keep us where we are. if we do not have four at the onset so we can get to two class is a year, and then sustained two class is a year to keep up with the 90 to 100 officers will lose a year -- that is why we have this tremendous, expensive upswing and then a plummet. it is not a good way to do it, both fiscally and in the experience of the officers. because we lose -- we lose experience, and then we get a whole bunch of inexperience at 0 anytime. just when we get back up to speed again, it wanes. getting to where we need to be would be optimum, however long that takes, with whatever the market will bear, and then staying there, at two class is a

year as minimum staffing, would be a great idea. commissioner dejesus: if there is anything we can do to help you, i agree with commissioner slaughter. we need to have this at the forefront with the mayor and the board of supervisors, not just with how many people are leaving, but the fiscal impact if we continue to delay it. chief suhr: i do not think it can be understated. in other jurisdictions, where they are down even more than we are, and all they are able to do is answer calls for service -- all the front end things we do to reduce crime long term, working with schools and nonprofit, in gauging with community policing -- as evidenced by the report we put in last year, that spare time the officers have to engage the public goes away first. then we do not have these declines that are sustained in violent crime.

regardless of the efficiencies to put in place, we do not have the people out there, in gauging the public that are talking back and forth. commissioner dejesus: i agree with you. but also hate to see us getting where oakland was, where they did not send anybody out and a person died, because they were busy and were not answering calls at all, at least non- emergency calls. i think we have to impress upon them -- i am happy to speak to the board of supervisors or talk to the mayor, or do anything. we need to physically point up the overtime, pointing out how much it is to drop it, and then how -- i do not want to say inefficient. it is an inefficient method to just bring in 200 to 300 new officers all at a when the time. all at one time. commissioner kingsley: chief,

the five-year plan you are to present to the mayor -- chief suhr: you have three versions of the five-year plan. commissioner kingsley: right here. i see. i thought that in addition to the budget, at a later date, you were providing a staffing five- year plan is separate from this. chief suhr: nope. that is it. commissioner kingsley: i see. ok. because this is an incredibly important topic. i thought we would have an opportunity to explore in more detail ideas and around staffing, as a commission. chief suhr: i am happy to do

that. however those classes get funded or paid for, or however, these are all the things the mayor's office is exploring, in deciding what might be a plan we could do. commissioner kingsley: i see. you and i have talked about ideas around getting academy class is through in alternative ways to traditionally how we have done it, and depending upon how this goes, maybe there is another conversation the commission as a whole can have with the department, in that term. thank you for clarifying that. the other question -- are we going to see a line item budget similar to last year? chief suhr: the proposal has been submitted.

it is tentatively with the comptroller and the mayor's office. it is probably 3 inches thick. commissioner kingsley: this is only my second go around with the budget on this commission. last year, we saw a line item budget that included not only the general fund in components to the all-over departmental budget, but it showed the entire budget. the same with occ. chief suhr: we would be happy to present a high level, breaking it down by salaries, with materials and supplies, similar to what the pie chart shows. we can do it that way. we can do it with whatever level of detail you like. commissioner kingsley: 3 inches might be in the region might not -- might be too much.

but you could give us an idea of the components of the overall working budget. chief suhr: we will have it for you tomorrow. commissioner kingsley: i do not know if the other commissioners would like to see that as well. i do not want to create extra work for the department in doing this, if it is going to be helpful to my commissioners. >> this is our first presentation of the budget. there were plenty of slide shows with a little more detail. i might ask that the captain not give us too much detail. we have already been to percentages of supplies and realistic. the bulk of it is personnel and fringe benefits. i think if you would like to have one, they can give you a copy of it. >> we can bring it to your office. whatever you want to do. commissioner kingsley: thank

you. i would find that helpful, to see a more traditional line item budget. but just sending it to the commission office is fine. it can come in next week's packet. commissioner turman: i do not think i have any comments that have not been expressed. thank you very much for your hard work. we have no class is budgeted. president mazzucco: this is my fourth budget process. the process always starts this way. we present a certain budget in numbers to the mayor's office and the board of supervisors. through the process, obviously the mayor's office is asking for a plan. the budget does not include classes, but they are thinking about hiring classes. i do not want to call it a

dance, but it takes place at the mayor's office. then it goes to the board of supervisors. the chief and the captain are veterans of this. years passed, it has gone with a message saying we do not approve this if there is not an academy class. again, i think it is unrealistic -- very unrealistic for the city to go forward without any academy class of this year. i know it is a process, but part of the process is for us to -- we are the police commission. we send a message to the commission about hiring. commissioner slaughter: i make a motion that we not approve the budget. commissioner kingsley: seconded. president mazzucco: public comment? >> before the public come in, i would add yet. i think what you have said, president, is accurate. but there is a process here.

there are no academy class is in the police department budget yet. but those discusses continue. >> i agree with that 100%. my understanding -- correct me if i am wrong -- is we have an obligation to say yes or no, and then it is out of our hands. but understanding was today was the day we say yes or no. i say no. that is my motion, as stated. >> and i think it is more of a sign or signal to the mayor and the board of supervisors that this should seriously be considered, and a budget without academy classes is not acceptable. >> the charter section does set after public hearing and approval. one option for the commission to express its policy preference

would be to ask the department to add in the class is to the budget, and then approve a budget that reflects what the commission would like to see in the budget. it would be not consistent with the mayor's budget instructions, but that could be a way of conveying the policy preferences of the commission, complying with your charter obligations. you could submit that in addition to the budget. commissioner slaughter: thank you for that suggestion. my preference would be to go with the motion a previously made. this is the reason. the mayor has asked the chief and captain to do something. they have done what the mayor has asked. we have been asked to say whether we approve or disapprove. i understand it is going to change between now and july 1, when it is approved. i appreciate that what you have offered is one solution. i think we have a clear understanding of what we want,

assuming the motion passes. i do not want to force the chief or the captain for a bunch of work to submit a budget we know the mayor has asked him to submit. president mazzucco: this is the process that takes place. if this is part of the option on the calendar, i met with the mayor yesterday, and there is no doubt in my mind the mayor's office is going to make sure the city is safe and secure, at least in terms of hiring. given the budget we are given, we have a motion and a second. commissioner slaughter: i would remind that my fellow commissioners that and -- that an aye vote is a vote not to approve the budget. commissioner kingsley: i think all we have is a yes or no vote.

president mazzucco: public comment is now closed. thank you. commissioner dejesus: -- commissioner kingsley: i think that i understand that by voting no on this budget we are making a statement, more than anything else. on the other hand, the department, the occ, has been given a job, as all the departments have. the commission has a similar job, to approve or not approve the budget. these are difficult economic times. the heads of both of these departments have done their best to comply with the instructions of the mayor's office. i think that we are all obligated to work within the financial constraints that we have. everybody has to do their share in terms of complying with what is requested of them.

i am not going to be voting in favor of not approving this budget, because i think that we have to work with the resources we have, and i think making a push in working more on the staffing issue and academy classes is needed. but in terms of the budget in the mandate for the department in the -- and the occ, this go around, it is my opinion the department worked very hard to comply with what has been requested. i think they have done a good job. >> commissioner? president mazzucco: this is for the motion to reject.

aye. >> commissioner marshall is not present. commissioner dejesus: aye. >> commissioner chan is not present. commissioner kingsley: no. commissioner slaughter: aye. commissioner turman: aye. >> it passes 4-1. president mazzucco: call next item, please. >> next item, item seven, a report in discussion regarding the occ's 2012-2013 and 2013- 2014 budget. >> good evening again. nothing has changed since i last submitted a report to you.

i believe you all have a report i submitted for the february 15 agenda. in that report, i indicated the positions that would be impacted, should these cuts be taken. the occ would lose 12% of its staff. two filled typist positions would be laid off. a vacant investigator position would be eliminated. at the end of five years, to meet the 1% per year 5% reduction in staff, the only finance position, a senior account clerk, would be laid off, and the occ would lose its language access in mandarin with

the loss of that employee. in addition, if the contingency amounts were taken, the remaining clerk typists would be reduced from eight hours a day to four hours a day. there are two senior typists and a principal clerk. even with our full staffing this year, we actually had to hire an outside contractor to produce documents in response. we would be severely impacted, should we lose any of these positions, in terms of our request -- in terms of our responses to federal and state court. a federal and criminal grand jury request.

the investigators would have to observe a clerical task, placing them further behind. it would be problematic to lose all of these positions. in essence, we have been asked to cut around $300,000 in personnel. i counter that the us ec -- that the occ needs about a million dollars in personal enhancements. i am concerned about the ability of the occ to do its charter- mandated work and to do it in a timely manner. of particular concern is looking at the city across the bay, from which i came. oakland and the oakland police department -- in 2003, when

oakland entered into a negotiated settlement agreement for its police department, one of the criticisms of the oakland police department was that its internal affairs division was severely understaffed. investigations were inadequate. quality-control of those investigations was inadequate as well. my concern, of course, is that, should the occ lose those positions, that it would severely hamper our abilities. the other issue that i have raised with this commission is to go back to the 2007 controller's audit, which criticized the occ and then made recommendations about ways the

occ would improve, have not been able to implement all of those recommendations, even as simple as needing $20,000 to do online complete filing, as well as to have a tickler system. the money does not exist in the budget. the controller also indicated that the occ should have an enhanced training program. the training budget has been cut to $5,000 for 35 people. unlike the police department, which receives reimbursement for some of the classes the officers take, the occ does not get any such disposition. with that, i conclude my report. commissioner kingsley: director

hexapod -- hicks, it looks like there is a new trend to present budgets in graf's instead of the traditional line item format. maybe that is a trend. i do not know. i missed the line item budget this year. is this what is happening in all the departments, they are going into a chart format rather than eighth line item, traditional budgeting? >> commissioner kingsley, i provided the police commission with our budget forms. we are required by the controller. the budget forms did have some charts in them. this is the practice that i have engaged in with this commission for the five years that i have been submitting budgets. commissioner kingsley: well,

thank you. you have a whole but click here -- booklet here full of charts that have segments to the budget. i seem to remember last year we got a different picture. maybe it was within the department line item budget. but the occ's line item breakdown was within the department. >> that is true. the occ budget is included in the police department budget. if there is additional information that i can provide to you, i would be happy to do so. commissioner kingsley: thank you. commissioner dejesus: thank you, director hicks. i think we need to be mindful of the 2007 audit. it was dismal. it was full of all these changes. we have made a lot of them. i was going to ask you about that $5,000. it covers 35 people.

most courses are $500 easy, if not more with travel and food. that is horrible. more importantly, investigators have 23 cases where i guess the average is 16 cases. >> the practice, according to the controller, a 16 cases. commissioner dejesus: if will lose one clerical and reduce the second clerical to have, they will not only have a house -- a high case of all, but no help as well? >> that is correct. commissioner dejesus: this is not realistic. i think all we can do is a yes or no. we cannot approve a budget in such a shape, especially after the audit. to tell our director she has to conform to the audit without any money or staff is a recipe for

failure. i think the mayor needs to be made aware of that. if it is just symbolic, and that is all we have, i would not support the budget as it is. i am happy to meet with anyone, if you think it would be wise, or said anything on the calendar. let me know. have you worked with and the board of supervisors individuals or someone who can carry it forward with us, in terms of putting in funds are keeping some of the staff? i do not know if you are. are you meeting with the board of supervisors? >> not at this point. quite honestly, when the board of supervisors holds its hearing on the budget, the occ is not invited to give a presentation. we are such a small part of the budget.

i have asked, and i have been told that is not necessary. i have to say that in past years, although i submitted these proposed cuts, for the most part, they have not been taken. we have not had to lay off individuals. however, we have had to eliminate vacant positions. at one point, we were at a high of 17 investigators. we are down to 16. i have intentionally left a position vacant to see what is going to happen with the budget. commissioner dejesus: and every time you lose an investigator, you increase the caseload. >> this is true. that is what occurs. commissioner dejesus: i understand that it is a process. this is still the beginning of the process. but i would say that we should not vote to support the budget as it is, with the proposed cuts

as is. >> do you have a motion? commissioner dejesus: i make a motion to -- how did we word that last time? to not approve the occ budget as directed at this point in time. commissioner turman: second. president mazzucco: public comment? any public comment regarding this? hearing none, roll call vote. >> roll-call vote. president mazzucco: aye. vice president marshall is not present. commissioner dejesus: aye. > > commissioner chan is not present. commissioner kingsley: no. commissioner slaughter: aye.

commissioner turman: aye. >> the motion passes, 4-1. president mazzucco: please call the next line item. >> line item 8, public comment on all matters pertaining to item 10, closed session, including public comment on a vote whether to hold i contend in closed session. president mazzucco: any public comment regarding disciplinary matters? hearing none, public comment is close. please call line item 9. >> i would like to comment on the budget, but i am not going to. line 10, i would like to know what is taking place. i would like it to be open. i do not know how you were going to vote on that.

i would like to be in on it. >> this is an attorney-client conversation with our council. it is a closed session item. >> then all i can do is take my opinion, which i have done. >> we appreciate it. >> line item 9, vote on whether to hold closed session, including a vote on whether to assert the attorney-client privilege with regard to items 10b and c. commissioner kingsley: so moved. president mazzucco: we are back in open session. can i have a motion whether or not to disclose the matterscomm.

president mazzucco: our next line item is adjournment. commissioner turman: so moved. president mazzucco: all in favor? commissioner dejesus: get out of here fast.