission. i am happy to abide by the commission's decision. >> thank you for the birthday gift. i am disappointed if you began to implement it in korea i will not be able to spend my birthday with you. >> we can delay if you prefer. >> there are times we have not been able to even though we wanted to have a community meeting. we have met anyway.

it does not mean we will not meet at all. there is still a possibility of saying we will meet anyway. >> if we do not meet in the community, we will be meeting here? >> we have done that in the past. >> in terms of our trial -- >> i want to be sure because of the language. >> i realize on that last issue, maybe i should leave well enough alone because we're making progress. we could be so much more efficient. there is -- we have a solemn oversight responsibility. we are the effective board of directors of this commission. we have policy responsibilities

as a board of directors of a profit or a non-profit company would have. we have additional responsibilities that four members do not have. we can do this job in two meetings a month. i am confident. yanda responsibly and well. i think it increases the likelihood we have greater attendance because our meetings are not diluted but they are thoughtfully prepared and agendaized and we will not end up cancelling because we have more. i am fine with us not meeting on the wednesdays when a community meeting, if a community meeting cannot be arranged. i hear the sense that people want to continue to meet on this wednesday's and that is fine. i will support that for the next five or six months. we can do this job and do well

and responsibly toward a month. -- twice a month. and we have a very important and solemn responsibility with respect to public safety. i do not want to say we're more important than anyone else. we are as important as a commission is. others figure out a way to do their jobs and we can do it. let's just do it. we have a sense we will go forward and eliminate the second wednesday. we will end up meeting three times a month and to get from there. we can get this done. commissioner kingsley: you made a statement twice that i wanted to bring out into the open. we have canceled meetings because there has not been

anything on the agenda. it was for a lack of quorum because people were out of town but i have never -- >> i misspoke. perhaps it is better to say we have had meetings that have been remarkably brief and unnecessary in light of their brevity. >> that is fine. i wanted to clarify. >> any public comment regarding the police commission? deciding to see how it works with a five month trial period. it is in -- your input. >> i am part of the public, i am here on my own volition. the sense of empowerment, no one pays me to show up. i am a bit upset that no one really shows appear beside me sometimes. -- up here besides me

sometimes. i used to be a very -- until they started shifting the meetings around all over time -- town, different hours. they had sometimes 120 people standing and waiting to speak. it is sort of like a game of baseball. why football is less popular. it is down. i think one of the people that showed up here one day made a statement and i reiterated it. a lot of you on the commission to hear and pontificate on items over and over while you limit the audience the three minutes and go over 15 minutes on an item and they do not want to show up and listen to all that. to be cut off at the microphone. they can make their semen

because you're going on and on and they got their own lives and they're not being paid to show up. you have done nothing to promote this commission. i have given you 18 to 24 months -- get the goddamn community to show up. excuse the language. they do not show up because you do not know. you do not poster meetings six months in advance in various communities to make sure the community can be there. mothers with their children, i would like to see that. guys who got out of prison who showed up and want to say their beef. i do not really care. but for me to come to the meetings, and give an advocate's point of view is sometimes a bit silly. even the people come up to me on the street and said i saw you on the police commiio